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Arceus Low 1-C Hax Upgrade
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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We're arguing if Arceus hax is 5D
We can't discuss Arceus having 6D hax which would be overkill for this tier?
Pikaman
He/Him- 6,525
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Wait for more input, DT’s disagreement especially is a gut punch considering they are one of the most trusted members on this site. Mods seem split atm, so just need more discussion to be had
“Blue Name” votes technically hold little to no weight in terms of actually getting stuff approved and applied
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If you guys have absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread besides derailing and making fun of the site/mods/each other then just stop.
It's annoying to see a genuine thread and user making an effort only for people like you to drag it through the mud and waste the efforts.
It's annoying to see a genuine thread and user making an effort only for people like you to drag it through the mud and waste the efforts.
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Can someone explain to me what's DT argument against arceus' dimension, like did he say "it was made for a 3D human to go there, otherwise it would be infinitely more powerful than him"
Like, what? For one the dimension is accepted to be low 1-C, that's out of the discussion, make a CRT if you wanna downgrade it, but like, what human affected it again? There is only one human that went there, the protagonist, which in turn only went there like, 2 or 3 times.
First time? All he saw was light all around, nothing pointed out that he could compreend it nor affect it.
Other times, arceus brought him there to fight it's avatar and the pokemon it brought.
How does a human doing literally nothing to the dimension in any meaningful way prove it is not 5D, actually that argument means it would only be 3D if that's the case, do i need to explain why arceus dimension, beyond spcetime, is not below a timeline's tier?
Besides the fact that it was made for it's avatar to reside in, not humans.
"Prove it has 5D poison" if the plate that brings out poison itself shares the same energy that affects 5D structures, it is 5D.
Like, what? For one the dimension is accepted to be low 1-C, that's out of the discussion, make a CRT if you wanna downgrade it, but like, what human affected it again? There is only one human that went there, the protagonist, which in turn only went there like, 2 or 3 times.
First time? All he saw was light all around, nothing pointed out that he could compreend it nor affect it.
Other times, arceus brought him there to fight it's avatar and the pokemon it brought.
How does a human doing literally nothing to the dimension in any meaningful way prove it is not 5D, actually that argument means it would only be 3D if that's the case, do i need to explain why arceus dimension, beyond spcetime, is not below a timeline's tier?
Besides the fact that it was made for it's avatar to reside in, not humans.
"Prove it has 5D poison" if the plate that brings out poison itself shares the same energy that affects 5D structures, it is 5D.
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- Thread starter
- #248
Sorry everyone, I was unavailable all day yesterday so I’m catching myself up of what happened here.
And I would know this because not only did I once bring up this exact argument in this threads case about higher dimensionality when it was argued and it was countered, and brought up that even verses like Umimeko, Marvel and DC also have cases of humans being in higher dimensions
But when I made a thread to specifically ask about this, others responded against me with the same thing. Ultima himself even.
So not only is this point on humans wrong, there’s not even a standard for it.
Not to mention, it isn’t as if the protagonist naturally went to Arceus’s realm of his own accord. Arceus himself brings and allows him there. So
That, and as shown in Hoopa and the Clash of Ages, Arceus’s plates possess elemental energy since 3 of them can use forces of nature and when Ash, Serena and Clemonts Pokémon used moves with the same type as themselves in the tower, they became attributed energy.
To add on to this point here, our site doesn’t even have one single reference or bit of explanation in our standards that humans being in higher dimensional spaces is an inconsistency in the first place believe it or not. It’s a common misconception that doesn’t actually do anything.
And I would know this because not only did I once bring up this exact argument in this threads case about higher dimensionality when it was argued and it was countered, and brought up that even verses like Umimeko, Marvel and DC also have cases of humans being in higher dimensions
But when I made a thread to specifically ask about this, others responded against me with the same thing. Ultima himself even.
So not only is this point on humans wrong, there’s not even a standard for it.
Not to mention, it isn’t as if the protagonist naturally went to Arceus’s realm of his own accord. Arceus himself brings and allows him there. So
This was precisely why I asked the question earlier on the universes shards becoming the plates. Because we know “universe” painfully obviously means the entire cosmology, and if aspects of the cosmology literally form the plates, on top of them being infused with all creation, that would be an argument to suggest the plates themselves would be physically 5-D artifacts.
