Archie Sonic's Immortality Discussion

[ElixirBlue]

I just added that bit of Dr. Quack's character not assuming Sonic survived using a different means into the blog.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

wait so what im getting here is that sonic's immortality should be removed because he died several times in the story and his type 8 is more to outside help is what the OP said? And the other side noted there could just be immortality negging?

Sorry if im summing up too much been busier than i thought and vague knowledge on the archies side of things :V

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sonic hasn't died in story. His death was alluded to in The encyclopedia by Mephiles's actions, for a Sonic 06 tie in. Foney is using that fact of Sonic's death being stated in an encyclopedia as evidence against Type 8 immortality.

But Type 8 Immortality comes from his 1 Billionth Ring, not like Sonic himself is biologically Type 8.

"saw the death of Sonic the Hedgehog" is too vague of a term to accurately say what happened.

Ian Flynn has made a blanket statement saying that "Shadow the Hedgehog" is canon as well as "Sonic 06" is canon in Archie Sonic's lore. Due to how "Shadow the Hedgehog" was "adapted", you can't claim anything about how Archie Sonic 06 happened. Sonic's death could've happened by being separated from his 1 Billionth Ring. There are no details from the encyclopedia.

The only claims you can make is how the Sonic 06 story should have gone with Archie Sonic's established narrative.

 

[Foneybone1]

My stance is that there isn't enough substantial evidence to definitively say Sonic has type 8 in the first place.

Sonic's death(s) and the ring aura requiring outside assistance to perform a less impressive feat are to show that even in the face of potential evidence of type 8, it is inconsistent and still should not be granted.

At risk of sounding dismissive, Mephelis having immortality negation is both inconsistent and unfounded with seemingly its only purpose being to keep him from discrediting type 8 and it's only evidence being that we aren't told he doesn't have immortality negation.

 

[ElixirBlue]

That's why I'm saying the lack of information around Archie Sonic 06's death should treat the death as non-evidence due to it requiring game events to fill in the cracks of knowledge when the Archie Sonic Comic itself has vastly different interpretations on what "adaption" for game events it chooses to use.

Take Sonic Unleashed's adaption in Post Genesis Wave. Sonic Unleashed events were caused by the Worlds Collide Arc.

What caused Archie Sonic 06's Sonic death is unknown. It can't be used as evidence against Type 8.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Bump

 

[Foneybone1]

So what's the precedent on re-asking a staff for input?

 

[Greenshifter]

I think that's "Could you give input again since the thread is going nowhere?"

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Staff would have to read everything to gauge the arguments, including my blog. It would take a bit for them, considering how busy they tend to be.

 

[Greenshifter]

Also the only knowledgeable staff on Archie is Cal who's already here sooo

 

[Theuser789]

Ask Executor, he was the Archie expert even only being a calc member

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah yeah forgot about him although he did not really like to get involved with Archie Sonic, maybe his opinion has changed however or he'll make an exception for this one.

 

[Foneybone1]

I meant how long should I wait to ask again since I don't want to pester them. I forgot about Executor, I requested input.

 

[Greenshifter]

For a busy mechanical engineering college student? 5 years.

 

[Theuser789]

You should wait for at least 100 years, that's a good number

 

[Antvasima]

Dark649 and Sera also know much about Sonic, but the former is missing and the latter is tired of the topic.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

What is being proposed here? I don't have enough time to read all this.

 

[Foneybone1]

My stance is that there isn't enough substantial evidence to definitively say Sonic has type 8 and it should be removed.

I additionally put forth that Sonic's death(s) and his ring aura requiring outside assistance to perform a lesser feat are evidence that even in the face of potential evidence of type 8, it would be inconsistent and still should not be granted.

Most of my reasoning and scans are in the OP.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, Type 8 Immortality is Immortality based on an object that grants you Immortality. And I'd like to see some examples from the Archie comics.

 

[ElixirBlue]

And I have countered Foney's points and I have proven that Sonic's "death" (Only the one, as Silver's future "Sonic death" isn't a "Sonic death" as I pointed out above) at the hands of Mephiles can't be used as evidence against Sonic's Type 8.

