Arale VS Ghost Emperor Yama: Battle For First Place (4-C)

[Ss3micah]

how is her plot erasure passive again?
didn't she need to cut the animation wheel to do it

That Variant isn't passive
The one that is has to do with just outright ending the plot which can happen by arale simply just appearing on screen

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

if its passive then all animation that involves here will end the moment the animation starts

that's not how it happens
so that's not passive at all

 

[Ss3micah]

Other characters reviving you is technically outside help, not to mention how she actually doesn't have immortality (Type 8) on her profile for this...

Its not exactly Immortal Type 8 but functions like it
Maybe I should get it registered as Type 8 next time around

Not sure why you're focusing on this. Death as in, all his passives, especially his laws...

Because normally you cant death hax IP2 Beings without feats of your power doing so
Also can you explain that a bit more for me?

It isn't BFR, it's removing the battlefield altogether, which isn't an incap, or else characters that multiversal passives enough to destroy low 2-C structures would BFR both each other by your logic, since the battlefield no longer exists.

Meh, guess thats true

I know it sounds ridiculous lol. Any time someone is being absorbed or destroyed, sometimes the laws they hold within them is mentioned like this.

Huuuuhhhhhhh?????

Not to mention at a higher level, your bones are literal laws. Not even right to refer to them as bones.

Okay seriously what????
Isn't this a verse specific thing like with Bleach and with souls or whatever?
Well Whatevs I guess

 

[Ss3micah]

Im confused now
Can we go back to arguing each others Wincons????
And see how that stack against each other

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Passive vs Passive, a classic matchup that always ends up in an inconclusive.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Its not exactly Immortal Type 8 but functions like it
Maybe I should get it registered as Type 8 next time around

Which is something you should actually add, you know, right now. Since it's the only thing that will bring her back it seems.

Because normally you cant death hax IP2 Beings without feats of your power doing so
Also can you explain that a bit more for me?

His death manipulation and his darkness manipulation is an extension of his devilish energy that can affect you whether you're alive or not, even if you're non-existent (Type 1). It isn't a 'you die' type of passive, it's if you come into contact with his devilish energy and well, 4KM is too small to avoid it.

As for his darkness manipulation...It's basically sensory deprivation, it doesn't allow light of any kind to shine, in-fact, light itself retreats on it's own from it. It is also space-time manipulation by locking down a specific area. So basically useless in most fights, especially in SM where you can make space part for you.

Those passives were not even why I said it's a stomp. It's because of his law manipulation, unless you're saying non-tier 1 stuff can affect her (I was under the impression she had passive 4D plot protection of some sort). Also, I don't really have a reason to not say why all his passives aren't backed by his laws...But if you read the verse, it leans more towards it being a conscious act.

She is up against someone who was stated to be in control of countless laws, being immobile, being crushed out of existence is just the start of his passive law manipulation. Followed by the laws of space, time, death, life, law of duality, etc... Which is all contained within his domain.

Huuuuhhhhhhh?????

Okay seriously what????
Isn't this a verse specific thing like with Bleach and with souls or whatever?
Well Whatevs I guess

LMAO. Basically my reaction towards half the things in the verse.

 

[Ss3micah]

if its passive then all animation that involves here will end the moment the animation starts

that's not how it happens
so that's not passive at all

Its Passive in the sense that Arale can make it happen without thought, input, command or gesture
If thats not passive then what would you call it then?

Also your pretty much arguing CIS now because many characters (example Anos) has many passives but never starts with them or even uses them in a fight on multiple occasions. According to SBA characters are willing to win so thats the reason they would start with them rather than wait to use them
Rimuru has aura passives too but you dont see him killing everyone around him by just walking around on the regular.

Which is something you should actually add, you know, right now. Since it's the only thing that will bring her back it seems.

Mehhhh
I'll add it later
I was planning on massively upgrading her soon (SPOILERS AS TO WHAT HEHE) but you gave me a heart attack when you sprung this on me in the morning LOLOLOLOLOL

His death manipulation and his darkness manipulation is an extension of his devilish energy that can affect you whether you're alive or not, even if you're non-existent (Type 1). It isn't a 'you die' type of passive, it's if you come into contact with his devilish energy and well, 4KM is too small to avoid it.

