Archie Sonic's Immortality Discussion

[ElixirBlue]

Not very well or else I wouldn't be asking, but how about a different question.

How did Sonic get to the in-between zone?

Again, I agree the device interfered with Sonic's reformation, but I don't agree the device had the ability to be the thing responsible of saving Sonic.

"Sonic being revived into the in-between zone is inconsistant with the way he was allegedly revived in issue 50. The device sending him there is consistent with the story."

I do agree the device sent Sonic in-between zone but I don't agree the device saved Sonic from being vaporized. The device only made an accidental link -

 

[Foneybone1]

These statements are incongruous:

"I do agree the device sent Sonic in-between zone"

"I don't agree the device had the ability to be the thing responsible of saving Sonic"

So again, how is it able to do the former but not the latter?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Because Sonic's revival process shows he comes from "somewhere" when he gets revived.


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And I've already explained multiple times about the machine.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Again, this IS a consistent sub ability for the Ring when it comes to dimensions.

 

[Foneybone1]

The walkers brought him into their zone to test him and sent him back, that isn't evidence that the ring can send Sonic between dimentions on its own.

 

[Foneybone1]

Are you saying the ring aura brought him to some other place/dimention/zone before returning him to Mobius in issue 50?

I can't figure out how you believe both of the quoted staements to be true. If you believe you've already answered this I apologize, but can you please answer the question, how is the device able to send Sonic to the in-between zone but not also able to save him?

edit: the device does teleport Robotnik, Snively, and Sonic at the end.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think about the new evidence Cal & Medeus?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I still stand my ground.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am probably not able to try to help out here for much longer, and it seems like this will likely not be accepted then.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Nah, it can quite easily get accepted. I'm just one man.

 

[ElixirBlue]

"I can't figure out how you believe both of the quoted staements to be true."

I don't know what you mean by this.

 

[Foneybone1]

How do you agree that the device sent Sonic to the in-between zone but also say it couldn't have saved Sonic by happenstance?

 

[Theuser789]

Nah, it can quite easily get accepted. I'm just one man.

You are outvoted in both staff support and regular user support

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sorry, you are right. "Sent" wasn't the right word. "Interfered" with Sonic's ring Aura, makes more sense then "send".

There is a parallel in the story to the ring. Robotnik calls the portal, Transdimensional, with Sonic saying he was being transported through transdimensional.



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The walkers brought him into their zone to test him and sent him back, that isn't evidence that the ring can send Sonic between dimentions on its own.

Also, no, the Ancient Walkers themselves acknowledged it was the 1 billionth ring that brought Sonic to their dimension. And they were there to greet him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You are outvoted in both staff support and regular user support

But...that's what I implied

 

[Antvasima]

So should we apply this after all then?

 

[Foneybone1]

So with no explanation or visual indicator, the reader is supposed to determine that instead of just sending Sonic to the in-between zone directly the way the story implies, the device interfeared with Sonic's ring aura, which at this point can't even pretend to have revival properties? Two people saying "transdimensional" isn't really a paralel, that'd be like saying Infinite Crisis parallels Final Crisis because they both involve the multiverse.

So you think the act of collecting a billion rings, for no reason at all, sends people to another dimension, and it also just so happened to send Sonic right to the walkers? One of the walkers says he's being rewarded for collecting so many rings, and another sends him away the same as he came, why would our assumption not be that they brought him there to test and reward him?

 

[Theuser789]

So should we apply this after all then?

No, only Cal supports this while Medeus and most knoweledgeable members are against it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I sometimes forget the specifics of discussions due to handling too many of them at once.

You can probably apply whatever has been agreed then.

 

[ElixirBlue]

So you think the act of collecting a billion rings, for no reason at all, sends people to another dimension, and it also just so happened to send Sonic right to the walkers? One of the walkers says he's being rewarded for collecting so many rings, and another sends him away the same as he came, why would our assumption not be that they brought him there to test and reward him?

Can you stop trying to interpret what I'm saying? You are falsely assuming the meaning behind my words and I'm getting tired of telling you "no no no, that's not what I said."

The panel shows the Ancient Walker agrees that the one billionth ring brought Sonic to the Ancient Walkers's Dimension.

This is a fact.

