Arceus Abilities

[Reppuzan]

A few things on our page for the resident Llama god have been bothering me.

Low-Godly Regen: Where does this statement come from? From what I've read on forum threads, this constitutes the Original Spirit creating a new body for Arceus and inserting its consciousness into it. This would be the same as giving Darth Sidious regen for inserting his mind into a cloned body. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Resistance Negation: The reasoning for this comes from Pokemon Battle Trozei, a game with no continuity to the main series or even the original Pokemon Trozei, barely any semblance of the main series' game mechanics (as it plays more like Puzzles and Dragons and Candy Crush), and has no real plot whatsoever. There's composite, but it should still be done within reaso. If you're going to use Pokemon Conquest for this, cite a source and maybe a video to prove it.

Causality Manipulation: Where does this come from? There's no explanation for this.

Attack Reflection: Again, no justification, and he certainly doesn't learn anything like Metal Burst naturally.

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

Low-Godly Rege: Arceus' regen comes from the hikers stories. Whether you considered that Regenerationn or not is irrelevant to me.

Resistance Negation: The Omnipotent ability is where Arceus gets the resistance negation from.

It grants Arceus the ability to heal wounds between trades, strike incorporeal targets, see the immediate future, and ignore defensive bonuses and resistances.
	~ Arceus' profile​

Causality Manipulation: Scales from the Creation Trio, the mere aspects of itself.

Attack Reflection: Look below

 

[NeoZex6399]

This is the feat for which Attack Reflection has among its abilities...

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

Well I guess we have proof of Attack Reflection.

 

[Reppuzan]

@XBlackExcellenceX

I'm aware of the Omnipotent description (I wrote it), but given the fact that even Bulbapedia doesn't list out all of the abilities it pertains to, a little confirmation would be nice.

As for the regen, nothing in that myth implies Regenerationn. It just states that the spirit pertains lives inside people and Pokemon, with Arceus being the spirit's physical form. If the description said, "it will exist for as long as the spirit does inside people and Pokemon", I would agree with this interpretation, but it doesn't.

The reasoning for Causality Manipulation isn't listed on the Creation Trio's profiles either, and Giratina's profile is a mess in general.

I'll concede on Attack Reflection in that case.

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

I'm aware of the Omnipotent description (I wrote it), but given the fact that even Bulbapedia doesn't list out all of the abilities it pertains to, a little confirmation would be nice.

Nothing on bulbpedia contradicts the statements. But since you were the one that added it, you should know more than anyone else.

As for the regen, nothing in that myth implies Regenerationn. It just states that the spirit pertains lives inside people and Pokemon, with Arceus being the spirit's physical form. If the description said, "it will exist for as long as the spirit does inside people and Pokemon", I would agree with this interpretation, but it doesn't.

As I stated above, this whole subject is irrelevant to me. I was simply providing the source/proof. You should probably talk to Cal howard since he's the one that added it.

The reasoning for Causality Manipulation isn't listed on the Creation Trio's profiles either, and Giratina's profile is a mess in general.

Dialga's scaled from celebi apparently. While Giratina has its own feats.

 

[Reppuzan]

@XBlackExcellenceX

I rewrote it from its original appearance since Pokemon descriptions tend to be low-quality in general until I get to them. I've never played Pokemon Conquest and thus I cannot vouch for its veracity.

I'm arguing this since even Cal's description of the ability doesn't remotely resemble our definition for Regenerationn, which is accelerated healing of one's body rather than the creation of a new one.

Giratina's ability works more like a Voodoo Doll rather than a case of Causality Manipulation. Do you have any idea when Celebi made this feat? I'd think it's more of a time loop than a causality loop.

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

I rewrote it from its original appearance since Pokemon descriptions tend to be low-quality in general until I get to them. I've never played Pokemon Conquest and thus I cannot vouch for its veracity.

Well bulbpedia's description implies resistance negation. But it doesn't necessarily prove it neither. So I guess it can be removed.

I'm arguing this since even Cal's description of the ability doesn't remotely resemble our definition for Regenerationn, which is accelerated healing of one's body rather than the creation of a new one.

I rather not argue something I personally didn't add.

Giratina's ability works more like a Voodoo Doll rather than a case of Causality Manipulation. Do you have any idea when Celebi made this feat? I'd think it's more of a time loop than a causality loop.

Giratina's feats is causality manipulation. Not all forms of causality manipulation have to be "I'll snap my finger and you'll instantly die."

Aren't causality loops the same exact thing as a time loop?

 

[Executor_N0]

Well, about Arceus's omnipotent technique, when I played Conquest I remember that it allowed Arceus to deal normal damage to any Pokémon. That is, his normal type blows affected pokemon metal or ghost type with the same effectiveness that affected a fire or grass type.

 

[NeoZex6399]

@Rep

Dialga has as feat the fact of having brought to the life of the protagonist of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon conserving its memories although its timeline in which it was born had been destroyed.

That is, I allowed the protagonist to exist without the need for a past or a birth ...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I think Cal should have a say about this. And no, if theres nothing disproving/proving it, "Possibly/Likely" could do rather then delete it all together.

 

[Reppuzan]

Not in the slightest.

