Asriel Dreemurr vs Prime Bolas

[ConsumingFire]

Asriel goes up against Oldwalker Bolas. Victory via Death, KO, or BFR. Fight takes place on Mount Ebott. Random encounter, so nether has prep.

Links:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asriel_Dreemurr

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Nicol_Bolas

Current votes,

Asriel: 4

Bolas: 4

Tie/Inconclusive: 2

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Asriel can probably freezes Nicol via Angel of Death, and he is like High 2-A, against 2-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Asriel can probably freezes Nicol via Angel of Death, and he is like High 2-A, against 2-A.

Nicol is also High 2-A. It just hasn't been changed yet, for some reason.

 

[Aparajita]

Mmm... voting for Bolas via intelligence.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

I don't think Asriel could freeze Nicol Bolas. Specially because the gap of power between Nicol Bolas and Frisk in pacifist route is huge.

About the versus itself. Is a close one. Prime Bolas already beat Flowey in other versus. But i think Asriel actually has a chance here. I would prefer to wait and see more arguments.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm having a really tough time deciding this one. Leaning towards inconclusive. Asriel probably has a bit of an edge in raw power, but Bolas has hundreds of thousands of years of experience and is a genius without equal...Hmm...

 

[Aparajita]

I'm having a really tough time deciding this one. Leaning towards inconclusive. Asriel probably has a bit of an edge in raw power, but Bolas has hundreds of thousands of years of experience and is a genius without equal...Hmm...

I'm not sure that Asriel will be able to withstand his mental domination, as Jace wasn't able to shake it off, and his telepathy spans the Megaverse at his weakened form IIRC.

In his Prime Form... i can't even fathom how strong it would be.

 

[ConsumingFire]

I'm not sure that Asriel will be able to withstand his mental domination, as Jace wasn't able to shake it off, and his telepathy spans the Megaverse at his weakened form IIRC.

In his Prime Form... i can't even fathom how strong it would be.

And even if Asriel were to freeze Bolas, his being frozen could simply just be an illusion created by Bolas in order to make Asriel think that he won when he really didn't, just like when he pulled it off against Leshrac in their battle.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Plus, I don't see any way Asriel's gonna get past Nicol's regen.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Ohhh man. This is a tough call. I'm inclined to vote for Asriel because of his ability to just.. annihilate the multiverse before Bolas can adequately react, effectively cutting him off from leylines of mana and reducing his power significantly... Yes, Bolas CAN regenerate from nothing, but he still lost that fight, and is reduced to a spiritual entity outside of the multiverse, unlike Asriel.

This would be different with prep time. Nicol with prep time would be ready to mindgame Asriel to death. With prep time, Nicol wins outright. No prep time for either, Asriel probably wins by virtue of going straight to Hyper Goner and Hyperdeathing out since he is functionally at that point in the same position, if not a better one, than Tetsuo, who defeated Bolas by simply cutting him off from the leylines where he situated himself on Medara.

http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Tetsuo_Umezawa#Champion_against_emperor

 

[Aparajita]

IIRC Emperor Bolas < Prime Bolas. While Prime Bolas, i thought he didn't rely on Mana Streams as he could tap into any of them at will.

Wouldn't Asriel also have to be prepped or knowledable about Nicol to even do something like that? I mean, instantly starting the fight off with destroying (one) of the Multiverses in MTG doesn't seem like what Asriel would start with.

 

[ConsumingFire]

This would be different with prep time. Nicol with prep time would be ready to mindgame Asriel to death. With prep time, Nicol wins outright. No prep time for either, Asriel probably wins by virtue of going straight to Hyper Goner and Hyperdeathing out since he is functionally at that point in the same position, if not a better one, than Tetsuo, who defeated Bolas by simply cutting him off from the leylines where he situated himself on Medara.

Just updated the rules. Neither character has prep. They'll be learning as they fight.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I'll give it to Asriel, since just unleashing his full power is enough to blow away a multiverse, and that would cut Bolas off from mana

 

[ConsumingFire]

I think the outcome of this fight depends on whether Asriel can effectively cut off Bolas' mana supply before Bolas destroys Asriel's mind and the souls he's housing.

But if Asriel is about to destroy him and Bolas knows it, which in all likelihood he would, Bolas can just go for a "get out of jail free card" by accessing a desired future timeline.

And wouldn't Bolas' instant death spells work on Asriel?

 

[Aparajita]

I think the outcome of this fight depends on whether Asriel can effectively cut off Bolas' mana supply before Bolas destroys Asriel's mind and the souls he's housing.
But if Asriel is about to destroy him and Bolas knows it, which in all likelihood he would, Bolas can just go for a "get out of jail free card" by accessing a desired future timeline.

And wouldn't Bolas' instant death spells work on Asriel?

He can actually access any desired timeline, not just future IIRC.

However, about his death spells, i have no idea. They work on the Eldrazi, so i wouldn't assume that Asriel would be above them.

 

[ConsumingFire]

He can actually access any desired timeline, not just future IIRC.

However, about his death spells, i have no idea. They work on the Eldrazi, so i wouldn't assume that Asriel would be above them.