I mean sure, I guess that would do the job
Although Jury is still out on how you kill a Robot Lolol

As for his darkness manipulation...It's basically sensory deprivation, it doesn't allow light of any kind to shine, in-fact, light itself retreats on it's own from it. It is also space-time manipulation by locking down a specific area. So basically useless in most fights, especially in SM where you can make space part for you.

She has Causality Manipulation by herself and with her Equipment that pretty much works like GER so that would counter that I suppose

Those passives were not even why I said it's a stomp. It's because of his law manipulation, unless you're saying non-tier 1 stuff can affect her (I was under the impression she had passive 4D plot protection of some sort). Also, I don't really have a reason to not say why all his passives aren't backed by his laws...But if you read the verse, it leans more towards it being a conscious act.

I mean she has passives that can actively affect the plot. She can also change the entire story and just have Null Yama or change his design into poop or remove aspects of his character that would make him want to stay and fight

She is up against someone who was stated to be in control of countless laws, being immobile, being crushed out of existence is just the start of his passive law manipulation. Followed by the laws of space, time, death, life, law of duality, etc... Which is all contained within his domain.

Duality you say???
Hmmm
Muchacho you should give him Transduality Lololol

Anyways Jks aside
Even he managed to kill arale I still dont see why she can just plot herself back into existence. You say his law manipulation would prevent/deny that and I wont say no
What I have issue with is that Law Manipulation while it definitely has the potency lacks the abstractness and range

LMAO. Basically my reaction towards half the things in the verse.

Chinese Verses are TOUGH!!! NGL
But thats what makes it interesting
Its amazing how this has lasted so long despite it being 4-D Hax vs 5-D/9-D Hax
Lololololol

 

[Ss3micah]

I feel sorry for the Captain knowing this the BEAST he's gonna have to face sooner or later



Muchacho you are Evil

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

nah. its already too obvious which one will win. top 5 strongest assume their strongest so the possibly 9D is basically he's 9D not 5D

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

also if his 5D nature is on physiology like his bone is law and law hax is 5D
Yama shouldn't be at 4-C and should be at low 1-C
since his bone is already physically 5D at that point

 

[Ss3micah]

nah. its already too obvious which one will win. top 5 strongest assume their strongest so the possibly 9D is basically he's 9D not 5D

Jedi I dont know why but I just LOVE debating thats why Im continuing this right now
Im enjoying every moment of this and laughing hard right now

 

[Ss3micah]

also if his 5D nature is on physiology like his bone is law and law hax is 5D
Yama shouldn't be at 4-C and should be at low 1-C
since his phone is already physically 5D at that point

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

But in all seriousness Jedi has a point

Also you just made my day

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I mean sure, I guess that would do the job
Although Jury is still out on how you kill a Robot Lolol

The same could be said about the sun, the moon, the air his devilish energy can affect, but that non-tier 1 passive isn't the focus.

She has Causality Manipulation by herself and with her Equipment that pretty much works like GER so that would counter that I suppose

Passive? Then she can probably deal with most of his passives, not including his subjective reality, paralysis, powernull and law manipulation.

I mean she has passives that can actively affect the plot. She can also change the entire story and just have Null Yama or change his design into poop or remove aspects of his character that would make him want to stay and fight

She might have passive to kill him and powernull him, but never his laws, so...

Duality you say???
Hmmm
Muchacho you should give him Transduality Lololol

LOL. The law of duality is a concept and a law they can manipulate.

Even he managed to kill arale I still dont see why she can just plot herself back into existence. You say his law manipulation would prevent/deny that and I wont say no
What I have issue with is that Law Manipulation while it definitely has the potency lacks the abstractness and range

Let's remove her plot manipulation, any move of his would kill her and prevents her comeback. It's basic negation at his level and above. Let's add her plot manipulation, It's the tier 1 nature that negates her 4D.

Also, like I said before, their range is never the issue. I can update his profile right now to scale from a previous CRT he would scale to...But then again, it isn't even accurate for the verse's logic.

Chinese Verses are TOUGH!!! NGL
But thats what makes it interesting
Its amazing how this has lasted so long despite it being 4-D Hax vs 5-D/9-D Hax
Lololololol

If you think Yama is tough, wait till you see the profile I make for that tier.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

also if his 5D nature is on physiology like his bone is law and law hax is 5D
Yama shouldn't be at 4-C and should be at low 1-C
since his bone is already physically 5D at that point

I said "at a higher level", not his level.