Causality loops force the laws of cause and effect to loop into each other, forcing things to go exactly the way they did before. (Giorno Giovanna's Gold Experience Requiem is a very good example of this).

Time loops work by forcing time to repeat itself (think a Groundhog Day episode) but does not necessarily force the same series of events to happen as they did the time before (Yoshikage Kira's Bites the Dust is an example of this).

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

Well, about Arceus's omnipotent technique, when I played Conquest I remember that it allowed Arceus to deal normal damage to any Pokémon. That is, his normal type blows affected pokemon metal or ghost type with the same effectiveness that affected a fire or grass type.

That's exactly what resistance Negation is.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well, about Arceus's omnipotent technique, when I played Conquest I remember that it allowed Arceus to deal normal damage to any Pokémon. That is, his normal type blows affected pokemon metal or ghost type with the same effectiveness that affected a fire or grass type.

Actually now that I think about it, arent there normal pokemon moves that allow a certain type to hit another when normally that isnt the case? For example Embargo or something that lets normal moves hit ghost types.

 

[Reppuzan]

@ProfessorKukui4Life

You're thinking of Foresight and Odor Sleuth.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Repp. It comes from Dialga having time abilities that makes Celebi look laughable. And Celebi has causality manipulation and acausality. And yes, OBD considers the "Celebi s*** in the 4th movie" as they put it Causality Maipulation

 

[XBlackExcellenceX]

Not in the slightest.

Causality loops force the laws of cause and effect to loop into each other, forcing things to go exactly the way they did before. (Giorno Giovanna's Gold Experience Requiem is a very good example of this).

Time loops work by forcing time to repeat itself (think a Groundhog Day episode) but does not necessarily force the same series of events to happen as they did the time before.

So they're similar but not identical? Ok

Even so, a strong control over time can affect causality (Maxine Cauldfield of example). Celebi seems to be the same case and Dialga's control over time is obviously superior to Celebi.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

Time abilities don't always correlate to causality abilities cal. Otherwise every Time Manipulation user would be able to manipulate Cause and Effect.

 

[Kaltias]

Creating a new body when only the soul remains is low-godly regen. The difference whit Sidius is that Arceus is actually recreating said body, it isn't possessing one that already exists. And every "godly" Regenerationn requires the creation of a new body out of nowhere anyway.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kaltias

The myth makes no mention of Arceus recreating a new body for itself. This is an assumption everyone made based on vaguely similar statements.

 

[Kaltias]

Oh, i'm not saying that Arceus has it, i'm not up to date with pokemon lore. I was just explaining the difference with Sidious

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'm not hoping for a big debate here, but do you think you are being a little too harsh on Arceus Reppu? I'm not gonna be involved here, but you guys should ask DT about this.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dragon

Maybe, but I'd prefer it if we had solid evidence rather than throwing abilities on a profile with little rhyme or reason. Ever and I have discussed this and there are few characters we've been so generous to in terms of powers and the Pokemon pages tend to be a mess even after Staff members get to them.

It's our job to be as accurate as possible. If that means getting rough and forcing people to cough up evidence after hundreds of posts, so be it.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Causality Manipulation:

Dialga brought the protagonist back to life ignoring that his timeline in which he was born was totally destroyed.

That is, Dialga allowed the protagonist to exist without a past or birth.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Neo

How does that affect Arceus tho? What Dialga can do =/= what Arceus can do.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NeoZex

Was this also a Pokemon Conquest feat? Or did it come from Mystery Dungeon?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Neo
How does that affect Arceus tho? What Dialga can do =/= what Arceus can do.

IIRC, all of the creation trios abilities are pretty much scaled to Arceus.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I'm 99% sure that's not how scaling works.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Reppu I'll leave it at that. Let Azzy and DT know about this. That would be best.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Because Dialga is only a mere aspect of Arceus...

And also because he did the same with Grovyle and Dusknoir in the special episode.

 

[NeoZex6399]

@Rep

Mystery Dungeon.

 

[The_Everlasting]

We've never made it a thing where a creator gets all the powers of his creations.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There are certain cases where thats allowed I believe. Arceus and the creation trio are a special case.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NeoZex

Bringing someone back from a timeline that was destroyed is not a Causality Manipulation feat, it's simply a Reality Warping feat. Causality Manipulation requires the manipulation of cause and effect.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Kukui

No, it's never been a case.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That has definitely been a thing, and likely always has been one. I don't know where this is coming from, Ever.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
No, it's never been a case.

Not what im told. There are characters other than Arceus who currently have all abilities from a verse due either creating them or directly developing them. But im gonna let Cal, Azzy or someone else comment on this.

@Rep, how is that reality warping? Bringing back someone from an erased timeline they were born in would be manipulating cause and effect. The cause of erasing the timeline would bring the effect of erasing the one who came from said timeline. Sounds like Casuality Manipulation to me or enforcing Acasuality onto someone.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I've literally never seen a creator deity besides Arceus who is given all the powers of his creations.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

We don't give Digimon's God the Alpha InForce, nor do we give Aesir Witch Time/Light Speed, nor do we provide Chaos with the powers of every Olympian and Titan.

There is no equivalence.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

Plucking someone from a timeline does not mean Causality Manipulation. All one needs is knowledge of the previous timeline's existence (which Arceus is more than capable of) to effectively wish them back.