Until otherwise stated, Bolas' vastly greater knowledge and 25,000+ years of experience earns him my vote. Asriel has the raw power needed to win, but Bolas' cunning and hax are just too much to overcome with power alone, IMHO.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

He can actually access any desired timeline, not just future IIRC.

However, about his death spells, i have no idea. They work on the Eldrazi, so i wouldn't assume that Asriel would be above them.

I don't recall Bolas' death spells (or anything) working on true Eldrazi titans. When did this happen?

 

[Northern_Wind00]

The ability to jump timelines matters little when Asriel has destroyed time and space, as he does.

 

[Aparajita]

He can actually access any desired timeline, not just future IIRC.

However, about his death spells, i have no idea. They work on the Eldrazi, so i wouldn't assume that Asriel would be above them.

I don't recall Bolas' death spells (or anything) working on true Eldrazi titans. When did this happen?

IIRC, the Elves were able to kill one of the (near) Titans, shown here, if i'm not mistaken, that's in the Rise of the Eldrazi, which is in the Heart of Zendikar.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Near Titans aren't the same as true Titans, though. All Eldrazi who aren't named Emrakul, Kozilek,or Ulamog are just infinitely small parts of one of those three.

 

[Aparajita]

Near Titans aren't the same as true Titans, though. All Eldrazi who aren't named Emrakul, Kozilek,or Ulamog are just infinitely small parts of one of those three.

It's a "High Spawn of Emrakul" according to what i saw on the Wikia about it. Don't know how well it counts, but weaker magi's death spells work on "High Spawns", then what should a supreme, god mage like Bolas do to something? Speculation

 

[ConsumingFire]

It's a "High Spawn of Emrakul" according to what i saw on the Wikia about it. Don't know how well it counts, but weaker magi's death spells work on "High Spawns", then what should a supreme, god mage like Bolas do to something? Speculation

Where did you find that info?

And by "High Spawn", do you mean something like this?

 

[KennethTL]

My vote goes to asriel.

 

[Wolfe1235]

I'd have to say bolas. He's someone you can't beat with sheer power alone.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

I'd have to say bolas. He's someone you can't beat with sheer power alone.

I very much agree with this statement, however, the relevant example of Tetsuo Umezawa's defeating Oldwalker Bolas in Magic lore by cutting him off from his mana sources means that by the nature of Asriel destroying all of the leylines in existance cuts Bolas off from his planeswalker powers and he can then be defeated with sheer power.

 

[Wolfe1235]

I'd have to say bolas. He's someone you can't beat with sheer power alone.

I very much agree with this statement, however, the relevant example of Tetsuo Umezawa's defeating Oldwalker Bolas in Magic lore by cutting him off from his mana sources means that by the nature of Asriel destroying all of the leylines in existance cuts Bolas off from his planeswalker powers and he can then be defeated with sheer power.

I thought bolas had access to mana that is stored in the gem between his horns?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I thought bolas had access to mana that is stored in the gem between his horns?

He does, I believe. Simply so it's impossible for him to be screwed over by another Umezawa incident.

 

[The_Everlasting]

So what does this mean for Asriel cutting off Bolas' access to mana?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Much, much harder than it would be otherwise.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Much, much harder than it would be otherwise.

True enough. This could be closer than I thought, though to be fair, splitting Bolas into a spiritual entity (as he is when he is existing outside of the multiverse), gives Asriel an advantage nonetheless. I'm sticking with my vote, however, if only because Asriel wouldn't TOY with Bolas like he did with Frisk.

 

[Wolfe1235]

Looking into it bolas has soul manipulation wouldn't that give him an edge over Asriel? If that's how frisk ended up beating him?

 

[Aparajita]

With Prime Bolas' peak time feats, he's able to jump into ANY timeline IIRC.

Shouldn't that mean Bolas could simply hop into the timeline before Asriel became Asriel and simply make him cease to exist? Or am i mistaken somewhere. I know next to nothing about the Undertale Verse.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Looking into it bolas has soul manipulation wouldn't that give him an edge over Asriel? If that's how frisk ended up beating him?

Frisk never beat Asriel, though. He rescued a few souls and then appealed to Asriel's conscious, making him eventually give up.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

With Prime Bolas' peak time feats, he's able to jump into ANY timeline IIRC.
Shouldn't that mean Bolas could simply hop into the timeline before Asriel became Asriel and simply make him cease to exist? Or am i mistaken somewhere. I know next to nothing about the Undertale Verse.

Considering Asriel exists beyond conventional time and also contacted Frisk on the phone before he even technically should have "existed", that's also probably unlikely.

 

[ConsumingFire]

With Prime Bolas' peak time feats, he's able to jump into ANY timeline IIRC.

Shouldn't that mean Bolas could simply hop into the timeline before Asriel became Asriel and simply make him cease to exist? Or am i mistaken somewhere. I know next to nothing about the Undertale Verse.

Maybe, however if Asriel is using his full power, then... idk, because of this:

Angel of Death -- A technique which automatically occurs upon Asriel using his true power. His opponent becomes unable to move, attack, use items, or do anything except struggle, losing all power and ability to fight back as Asriel tears them apart without any chance of resistance.