 

[Foneybone1]

This is the only example. The object is a special ring Sonic has, but immortality is not said to be one of its powers and the comic never actually tells us it's why he came back, that can only be extrapolated by the reader.

The context for the scene is explained in the OP, context that does not support type 8. There is also context for an instance of Sonic's ring requiring outside assistance to perform a lesser feat, further showing his ring didn't revive him, because it wouldn't even be able to.

 

[ElixirBlue]

This is the only example.

Wrong and misleading.

In Sonic Live, Sonic legitimately got vaporized and survived. There's nothing to contradict the SwatBots that fired and hit Sonic wasn't with vaporizing beams.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Didn't Sonic get sent to some world where he was helped out by some kids to get back? Seems like a Hereafter case.

 

[ElixirBlue]

This is a world?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You and I both know that there's panels after this.

 

[Foneybone1]

I have already told and showed you that Sonic was teleported by the human's unnamed device.

Stop using that quote saying he was vaporized, I have said multiple times that that is from the Sonic News Network not an official source.

 

[ElixirBlue]

You and I both know that there's panels after this.

After sure, where is he now right after getting vaporized?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, you're intentionally removing context. That's like if I showed you this without any context and said "Superman came back from this so High regen," ignoring the fact that he got sent through time.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Again, you're intentionally removing context. That's like if I showed you this without any context and said "Superman came back from this so High regen," ignoring the fact that he got sent through time.

You are forgetting Superman has statements of being sent through time by Toy Man, when Sonic in Sonic Live doesn't have any such statement.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No he doesn't. Literally everybody on the planet thinks he's dead except for Batman, who's going through denial. From Lois to Diana to Lex Luthor to Lobo. The only person to know Superman is still alive is Superman himself.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It sounds like the ring does grant Sonic resurrection.

 

[Foneybone1]

It is a place, a place he was sent when the human's device started making random portals due to an electrical storm.

 

[ElixirBlue]

No he doesn't. Literally everybody on the planet thinks he's dead except for Batman, who's going through denial. From Lois to Diana to Lex Luthor to Lobo. The only person to know Superman is still alive is Superman himself.

2:40 Superman himself states Toy Man sent him into the future. Again, Archie Sonic is not given an explanation or statement like that in Sonic Live.

 

[ElixirBlue]

It is a place, a place he was sent when the human's device started making random portals due to an electrical storm.

Coincidence. There is nothing there stating the machine was responsible for Sonic surviving/being saved from Vaporization.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, the Superman example is not that Toy Man vaporizes things. But he has a canon that teleports objects to the future. So that sounds like a lousy comparison.

 

[Foneybone1]

Are you serious? It's just a coincidence that instead of returning to where he was like in 50, Sonic got sent to the same in-between zone that the human's device was creating portals through? Why does the comic need to explicitly say that the device was the reason he was sent to the in-between zone, despite that being the entire stroy of the comic, but it doesn't have to say he was vaporized and revived for you to believe it?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're kidding, right? Literally just watch the episode. The whole point is that Superman is seemingly dead. The only, and I repeat only, people who know Supes is alive is Superman and Vandal Savage in the post apocalyptic future. Not a single other person thinks he survives the blast. Superman survives because he got BFR'd. This is undeniably analogous to this situation, but it's space instead of time with Sonic.

 

[ShakeResounding]

To be completely fair, one favors Occam's Razor and one goes against it.

To assume the human's device somehow affected Sonic when there's no such statement is going against Occam's Razor.

To assume Sonic was simply vaporized when there's nothing left behind when the blast connects and isn't related to random business is what Occam's Razor favors.

Not arguing here, just saying.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty sure the Occam's Razor favors that the blasts accidentally BFR him as opposed to it vaporizing him, but cosmic shenanigans not only reconstruct him, but send him to an alternate in between world.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Swatbots can't BFR with their beams, Cal. They're typical lasers/blasts and whatnot, and Swatbots never had this ability with their guns