That, and as shown in Hoopa and the Clash of Ages, Arceus’s plates possess elemental energy since 3 of them can use forces of nature and when Ash, Serena and Clemonts Pokémon used moves with the same type as themselves in the tower, they became attributed energy.
- 16,960
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- Thread starter
- #249
I’ll update the vote count in a bit by the way.
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Human Resources
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If you aren't going to properly contribute to the topic I will be deleting your posts.I'm pretty sure most of the executives are anti-Arceus.
That goes for any further derailment from any of you. Keep it on subject please.
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Stop derailing. If you guys don't start acting up, Imma have to report you. Had to delete 40-ish messages just from this page alone. Tf
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sorry mate, i was trying to hold some people down but ended up derailing myself.
Anyways what do you think of the CRT?
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I am not getting involved in a Pokémon thread 
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good choiceI am not getting involved in a Pokémon thread
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That would make sense. Creating a 5-D space with a 4-D spacetime in it, wouldn’t mean the spacetime Is 5-d.
CosmicWreck
He/Him- 674
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Argument from incredulity to be honest. Not only do we have no rating for the character currently, but just being human and still being able to interact with it isn't evidence for it being lower dimensional. It is a common trope in fiction and not really indicative of anything (like marvel heroes standing in the dimension transcending hot white room).
As for the thread, I disagree with most of the premises as they seem to not only deal mostly with avatar Arceus but also most of the statements are AP and not hax related.
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Thing is, not only does true form arceus obviously upscales from whatever it's avatar has or does, the point is that the same energy for AP is the energy of the plates that give it's hax, meaning they both can affect low 1-C stuff
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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arceus has gotten so strong lately and i think dt doesn't want that
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Well DT could be busy, i think is fair to give it another day before asking to apply it
Speaking of that, how will those changes look in the profile?
Speaking of that, how will those changes look in the profile?
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I'm wondering this too
CosmicWreck
He/Him- 674
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We don't accept Low 1-C Arceus avatar. The OP should have made it into a separate thread first before using it as an argument for true form hax as it's needlessly confusing as to which or even both agenda(s) is/are being pushed forward here.
Arceus being able to affect Low 1-C stuff was never in question. That's the point of being Low 1-C. You can manipulate 5 dimensional objects.
The point is many of Arceus' abilities aren't energy and thus AP related and as such, you can't say he can put another 5 dimensional character to sleep, or that he can curse someone 5 dimensional or that Arceus can travel across a 6th dimension (5th dimensional time) based on the essence of its plates because these abilities are not energy dependent.
They need actual feats.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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The point of the thread was to get Arceus low 1C range and AP
Actually they're energy. All the plates are energy based. It's the essence with the plates that source the power for everyone in the verse.
And Pokémon work off levels. A level 40 Alakazam will be stomped by a level 80 even if they use the same move
Same as in anime. Gyarados hyperbeam will overpower a weaker Gyarados.
If 2 Alakazams are using the same psychic power, the stronger one will outhaxe the weaker one
Then we have the god of the cosmology who holds the direct source of their powers. Being able to effectively negate everything in the cosmology.
Yeah, I see no reason why his power level won't scale to his hax based of UES.
He was able to affect his realm right? He scales. That's simple
UES, so no
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Depending on what the hax is, to manipulate a 5D amount of something. Problem is that there is no 5D amount of anything in Pokémon, except of Arceus pocket dimension. (and much less has Arceus manipulated something besides that) And that dimension doesn't even have spacetime (unless Arceus introduces a little bit of it in order to temporarily inhabit a human, which is not necessarily a 5D amount of it).
Yeah yeah, I'm terribly biased. I hear that from literally any verse's community I get involved in. (unless maybe said community consists entirely of LazyHunter lol)
Well, I would say you wait for this to get enough staff approval to get accepted or rejected.
And I have a life with stuff ongoing, too. Exams in case of the last few days.
Anyway, as for the debate.