Not to mention at a higher level, your bones are literal laws.

 

[Ss3micah]

The same could be said about the sun, the moon, the air his devilish energy can affect, but that non-tier 1 passive isn't the focus.

I mean technically you cant equate them to robots. One operates on Data and Information and the other operates on some kind of vague AF sentience depending on what Mythological Texts you consult

Passive? Then she can probably deal with most of his passives, not including his subjective reality, paralysis, powernull and law manipulation.

How do those work?

She might have passive to kill him and powernull him, but never his laws, so...

Yeah 4-D Plot Power Null working on 9-D Laws?
Even I'll admits thats insane
She would at least be able to stop a variety of his hax though
And if she redesigns him as Poop or Removes his characters aspects that would make him want to fight then thats probably a GG... maybe

LOL. The law of duality is a concept and a law they can manipulate.

OH GREAT!!!!

Let's remove her plot manipulation, any move of his would kill her and prevents her comeback. It's basic negation at his level and above. Let's add her plot manipulation, It's the tier 1 nature that negates her 4D.

I mean I get what your saying and I will admit it has strings of validity
My concern is just that he would be haxing nothing. She can literally just not exist and use her plot hax to exist and to stop her from doing that his laws would basically have to be affecting nothing
And Tier 1 doesn't mean you can kill hax IS DEADLY but thats doesnt mean it can stop lower hax from working

For Example: Tier 1-A EE that erases body, mind and soul wouldnt stop someone who is Tier 5-A with HGR from coming back now would it?

And then my next Issue is Range. Muchacho you need to upgrade the guy's rannge because characters can have smurf potency but lack equivalent smurf range
If he has it then get it on his profile, if he doesn't (which he currently doesn't) how can you say his Law Hax can reach beyond the 4th wall which she can just Plot Hax herself from?

Also, like I said before, their range is never the issue. I can update his profile right now to scale from a previous CRT he would scale to...But then again, it isn't even accurate for the verse's logic.

Oh nvm my range comment then
Although you REALLY should do so for transparency's sake

 

[Ss3micah]

I said "at a higher level", not his level.

also if his 5D nature is on physiology like his bone is law and law hax is 5D
Yama shouldn't be at 4-C and should be at low 1-C
since his bone is already physically 5D at that point

JEDI YOU ARE IN TROUBLE NOW

 

[Ss3micah]

Alright Muchacho
Lets say they both start and they both kill each other at the same time
Yama throws LAW AND ORDERS theme song at Arale and Arale removes Yama from the Narrative because he looks Ugly
And lets say Arale CANT plot herself back into existence
What can Yama do after Narrative Erasure bites him

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I mean technically you cant equate them to robots. One operates on Data and Information and the other operates on some kind of vague AF sentience depending on what Mythological Texts you consult

I meant in in a physical sense. If you want to talk about data and info, he has data and info interaction on his profile BTW.

How do those work?

Powernull: The powernull is his domain, she can't use causality manipulation because it will get nulled. The powernull is also through his laws.
Subjective reality: She might as well be fictional in his domain. Within it, he can anything he can think of and you can't get past it without having more layers or well 4D manipulation in this case but this is regarding her causality manipulation.
Paralysis: It is through his domain and laws
Law manipulation: You know lol.

And if she redesigns him as Poop or Removes his characters aspects that would make him want to fight then thats probably a GG... maybe

Yeah, his non-tier 1 hax isn't doing anything against her plot manipulation. Anyways, she dies immediately though, unless you mean this is passive and even then, it's passive vs passive and they both died, which doesn't matter for him since he comes back and she doesn't, unless you have that writer thing added.

I mean I get what your saying and I will admit it has strings of validity
My concern is just that he would be haxing nothing. She can literally just not exist and use her plot hax to exist and to stop her from doing that his laws would basically have to be affecting nothing
And Tier 1 doesn't mean you can kill hax IS DEADLY but thats doesnt mean it can stop lower hax from working

For Example: Tier 1-A EE that erases body, mind and soul wouldnt stop someone who is Tier 5-A with HGR from coming back now would it?

This isn't regen, this is stopping resurrection, which has nothing to do with her still being alive, since it actually prevents someone who is dead from coming back. So I'm not sure what you mean.

You're saying someone that died and can't revive can still exist?

