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Arceus vs Cronus

LlamaGod1411

LlamaGod1411

1,204
98
In this thread, it is said that "Cronus vastly outclasses Pontos".

But this thread exists:

Arceus vs Pontos

And, the Arceus vs Chronus result was updated in Sept2016. While I don't remember the stats Arceus held then, pretty sure 1-2 revision threads were opened.

Not to mention, Arceus's powers were restricted (No CT summoning allowed)

So won't this serve to make the battle null?
 
Not this again, this match just keeps coming up, i don't think nothing significant has happened to change the results
 
^ Changes did happen, no?

Besides, even if the result was valid, shouldn't a note be added that Creation Trio summoning was not allowed?

Is omnipresence considered a State of speed? I always thought it was outside of speed. Hence, speed equalized won't negate it, right?

And still not sure on the Pontos one.
 
The Pontos one got stupid towards the end. And while stuff did change like the broken version of Low Godly, I don't want to change anything on that. Because it will cause a ton of controversy.
 
The creation trio are sort of irrelevant in this match as they can easily be one shotted by cronus, but if you want a note i don't see a problem with that.

Arceus vs pontos wasn't even added, so i have no idea what your point is there.
 
@Celestial

The OP states that the battle would be made unfair with the Creation Trio?

My point is that people stated that Cronus is far above Pontos, while arguing Arceus vs Cronus.

Besdies, I still am not sure how Omnipresence is negated by saying Speed Equal. It isn't a state of speed.
 
The real cal howard said:
The Pontos one got stupid towards the end. And while stuff did change like the broken version of Low Godly, I don't want to change anything on that. Because it will cause a ton of controversy.
Click to expand...
Really? Because I seem to remember Arceus lacking that back then was the only reason why he lost. Literally. Along with other hax like Soul Manipulation. If he had those now wouldnt it make it more even or Arceus could possibly win?

Though I understand your reasoning not to change it. It will cause a lot of argumentive flame wars. I learned that the hard way.....
 
In that case a note should be there then.

Pontos is only multi-universe level, cronus being superior when he is multiversal is kind of irrelevant when discussing a fight between 2 multiversal characters i think.

Cronus technique has nothing to do with speed, it's a technique that removes distance, speed being equalized is irrelevant.
 
@Celestial I'm not sure if you are understanding what I'm referring to, here. Leaving the Pontos thing for later as it will only cause confusion.

Cronus has a technique that removes Distance, so? That isn't affecting omnipresence at all, from how I view it.

Quoting from the thread, "Speed is also equalized genius, Arceus' omnipresence doesn't matter"

So Omnipresence doesn't factor in a Speed Equalied battle? How?

Besides, abilities were added for Arceus after the result, Lol.
 
?speed was equalized so omnipresence indeed doesn't matter, you don't seem to understand the difference between a characters natural speed and another character using a technique to remove distance thereby attacking instantly. And cronus can now kill ppl who can regen from nothing and has gotten resistance to a bunch of stuff.
 
To be fair, most of that stuff was already known, ignoring distance shouldn't matter to someone who created space, and I do think that it would be inconclusive now, but it shouldn't change. Besides I already voted on that thread, and just because I agree doesn't mean others do. I've come to accept that now. And also, I went from thinking Arceus would win to going to inconclusive.
 
@Celestial, that is the exact problem though...

Omnipresence is not speed. Speed being equalized does not affect it.

Removing distance still is not going to wipe out Arceus though? Not sure why you're pointing that out.

All the more reason for the result to be scrapped. Both sides got new abilities. Pretty sure no one would be willing to argue Arceus vs Cronus anymore, so that thread won't happen, most probably.

@Cal, so the result should be scrapped, Lol.
 
So what you're saying is that in a match between an omnipresent character, and one who isn't, even with speed equalized, it will not affect the omnipresents speed? That seems a bit counter intuitive when the entire point of speed being equalized is that it make characters have comparable speed so matches can take place, otherwise arceus speed blitzes cronus and the match is entirely unfair, there would be no point in the match in that case then.

Cause by removing distance it would mean he would attack first and all it takes is that to decide the match since cronus can ignore defenses and durability, whoever attacks first would win in this match i think.

I personally just want this match up to die, been brought up way too much.
 
@Celestial Hence, the removal of result lol.

Omnipresence is not speed. It is just a state of being. Speed Equalized won't affect it.

Yea, but Arceus is Omnipresent. Cronus isn't attacking first.

The arguments on the original one were tiring, yea, but the result is still inaccurate, honestly speaking.
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
,
Cause by removing distance it would mean he would attack first and all it takes is that to decide the match since cronus can ignore defenses and durability, whoever attacks first would win in this match i think.
Click to expand...
That actually shouldnt be true anymore. Unlike now, Arceus back then didnt have things like Low-Godly Regen to save him. In fact, his regen before this was absolutely terrible. Low Regen, which allowed Cronus to ignore everything and kill Arceus in one hit. Since Arceus had no way of reviving back then, this was the one thing that decided the match.

Now that Arceus has his ridiculous Low Godly Regen, if ever put in that situation with Cronus Arceus should be able to revive even if his defense + durability get breached.

EDIT: About the removing distance thing, I also don't believe that would work on Arceus now that I think about it. Depending on how serious we take this, there was one instance in the manga where Palkia's space-distorting was specifically described by Professor Rowan as "things becoming near and things becoming far" or something like that. Basically closing off distance but I might need to refind it to be sure. Anyway, we are already shown Arceus being able to casually shake off Palkia's space warping even in complete form and he made the concept of space anyway which can apperently remove distance. So if thats the case then wouldnt removing distance not be affective against Arceus if what im saying is the case?
 
^ I know.

All I'm saying is that the original thread did not consider abilities properly which made it somewhat biased. Due to which the result isn't really fair.
 
LlamaGod's request seems reasonable. Arceus not being able to regenerate after Megas Drepanon was the main reason he lost to Cronus.
 
@DaFritzi @Zexgen

The original thread literally had "Omnipresence is a state of speed, speed equalized, don't be salty".

^ Completely false. The result itself is unfair. Wish someone could highlight this or smth lol.

But yea, last thread went nuts.
 
Omnipresence has to be treated as a state of speed for the sake of speed equalized working as intended. However speed equalized does not take away other advantages that come with omnipresence like improved perception and other things.

However speed equalized is not the reason Arceus lost, Megas Drepanon was the reason. It would have been a stomp match without speed equalized.
 
^ No? I specifically asked people on this site that question. I got the answer that Omnipresence wasn't a state of speed, so speed equalized doesn't mean much.

And, I only brought up that example because there were inconsistencies in that thread.

Even other than those points, Arceus is sorta upgraded now.
 
Dafritzi is right. Arceus would have stomped if speed wasnt equal and even when it was it was a considerably close match at the time. But the only reason Arceus lost was because of Megas Drepanon being too much for Arceus to come back from as his regen was complete crap back then. But now with it considerably upgraded, I see no reason to believe Cronus is permanently putting Arceus down even with Megas Drepanon.
 
@Kukui

The Everlasting and I still think that giving Arceus Low-Godly Regen is too speculative and somewhat faulty, since your explanation amounts to the Original One placing his consciousness in another Arceus's body rather than regenerating the one that was destroyed.
 
@Kukui

If I'm not wrong, it was Lina who told me in the chat that Omnipresence isn't affected in speed equalized, Lol.
 
@Rep

Does it even matter if it is the same body regenerated or another one newly created to be exactly the same? The results would be indistinguishable.
 
@DaFritzi

But that's not regen. That's simply body jumping. It's misleading on all counts.
 
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