• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Archie Sonic's Immortality Discussion

Death of Superman is a comic title while "the death of Sonic" is a thing said to have happened, they're not equatable. Wasn't Superman being in a "healing coma" or whatever instead of dying a retcon anyway? There was a whole scrapped clone story, but I don't remember the details. Whatever, why would the encyclopedia say something as straight forward as "death of Sonic" if the intention wasn't for him to be dead? If it was trying to say something vague, why would it say it in such a non-vague way?
 
The real cal howard said:
That's like a half an hour read in which I haven't had the time because I'm a College Student
Click to expand...
Cal I legit finished it in a five minute skim because I didn't look at scans. Purely for the read to get the basic arguments. And don't pull that shit on me, because I'm a College Student too. You saying that doesn't mean anything to me. Either you read the blog to avoid wasting our time, or leave the thread until you do.
 
I don't know where you getting this "non vague" thing from. Since it's not a 1-to-1 adaption, for all we know, Mephiles got the 1 Billionth away from Sonic that allowed Sonic to be kill by him.

"saw the death of Sonic the Hedgehog" is too vague of a term to accurately say what happened.

I couldn't post anything for the longest time.
 
Bruh, you know I'm a mechanical engineering major, who's doubling with a frat. I have to balance social life as well as being able to balance classes at a top 100 school, which I'm struggling at because I procrastinate like I'm an early Spongebob episode. I haven't been on the wiki in three days before yesterday, as I wanted to study my ass off for tests I was still unprepared for. If you feel my pain, you'd want to die, and you don't want to die.
 
The story not being 1-to-1 doesn't mean we can add whatever self-affirming information we want into it. Mephelis doing something to remove Sonic's aura to make him vulnerable is a massive assumption and would be worth mentioning if it had to be done in order to kill Sonic. Not to mention it would effectively make Mephelis the strongest Archie character since he somehow removed/overcame Sonic's ring aura, something more powerful characters like Mogul and Enerjak couldn't do.


"The death of Sonic" is not a vauge statement, he died.
 
What are the summarised conclusions here, and are there any staff members you could ask to help out?
 
Cal hasn't stated his full stance yet, but I assume he will once he finds the time to read through everything.

I also requested Celestial Pegasus and Redgrave for imput when they have the time.
 
I hope they actually read the Blog. Foney doesn't seem like he did.

Because of that, I don't want to repeat myself anymore.
 
Theuser789 said:
you could repost the blog here with all the tabbers if people really try to ignore it
Click to expand...
Do Tabbers translate to the Threads well?
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
The real cal howard said:
Bruh, you know I'm a mechanical engineering major, who's doubling with a frat. I have to balance social life as well as being able to balance classes at a top 100 school, which I'm struggling at because I procrastinate like I'm an early Spongebob episode. I haven't been on the wiki in three days before yesterday, as I wanted to study my ass off for tests I was still unprepared for. If you feel my pain, you'd want to die, and you don't want to die.
Click to expand...
At least you take time off the site, better than me during exams lol.
 
Foneybone1 said:
The story not being 1-to-1 doesn't mean we can add whatever self-affirming information we want into it. Mephelis doing something to remove Sonic's aura to make him vulnerable is a massive assumption and would be worth mentioning if it had to be done in order to kill Sonic. Not to mention it would effectively make Mephelis the strongest Archie character since he somehow removed/overcame Sonic's ring aura, something more powerful characters like Mogul and Enerjak couldn't do.


"The death of Sonic" is not a vauge statement, he died.
Click to expand...
> Mephelis doing something to remove Sonic's aura to make him vulnerable is a massive assumption

The story states Sonic doesn't lose. That something making it so Sonic can win. It's not an assumption if the Story's canon states Something is protecting Sonic and Mephiles still was able to kill Sonic.

Foney, you are the one using Sonic's death at the hands of Mephiles as a counter to the story's narrative but your counter doesn't have any details behind it.
 
It even says "saw the Death of Sonic the Hedgehog".

That line doesn't even say Mephiles killed Sonic.

(Note to Staff who skim the thread: Archie Sonic games adaptation aren't 1-to-1 adaptations from the games. Ian Flynn says "Shadow the Hedgehog" was canon without any of the events happening other than Shadow's backstory.)
 
Foneybone1 said:
It doesn't matter if you say Dr. Quack is unreliable about meta-information just because he didn't know Sally was about to wake up,
Click to expand...
It was more than just Sally. Sally was just 1 out of many evidence I had in my blog to prove Dr. Quack is unreliable as Meta Information. They all mattered as one.
 
Foneybone1 said:
You had two pieces of evidence, and I talked about both of them.
Click to expand...
XD You saying that is proof enough that you didn't read the blog.
 
Theuser789 said:
Oh yeah, the Black Arms never met Shadow in Archie, Elixir is right
Click to expand...
The Black Arms still made Shadow in Archie, making at least part of the game canon, which is all that's necessary since all adaptations are "considered at least partialy tweaked, if not heavily". Them not retuning from their battle with the Xorda (seemingly due to Sega interference) doesn't mean Ian's wrong about anything.
 
Yes, wrong, Since Ian Flynn made a blanket statement saying that "Shadow the Hedgehog" is canon as well as "Sonic 06" is canon in Archie Sonic's lore.

