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I think a separate thread is best for that in that matter
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ATLA - 5-C Avatar is Dumb
- Thread starter Ayewale
- Start date
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I was gonna make a separate thread; I meant should I wait until this was concluded to make it.
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Oh, then yeah, it should be held until this one is finished
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Wonder what Ant would say about all this. He's on the supporters list, but the poor dude needs his vacation.
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The cosmic energy gave her the power to form that "Susanoo" but that is formed of her own spirit.
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That's something she can only do by meditating in the tree of time and connecting to her celestial self. Raava and Vaatu were born from the tree of time, so it makes sense that her soul being connected with Raava allows her to channel cosmic energy. Otherwise, she's not that level by herself. But anyway, this is derailing from the main subject.
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By herself she cannot make the susanoo but the energy on her susanoo comes from her spirit meaning that she had that level of energy on her base self just that she doesnt have the power to project her spirit to form that susanoo.
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Alright, so reading through what we have I believe we have agreed on the stability feat not meeting the requirements, yes?
I would argue the creation feat follows the same. No shared energy system to apply that to the chi-based bending. (or scale to other spirits for that matter)
Now the tides stuff:
I mean, are you arguing that the moon in Avatar universe has no natural gravity that causes tides? At that point we could debate whether we would even assume it's the moon is an actual celestial body.
And... if the pushing and pulling were not about tides, then the quote would not relate to the debate so...
I would argue the creation feat follows the same. No shared energy system to apply that to the chi-based bending. (or scale to other spirits for that matter)
Now the tides stuff:
To a vastly below High 6-A extent. You can't really argue that the ocean spirit's ability to boost the avatar's water bending is comparable to the natural tides.
The pushing and pulling part is probably referring to gravity causing tides. Since the spirits are the forces of nature, I don't get why you would assume the pushing and pulling is not by natural forces. (of course, for ocean and moon, not for the fish avatars)
I mean, are you arguing that the moon in Avatar universe has no natural gravity that causes tides? At that point we could debate whether we would even assume it's the moon is an actual celestial body.
And... if the pushing and pulling were not about tides, then the quote would not relate to the debate so...
Yes, but nothing that is shown there results in High 6-A, so the unnatural feats of power are not that tier.
I honestly don't understand what that quote is supposed to argue for. That the moon wasn't there?
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If that is your idea of a joke, you need to work on your delivery. You’re an administrator; act like it.
DaMonkeMan
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Probably shoulda worded it differently
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Not through chi, but spiritual energy. And the Korra series finale shows that Avatars are capable of bending pure spiritual energy via the Kuvira cannon feat.
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Thing is, the moon stuff isn't accomplished through spiritual energy from all we know either. It is just dependent on the fish being alive.
It's the unique relationship between the existence of the spirit and the thing it embodies that results in this feat. Not a spirit using some pool of spiritual energy it has in order to accomplish some special technique.
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With this line of reasoning from DT, the original upgrade does seem more dubious now.
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After looking through it more, I think I can switch over to neutral, leaning towards disagree. I say neutral because I still have my concerns.
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Does the spirit of the Sun exist in the Avatar? As I understand it, waterbenders are stronger under the moon because of the spirit of the moon. I remember Zuko saying that firebenders are stronger when under the sun. And during a solar eclipse, their abilities disappeared. So I wonder if the spirit of the Sun was claimed in the verse?
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The only reference to that is one throwaway line in the Rise of Kyoshi where she thinks to herself "By the spirits of all the stars in the sky."
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This is very tricky. I mean, on one hand, the moon is the moon, and if Tui is directly stated to be the moon, then that should be obvious. However, I'm still rather on the fence about whether or not Tui embodying the moon would naturally mean the GBE would equate as well. It seems more as though its embodiment is done through unique spiritual magic instead of actual AP. For instance, with MCU Scarlet Witch, we don't have her listed as High 3-A for destroying every Darkhold in the multiverse since she used hax. That may not be the best example, but how the spirits are treated makes the science of it debatable. I'm neutral.
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This isn't boosting natural waterbending. He created a wave, and she used her power to raise it to an unnaturally extent.
Anyway, we're arguing that all the tides are 'unnatural' regardless.
By unnatural, I'm referring to the fact that it wouldn't exist without the Spirits making direct moves to do it outside of simple physics. 'Spirits are forces of nature' is just splitting hairs, and I'll just keep referring to it as 'unnatural' for the sake of ease.
It's a celestial body, and is referred to as the fifth largest satellite in the solar system. We know from the Harmonic Convergence that the Solar System has equivalents to our own planets (the Earth has a ring due to Convergence stuff).
Even if it weren't, tidal force is High 6-A.
It is about the tides. The Ocean Spirit is the Ocean.
I'm just saying it's due to them, not simply IRL physics.
That the moon is completely different from your conception of the moon IRL. It goes blood red when the fish are in danger.