Not really. Point is that we assume no level higher than what we have evidence for. Since there is no reason to create a 5D spacetime for a human (and we don't even know if Arceus could if he wanted), hosting a human is no evidence for creating 5D spacetime. It would be different if it were for the purpose of hosting a 5D being for which it would might a difference. Then it would at least be a slight indication.
You (and Kukui) are misunderstanding my argument.
Point wasn't proving that the dimension ain't 5D. It's about the spacetime in it.
The dimension is stated to usually lack spacetime. That's big part of the reason we even assume it is 5D.
Kukui argues that since there are indications that spacetime is in the dimension in Eternal Battle Reviere. And, to not contradict the essential "Arceus dimension is beyond spacetime"-argument he argues that Arceus introduced spacetime to the dimension only for the the purpose of hosting that event.
However, my argument is that as the human is just a 3D being there really is no indicator that Arceus would have needed to create 5D spacetime in his dimension for this purpose. He could easily just have created regular 3+1D spacetime in a part of his dimension for the human to have that event. The human is unable to notice the difference anway.
Essentially, the "dimension had spacetime introduced, so spacetime must have been 5D" argument falls flat as there is nothing proving that said spacetime is comparable in scale to the dimension itself, instead of just being something like a universe.
If Arceus being 5D doesn't prove his hax is 5D, then why do you think the plates being 5D would prove their hax is 5D?
You just make the argument that a copy of 3D hax something tier 1 character should be Tier 1, which was already conclusively rejected in past threads, but instead of doing with Arceus you do it for the plates. It's nothing but trying to scale energy amount to hax potency over and over again.
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@Maverick_Zero_X Since you are staff that already answered: After the further debate that happened what are your thoughts so far?
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I suppose since the site's standards seemingly doesn't support this upgrade, I'll have to agree with your arguments atm.
Zencha9
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no this whole thread would be solved if it had that
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Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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Well... They do
Pikaman
He/Him- 6,525
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I don’t get this part specifically, skimming through your argument (will read in full soon)
The plates are the essence of all of the hax in Pokémon, they aren’t even AP focused, all hax in Pokémon downscale from them. If they are 5D, then their hax is 5D. If a 5D entity is an embodiment of hax, it’s safe to say the hax in question are 5D. The plates are literally 5D hax materialised, and Arceus created them, and can use them
*Assuming the plates are 5D here
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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Usually.
Name the criteria for the exception because in Pokémon, I feel it kind of does
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when was the dimension said to lack spacetime again? I only remember the distortion world, while arceus surpasses it, i only remember hearing about it once and not even here.
Even if it does lack it, that only debunks the battle reviere part, which is just support, arceus still affected it's dimension with it's dimensional energy, it's hax, and thus the plates, are low 1-C, as they are all arceus' energy.
This is not scaling hax to attack potency, because arceus avatar is not low 1-C, this is scaling the energy he released as hax as low 1-C in dimensionality, and thus the plates scale.
Plus arceus space being part of creation and thus part of the legend plate's essence.
Even if it does lack it, that only debunks the battle reviere part, which is just support, arceus still affected it's dimension with it's dimensional energy, it's hax, and thus the plates, are low 1-C, as they are all arceus' energy.
This is not scaling hax to attack potency, because arceus avatar is not low 1-C, this is scaling the energy he released as hax as low 1-C in dimensionality, and thus the plates scale.
Plus arceus space being part of creation and thus part of the legend plate's essence.
CosmicWreck
He/Him- 674
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There are two versions of Arceus, both of which have two different keys and AP but only the weaker version is used here.
There are multiple powers and abilities that are not affected by levels or energy systems in the Pokemon verse, like status ailments and literally all of the examples I used in my last post so not only is this disingenuous but also irrelevant to my last point.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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They do actually.. Let's go to anime, as games isnt a good indication of this due to game mechanics
For example a weak Pikachu paralysis move will get stronger as they train
Same as they other hax. Same with a the other status moves.
A Nidoran poison status move will not have the same effect on a legendary as a venusaur's
No two paralysis move of the same species share the same potency. No two hax are the same
They train all the time for this same reason
And I'll repeat, all Pokémon are powered by the same energy that is imbued in the plates.
CosmicWreck
He/Him- 674
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Seems fine then.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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Why do you do this bro.
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