Due to how Shadow the Hedgehog was adapted, you can't claim anything about how Archie Sonic 06 happened.

The only claims you can make is how the Sonic 06 story should have gone with Archie Sonic's Established narrative. Which is that Sonic doesn't lose. So how would you kill Sonic in that Established narrative? Just take away what helps Sonic win.
 
Adventure 2 was stated to have happened but we saw in Sonic Universe it happened completely diferent from game as well, 06 can easily be the same
 
You literally say, "There are two points that puts Dr. Quack's´┐╝´┐╝ reliability of his Meta´┐╝ commentary into question."

Your arguments that his statement was made in regard to a normally functioning Annihilator and he was only explaing why he didn't act aren't arguments about his meta information.

The Annihilator overloading (something Dr. Quack knew had happened) doesn't mean he was wrong about it's function. From a meta standpoint, his statement is what explains why only Robotnik stayed destroyed. Yes, he is explaining why he didn't act but he also says things turned out the way he hoped.
 
Foneybone1 said:
You guys can't claim Ian is wrong becuase the stories happen differently when he said the stories happen differently.
Click to expand...
Oh, I was saying you are wrong. Ian himself hasn't made any details to make us wrong.
 
Foneybone1 said:
You literally say, "There are two points that puts Dr. Quack's´┐╝´┐╝ reliability of his Meta´┐╝ commentary into question."
Click to expand...
Oh, that is my bad. Let me go back in the blog and edit in "an additional two points".
 
Foneybone1 said:
Your arguments that his statement was made in regard to a normally functioning Annihilator and he was only explaing why he didn't act aren't arguments about his meta information.
Click to expand...
Yes they are. Not by themselves but along with every other Inconsistency I point out, it establishes Dr. Quack's Meta credibility into question.
 
Foneybone1 said:
The Annihilator overloading (something Dr. Quack knew had happened) doesn't mean he was wrong about it's function. From a meta standpoint, his statement is what explains why only Robotnik stayed destroyed. Yes, he is explaining why he didn't act but he also says things turned out the way he hoped.
Click to expand...
It doesn't mean that he's wrong. My blog establish a couple things.

1. Does Dr. Quack have more Credibility on the U.A. than Dr. Robotnik, who made of reactions that go against Dr. Quack's statement about "Bio Data" only affecting those that are in the system?

2. His statement does align with Robotnik's permanent disappearance, but in those final moments, Dr. Robotnik made reactions that go against Dr. Quack's statement that originally sounded clear cut, as I pointed out throughout my blog.

3. Was Dr. Quack the right person to Establish a clear understanding of all the events?

4. Dr. Quack hoped. He prayed on chance for everything to be ok. Good for him.
 
Theuser789 said:
So why can't Mephiles have immortality negation then? It is diferent from the games
Click to expand...
Because that's confirmation bias. The story being different doesn't mean we can add our own ideas to it. We can't say Mephelis has a power on the grounds that we aren't told he doesn't have that power.
 
Because that's confirmation bias. The story being different doesn't mean we can add our own ideas to it. We can't say Mephelis has a power on the grounds that we aren't told he doesn't have that power.

I agree with Foney on this. We can't put "Immortality Negation" on Mephiles since we don't know what happened.

But it is because we don't know what happened, we can't use Sonic's death from the Encyclopedia that uses no details as evidence against Ring Aura.
 
This is not a reply to 111, don't know how that happened.

1. Does Robotnik have more credibility than the encyclopedia, which also says the Annihilator targets bio-data?

2. But then why would the encyclopedia repeat the information Dr. Quack told us as if it were true if it actually wasn't?

3. There could possibly have been better people to relay information (Snively is the only one I can think of off the top of my head) but Dr. Quack wasn't the wrong person given what he knew.

4. Even after he gained the knowledge that the Annihilator didn't function properly and overloaded, he doesn't imply things happened differently than he thought.
 
1. Yes, Since the encyclopedia is just regurgitating Dr. Quack's statement and Locke's without adding Anything new to our understanding the situation.

I've already said this in my blog, which is why I keep questioning if you actually read it.

2. Because it had nothing new to add.

3. I already explained with several different points in the blog why Dr. Quack was ill fit to give Meta information on why Sonic didn't resist EE. Resisting EE, not be immune by EE, to clarify again.

4. Dr. Quack didn't question his knowledge because he found Sonic to be ok, despite being at Ground Zero. However, since he didn't see the ring, he wouldn't assume Sonic survived with different means.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

y3p_owo
Feist upgrade & Archie Sonic AP revision
Replies
37
Views
2K
y3p_owo
y3p_owo
Peptocoptr27
Catching Up To The Games: Archie Sonic Speed Upgrades + Low 2-C Post Genesis Wave
2
Replies
78
Views
6K
Accelerated_Evolution
Accelerated_Evolution
SJG13673
Big Boy Al & Cal additions
Replies
12
Views
1K
SJG13673
SJG13673
koopa3144
Delivering the boom! (Sonic Boom AP revision)
2
Replies
69
Views
6K
koopa3144
koopa3144
Eseseso
Sonic General CRT
2
Replies
52
Views
4K
GlaceonGamez471
GlaceonGamez471
Back
Top