 

[Foneybone1]

Since I just noticed this, Medeus was told all my points were countered with two being said to have been proven false. This is disingenuous as we both presented our ideas and support and neither yielded after much back and forth; all of our points are still relevant.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Foney. You did not counter THE FACT the SWATBOTS were using Vaporization Beams that hit Sonic and he showed pain.

Medeus's reasonings were not proven false.

 

[Theuser789]

Okay. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I sometimes forget the specifics of discussions due to handling too many of them at once.

You can probably apply whatever has been agreed then.

I think everything has been rejected by most people and staff outside of Cal, so there's nothing to aply

 

[Foneybone1]

Can you stop trying to interpret what I'm saying? You are falsely assuming the meaning behind my words and I'm getting tired of telling you "no no no, that's not what I said."

You do know that's why I'm asking questions right? I'm not declaring that what I say is what your saying, I'm asking if that is what you're saying.

If the walkers didn't bring Sonic to the zone they were in (them using the ring to do that fits the story) then the ring would have had to bring him there for effectively no reason.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I don't know the reason, I'm just saying that it is what happened.

 

[Antvasima]

I think everything has been rejected by most people and staff outside of Cal, so there's nothing to aply

So should we close this thread?

 

[Theuser789]

If you wish? This has been only Elixir and Foney arguing for months, so I guess that would be the best thing

 

[Foneybone1]

No, this should not be closed, we haven't reached any kind of consensus. Cal being the only staff in support doesn't matter when Medeus is the only staff opposed.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ok, we can keep going, but I have already countered close to everything in the OP.

 

[Theuser789]

Except Cal is alone while several members don't agree with this togheter with Medeus, and thus has going without a conclusion for months

 

[Foneybone1]

No, you have presented arguments. I could just as easily say I countered all of your arguments; you repeating yourself doesn't mean anything when I've also been repeating myself.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tbf only two staff members have responded. And lets be honest, we knew who would agree and who would disagree as soon as the thread began, and that includes myself. DDM agreeing is the only curveball.

Anyway, I still disagree. We don't see Sonic regenerating. That's a point you can't deny. If they wanted to show sonic regenerating from nothing, they would've done so, as they did so with Knuckles. We know Sonic wound up in another universe. That's another point you can't deny. Sonic magically becoming a Sue and reforming from nothing (because the smoke that would've been his vaporized remains still remained on Mobius) makes little sense instead of just coincidentally winding up in another universe.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But I did counter Silver's future "Sonic death" and have proven Mephiles can't be used as evidence. What do you mean I haven't been countering?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, for like the 10th time, nixing Mephiles means nixing immeasurable. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Cal, it was Determined earlier in this thread that the Sonic 06 adaptation happened but it can't be used as evidence against Sonic's Type 8 immortality as:

• there is no details surrounding Archie Sonic's death to debunk the 1 Billionth Ring

• Sonic 06 is canon as Shadow the Hedgehog is canon in Archie Sonic by Ian Flynn's words but the events of Shadow the Hedgehog didn't even happen, with only a short summary of Shadow's backstory happening in Archie Sonic

Since Game adaptations in Archie Sonic Don't reflect 1-to-1 game events, we can't assume Mephiles used the same method to kill Archie Sonic like he did with Game Sonic.

So it can't be used as supporting evidence against Type 8 immortality.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Then remove immeasurable speed. If a major plot point of 06 gets thrown out but a throwaway line about Solaris's existence remains, it's the epitome of cherrypicking.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Cal, do you understand what my explanation is saying?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yes. I do. And vice versa?

 

[Foneybone1]

You didn't disprove Mephelis, him killing Sonic does work as evidence against type 8. We are given enough details with just the encyclopedia to say Sonic's ring aura didn't revive him. They needed the Chaos Emeralds, if you want to argue that it doesn't specificaly say they used the emeralds like the game, it is said the "alliance between heroes and villains" revived him, the aura couldn't do it. We don't need any more details.

There is also that the ring aura required outside assistance to perform lesser feats like heal and unroboticize Sonic in Mecha Madness.

You also didn't disprove Sally killing Sonic, I stopped talking about it because A. proving type 8 in the first place was more prevelant and B. Mephelis is more straight forward. I even said that's why I stopped talking about it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Why does Sonic even care? If being rendered literally nonexistent is but a small inconvenience to him, why put up a fight?