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Ok, I planned to show all the Harmonic Convergence stuff and look through more sources, but I've completely run out of time. It's been stretched way too thin between this thread and all the other stuff I've got going on.
Even if it's getting downgraded, I probably won't be responding anymore (probably only if I see another comment saying that the Ocean Spirit isn't the Ocean, and the Moon Spirit isn't the Moon).
Even if it's getting downgraded, I probably won't be responding anymore (probably only if I see another comment saying that the Ocean Spirit isn't the Ocean, and the Moon Spirit isn't the Moon).
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Asura, I agree with everything you said except
I'm pretty sure that the third planet isn't the avatar Earth; it's some other planet in the shot. When the exterior of the planet was shown in the avatar series finale, it didn't have rings around it, and during the HC during Korra's time, no rings were shown.
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DaMonkeMan
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Didn't they make Spongebob moon level for turning into the moon once
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He can move wherever he wants.
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DaMonkeMan
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Universe level actually
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I think this is rather important, as it means that Avatar Earth isn't in the same "goldilocks zone" of habitability that our same Earth is in real life, which leads credence to their Earth and moon being somewhat supernatural.
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I forget, do we treat the Avatar earth as being the same size of the IRL Earth or are we using the Pluto sized fan calcs for the planet.
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Came back for this comment because I knew someone would ask (not being mean, it's just curiosity). Using those Pluto calcs is a terrible idea.
Firstly, it's stated in The Great Divide that Ba Sing Se to the Great Divide alone is thousands of miles.
Secondly, the timeframe is wrong, and it takes 2 weeks alone to get to the North Pole even near the end of the journey.
Third, the Extras imply it has a Pacific Ocean comparable to our own.
Firstly, it's stated in The Great Divide that Ba Sing Se to the Great Divide alone is thousands of miles.
- GAN: You wouldn't be so calm if the Fire Nation destroyed your home and forced you to flee! My whole tribe has to walk thousands of miles to the capital city of Ba Sing Se.
Secondly, the timeframe is wrong, and it takes 2 weeks alone to get to the North Pole even near the end of the journey.
Third, the Extras imply it has a Pacific Ocean comparable to our own.
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All in all, the journey to the North Pole takes something like a month at least.
Episode 7.
Episode 7.
- Aang: Is that how you knew I was coming?
- Shyu: A few weeks ago, an amazing thing occurred. The statue of Avatar Roku; its eyes began to glow!
- Katara: That's when we were at the Air Temple. Avatar Roku's eyes were glowing there, too!
- Shyu: At that moment, we knew you had returned to the world.
- Aang: I haven't even started waterbending and we're still weeks away from the North Pole. What am I gonna do?
- Katara: He's right. At this rate, we won't get to the North Pole until spring.
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He does not say that. Gan states his tribe must walk thousands of miles to get to Ba Sing Se and part of that trip is the Great Divide. You can see the wall of Ba Sing Se from outer space
The same extra material also states that the walls of Ba Sing Se that you can see from outer space can be walked within a week. Which isn't a good distance. The show also has this line
Sozin was in the Capital when the Volcano happened and Roku's island isn't near the mainland.
The extras just say the Pacific Ocean is big, you would need to prove the Avatar Earth has an ocean of equal size.
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It's actually larger, since they say theirs has an area of 65 million square miles while ours is 63.8 million square miles
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They say the Pacific Ocean has an area. The episode itself never mentions a Pacific Ocean or any ocean name.
Actually does Avatar even have any named oceans?
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What relevance does this have to the point at all? What I claimed was that the distance is thousands of miles, and that's true.
Walking through the Great Divide takes a day, even with sleep and eating breaks. It'd contribute very little to the overall distance.
Ba Sing Se's depiction is hardly consistent.
In many shots, the outer wall would have to be hundreds of metres thick for the overall wall structure to reach that kind of diameter.
Roku's Island is a chain of islands relatively close to it. A hundred miles is a realistic figure if it's earth-sized.
Why would they mention the Pacific Ocean unless it had some relevance to the patch of ocean here?
It's certainly not the size of Pluto.
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Because this is what you said
The people came from the Fire Nation colonies in the far west. The trip was thousands of miles but the distance between the Great Divide and Ba Sing Se weren't thousands of miles.
Sozin was in the capital. What you're saying is that this is a realistic distance for an Earth sized continent that can be seen in detail from outer space.
The Pluto size actually comes from the Sozin 100 mile statement. Since that's the figure you'd get with that statement and the map projections from Korra.
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The fire nation colonies are opposite to Ba Sing Se on the Earth Kingdom, and actually pretty close (relatively speaking) to the Great Divide. So, the map would still be far larger (like half a dozen times, even assuming a 2000 mile figure) than the Sozin's Comet one.
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Yes, but if the trip is "thousands of miles" from their village to Ba Sing Se that line up closer with the Sozin map calc than Earth's planet size.
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