If that 1-A has HGR negation, then yeah. In this case, it's immortality (Type 4) negation.

Oh nvm my range comment then
Although you REALLY should do so for transparency's sake

4th wall isn't a range. I know you said to ignore your comment lol.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Alright Muchacho
Lets say they both start and they both kill each other at the same time
Yama throws LAW AND ORDERS theme song at Arale and Arale removes Yama from the Narrative because he looks Ugly
And lets say Arale CANT plot herself back into existence
What can Yama do after Narrative Erasure bites him

This implies they aren't instantly killing each other from passives, but rather attacking each other...

Anyways, let's say it's passives, then his nascent divinity he put in either the Sage Monarch World Or the Hell of Yamas revives him. And no, she can't erase it because she needs to reach into that hell, which is a no considering the king of yamas or the hell itself would reject her. Not to mention how the nascent divinity would contain his laws.

Also, if you're wondering what the nascent divinity is, it's the true ego.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

For Yama, this was always a passive stomp and coming back or not dying.

 

[Ss3micah]

I meant in in a physical sense. If you want to talk about data and info, he has data and info interaction on his profile BTW.

Oh
Well thats another point for him then

Powernull: The powernull is his domain, she can't use causality manipulation because it will get nulled. The powernull is also through his laws.

9-D Powernull... Are you kidding me? Thats what I have been debating against?

Subjective reality: She might as well be fictional in his domain. Within it, he can anything he can think of and you can't get past it without having more layers or well 4D manipulation in this case but this is regarding her causality manipulation.

Well her Causality is 4-D as well

Paralysis: It is through his domain and laws

Well she resists Paralysis but not to that extent but I suppose she could use plot hax to counter it anyways (probably)

Law manipulation: You know lol.

I hate you Lololol

Yeah, his non-tier 1 hax isn't doing anything against her plot manipulation. Anyways, she dies immediately though, unless you mean this is passive and even then, it's passive vs passive and they both died, which doesn't matter for him since he comes back and she doesn't, unless you have that writer thing added.

I'll have it and OTHER MASSIVE STUFF added later Lolol

This isn't regen, this is stopping resurrection, which has nothing to do with her still being alive, since it actually prevents someone who is dead from coming back. So I'm not sure what you mean.

I was just making assessments

This implies they aren't instantly killing each other from passives, but rather attacking each other...

I was just adding dramatic flare lolol
Live a Little

Anyways, let's say it's passives, then his nascent divinity he put in either the Sage Monarch World Or the Hell of Yamas revives him. And no, she can't erase it because she needs to reach into that hell, which is a no considering the king of yamas or the hell itself would reject her. Not to mention how the nascent divinity would contain his laws.

Also, if you're wondering what the nascent divinity is, it's the true ego

Mehhh
I mean Plot hax Currently has Low Multiverse Range so unless these other planes are outside then they get affected
But assuming its outside of that range then yeah I guess

 

[Ss3micah]

For Yama, this was always a passive stomp and coming back or not dying.

Hmmm
Yeah I suppose this is a win for him
Although Im proud Arale (and I) never went down without killing Yama (a 9-D smurf) at least once
But Defeat is Defeat and I accept that

GG Muchacho
Great Debate

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

9-D Powernull... Are you kidding me? Thats what I have been debating against?

Yes but he would need feats to affect plot manipulation. For example a tier 1 can't null a 3D being's conceptual manipulation but it wouldn't affect them.

Well her Causality is 4-D as well

Then it affects the abilities not listed.

I hate you Lololol

LOL.

I was just adding dramatic flare lolol
Live a Little

Reminded me of Yang Qi who remembers a time...Before he came into existence.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Hmmm
Yeah I suppose this is a win for him
Although Im proud Arale (and I) never went down without killing Yama (a 9-D smurf) at least once
But Defeat is Defeat and I accept that

GG Muchacho
Great Debate

Thank you. You were fun to debate with.

 

[ArmBill]

If Yama hasn't shown the ability to affect the plot. How is he negating the plot bringing Arale back beyond the 4th Wall? Negating resurrection with laws or something doesn't really equate to negating that effect. Although for all I know he can affect the plot .

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

If Yama hasn't shown the ability to affect the plot. How is he negating the plot bringing Arale back beyond the 4th Wall? Negating resurrection with laws or something doesn't really equate to negating that effect. Although for all I know he can affect the plot .