^That ability worked on Frisk, who is significantly weaker than Bolas, so I can't say yet if it would work on Bolas himself, though it is a possibility.

Looking into it bolas has soul manipulation wouldn't that give him an edge over Asriel? If that's how frisk ended up beating him?

Possibly, however Asriel could just as easily cut off Bolas' mana supply although like Azathoth said doing that would be far more difficult if Bolas has his gem, which I don't know if he does at this point or not.

As for how Frisk beat Asriel, I think it was due to soul manipulation, which is a power he has listed on his page. His option to "SAVE" Asriel could very well be it. EDIT: nvm, it isn't, since Frisk never has the option to fight him.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

My vote goes for fiction's most powerful dragon due to cunning, experience and hax. As stated above, raw power isn't enough to beat Bolas. This is an awesome fight to watch though, just like that Ultimate Madoka VS Asriel one.

 

[Macosten]

Bolas having his gem now doesn't matter because technically, now-Bolas is post-mending Bolas, which isn't Prime Bolas (thoug he did regain some amount of power thanks to his Conflux shenanegans).


Bolas and Asriel are both somewhat good at the whole Time thing, yes - Bolas was good enough at time magic in his fight against Teferi - a dedicated Time mage and student of Urza - to completely nullify his magic... AFTER the battle with Leshrac stole/weakened his mind-melting touch (thus, it wasn't even Prime Bolas). Take that for what you will.

I honestly think it comes down to mental integrity and adaptability, and by all we know, Bolas is probably more adaptable (as he hasn't been confined to ~the Underground most of his life and has millenia on Asriel age-wise, at least as far as knowledge is concerned). Thus, I'd give the edge to Bolas, but it's close.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

I honestly think it comes down to mental integrity and adaptability, and by all we know, Bolas is probably more adaptable (as he hasn't been confined to ~the Underground most of his life and has millenia on Asriel age-wise, at least as far as knowledge is concerned). Thus, I'd give the edge to Bolas, but it's close.

I do not think so, as Bolas' planeswalker powers dissolve without mana. Destoying all the sources of mana, including that gem (which it would, since Bolas is reduced to a spiritual entity outside of the multiverse, which is essentially Asriel's domain), is enough to completely cut him off from his planeswalker powers, IMO. Bolas is powerful, and yeah, Raw power on the magic scale isn't enough to destroy him, but Asriel is SO far beyond anything from MtG it's ridiculous. Teferi's most powerful feat is essentially reversing time in the multiverse. Frisk does this casually and automatically upon death and is utterly powerless before Asriel. Bolas humiliated Teferi in their fight, but Asriel annihilated Frisk, and was slowly ebbing away at the ability of Determination itself, which is a power that casually recreates the greatest feats of Teferi, creates and annihilates entire 4d Multiverses casually via Save/Load and allowed Frisk, a small human child, to exist in physical form beyond the multiverse. We know Frisk had a physical form because Frisk could still move their soul while the game was stating that they couldn't move their body. Existing in a physical form beyond the multiverse is something Bolas was never capable of.

The way I reason it is this. Bloodlusted, Asriel will go straight to the Hyper Coner option, annihilating all possible timelines for Bolas to jump to and all sources of mana in every possible plane, then he will unleash the full onslaught of his rainbow-powered death beam, the one he tried to kill Frisk with, bringing them to .000000001 HP with, AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN infinitely. All he has to do is destroy Bolas' soul to gain total control of the timeline, and when he does, he simply recreates the multiverse to a point in which Bolas never existed and resets everything like the god he is.

 

[Macosten]

I'm pretty sure Asriel didn't annihilate Frisk, considering that, despite dying during their fight, they just immediately revived.


Keep in mind this is PRIME pre-mending Bolas, not post-mending or post-Conflux Bolas. Pre-mending Bolas was very powerful.

Nicol Bolas has plans for everything. Per the wiki:

" Believing that it was unlikely Teferi and his band could forestall the imminent collapse of the multiverse, Bolas claimed that he had devised a plan to preserve himself in the event that happened."

If this is true, then yes, Bolas could in fact compete with Asriel.

Bolas's advantage is his intelligence. He will probably not be able to overpower Asriel (as Asriel will not likely be able to overpower him). At the end of the day, Asriel is an eight-year-old and Prime Bolas is a >10,000-year-old. Even with his experiences as Flowey, Bolas will still have a wider intellect.

Also, keep in mind that not all mana comes from land.


Though your claims now make me wonder: Asriel vs. Emrakul?

 

[ConsumingFire]

We know Frisk had a physical form because Frisk could still move their soul while the game was stating that they couldn't move their body. Existing in a physical form beyond the multiverse is something Bolas was never capable of.

That's not entirely accurate, as Bolas simply chose to abandon his (broken) body before pursuing Tetsuo, which was a mistake that led to his downfall:

The dragon had abandoned his body, unaware of the trap, and followed Tetsuo to the Meditation Plane, where he was killed by Umezawa in this weakened state.

^Keeping in mind that Tetsuo, as Bolas' champion, had an intimate understanding of Bolas' nature and tactics, and so planned accordingly. Asriel does not possess this knowledge.