He isn't interacting with the plot, the plot manipulation lacks the potency to bring her back. Ss3micah has a CRT planned to bypass this with the writers writing her back in.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Also, I forgot to say this but he has a passive that makes your attack never reach him. It is manipulating, space, the void, the five phases and duality... About duality, I've already talked about it, but he currently has the rest on his profile.

I didn't mention it because without the conceptual bit, you just need range or the ability to disregard it to reach him. It is basically Gojo Satoru's infinity on steroids.

 

[Ss3micah]

Also, I forgot to say this but he has a passive that makes your attack never reach him. It is manipulating, space, the void, the five phases and duality... About duality, I've already talked about it, but he currently has the rest on his profile.

I didn't mention it because without the conceptual bit, you just need range or the ability to disregard it to reach him. It is basically Gojo Satoru's infinity on steroids.

Well she could arguably reach him with Sub Reality since she can use that to treat any large and far object as small and near
So see could punch his lights out without moving an inch in all honesty

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Well she could arguably reach him with Sub Reality since she can use that to treat any large and far object as small and near
So see could punch his lights out without moving an inch in all honesty

That isn't how you bypass it. They can do that with law manipulation. You just need the range or the ability to disregard it. By range I mean interdimensional at-least.

By the ability to disregard it, I meant just ignoring it rather than trying to manipulate the distance, because it is counterproductive since well, the moment you try to manipulate the distance between you and him, the passive also makes sure it works as intended.

Another disregarding example: For example Yang Qi not even giving a thought to the spatial labyrinth created and just flying straight to his target.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

That isn't how you bypass it. They can do that with law manipulation. You just need the range or the ability to disregard it. By range I mean interdimensional at-least.

By the ability to disregard it, I meant just ignoring it rather than trying to manipulate the distance, because it is counterproductive since well, the moment you try to manipulate the distance between you and him, the passive also makes sure it works as intended.

Another disregarding example: For example Yang Qi not even giving a thought to the spatial labyrinth created and just flying straight to his target.

Of-course this isn't taking into account the still to be accepted conceptual bit BTW. Which is something I feel bad for mentioning...

Anyways, is the thread over?

 

[Ss3micah]

That isn't how you bypass it. They can do that with law manipulation. You just need the range or the ability to disregard it. By range I mean interdimensional at-least.

Interdimensonal Range is covered by certain abilities so GG I guess
And Plot Hax is Low Multi

Of-course this isn't taking into account the still to be accepted conceptual bit BTW. Which is something I feel bad for mentioning...

Anyways, is the thread over?

Yup
Its over

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Interdimensonal Range is covered by certain abilities so GG I guess
And Plot Hax is Low Multi

Yep, mostly not relevant for this thread.

Yup
Its over

If you're creating a rematch in the future, it will most likely be against another character of the verse. So this is probably the end of these two.

 

[TauanVictor]

Although for all I know he can affect the plot .

Then make a CRT.

 

[TauanVictor]

So, in short, it's a classic passive skill clash, which usually results in Inconclusive.

Since Yama can't resist Plot Hax and Arale has no 9-D resistance, can it be said that the 2 die? Or is Arale brought back by the scriptwriters, stays out of Law Manip's reach and just haxes him to death?

 

[Ss3micah]

So, in short, it's a classic passive skill clash, which usually results in Inconclusive.

I would argue for Inconclusive too except for certain factors

Since Yama can't resist Plot Hax and Arale has no 9-D resistance, can it be said that the 2 die?

Thats likely what would happen. They would both passive each other into oblivion

Or is Arale brought back by the scriptwriters, stays out of Law Manip's reach and just haxes him to death?

That comes into play after we got Immortal Type 8 (among other new stuff) implemented
When that time comes then we will go at Yama again for another rematch which would likely end up in an incon

 

[TauanVictor]

I vote for mutual death (or Incon) FRA.

 

[Ss3micah]

I vote for mutual death (or Incon) FRA.

I would too except Muchacho says that Yama can come back from Death and that his 9-D Law Hax would prevent Arale from coming back using her Plot Hax
While she could do so with 4th Wall Hax, because Immortal 8 is not there then apparently its outside help
If it was Immortal 8 right now, they would likely be looping each other endlessly into a never ending Incon