- 5,968
- 2,975
I mean, honestly the images don't really make it look like Yuno was in another dimension, though if is stated to be another dimension then I guess is fine.
You would be surprised about what instincts do in Arifureta because they have actually countered instantaneous teleportations various times, though also to be fair all of those instances iirc were from people above Apostles, and while Silver Apostles scale above normal Apostles and were somewhat comparable to Hajime party after preparing for war (they were below them but still by not that much in skill), so I'm bit uncertain if they should scale to those cases so could concede in the part about they dodging the instantaneous teleportation, though the point about instinctually knowing the danger from enter the effective range of the bfr still stand, same with them instinctually knowing what will come andthe best way to react to them.
The instincts, calculation power, skill and experience would help against that.
I mean, the magic manipulating space should need to affect the target somehow to, well, affect it, so it getting disintegrated when "coming in contact" (not necessarily in a literal physical sense) is something possible.
No, in their first fast he didn't send her away and instead send themselves away trying to run, he couldn't teleport her from a distance even despite he teleporting other without problem from distance (actually, in no point of the battle he teleported the Apostle even when touching her), the only time when Naiz was able to teleport a normal Apostle was in vol 4 (almost a year after the first battle) and that only was by touching her (which was possible thanks to begin with already be really close, she getting momentarily restricted by another Liberator, and Naiz getting both arms disintegrated in exchange of touching her). Silver Apostles didn't even existed in Zero era, hell it wasn't until after the first fight against the Liberators that Ehit instantly upgraded the Apostles with the disintegration magic just for fun to see how they would struggle in future battles against Apostles.
I'm not sure about that, I mean law and conceptual manip are things of a deeper/complex level of "existence", reason of why things like concept based soul manip, time manip or life manip and law based death manip, mind manip or curse manip, is not necessary for a hax to be higher d to be more potent than another (obviously putting aside layers) if the nature of the hax is more deep/complex, though to be sure could be asked @DontTalkDT (I know I can't ping staff) about this since he seem to be very knowledgeable regarding this type of topics (and since he is active in vs threads could be worth trying to ask him).
I mean, Hajime speed amps didn't helped him much against normal Apostles disintegration speed, and he used Riftwalk (10x speed amp) and Limit Break (which together with Riftwalk is a 36x speed amp), and the actual strong point of Riftwalk is a perception amp which let the user see comparable to stronger people in slow motion along with a increase in the processing power of the brain (reason of why Hajime can do multitasking work comparable to machines). I also believe that when an Apostle body was used against Mother she had problem processing the disintegration speed, though I could remember wrong. So I don't believe the speed amps of Zenon will really help against a Silver Apostle disintegration speed.
As I mentioned in a previous part Apostles didn't got upgraded with disintegration until a later point by Ehit, in the first battle against the Liberators she just naturally resisted their ancient magic (which included gravity magic but the resistance still isn't in her profile do to me still not posting the crts for Zero) so it wasn't a thing of her disintegration defending her against Naiz attacks.
Not sure if I understood what you said but happy if it was helpful.
I mean, attack the heart isn't something weird to do, actually her first attack against Miledi at their second encounter was basically disintegrate the right side of her body and the only reason she could survive was do to her companios help.
Honestly don't know what you try to say, when I say that is layered ancient magic is because the Liberators are the best users of their respective ancient magic and have scaling chains putting them above others with x hax (like the Naiz spatial scaling chain).
As I said the image don't really make it look like he was teleported to another dimension, but well.
Actually now that you mention that, there actually exist a feat like that in which Ehit casually used his disintegration to destroy the pocket dimension in which Hajime stored all his artifacts, and since Apostles disintegration ability come directly from Ehit and Silver Apostles have even more of Ehit power, is probably that their disintegration can do the same. There is also the case in the fight against Miledi when she wanted to destroy everything Miledi had (including the pocket dimension in which Orcus put artifacts for her) to bring her despair, which she showed to do (which indeed brought despair to her until she had an awakening in power and completely mastered the concept of gravity), in the war against humanity the apostles were also destroying the equipment that Hajime gave them which iirc correctly included destroy things like Hyperions and Rose Helios (which had pocket dimensions with miniature suns insides).
I mean, Ehit is always inside the Holy Precints (which are several dimensions of considerable size) and Apostles communicate with him in every moment while they are doing things in Tortus to entertain him, they also comunicate with the other Apostles when they are in the Divine Edicts, thanks to always be connected with Ehit is that they also can exit and enter the Divine Edicts so logically speaking they should be able to use that to come again to the battlefield. I just never thought of that that way, but recently in a crt from Tsuki Ga the characters gained interdimensional range for things like that so I guess is something to note in the Apostles range section.
I mean, from what I already mentioned Zenon amps shouldn't really help against the disintegration.
I mean, even with all of that I seriously doubt his resistance come near Shia levels or Hajime group do to both Soul Shell level defenses and willpower (like, just by willpower Shia or Hajime group can instantly gain layered things like resistance to corrosion, spatial manip, gravity manip, soul manip, etc, on top of gain haxs like that), also if you want to count layers of hax with numbers like that way then Silver Apostles charm would enter in the millions (maybe billions) range (this do to scale above base Freid who can control the minds of several hundred thousands monsters with stronger monsters having a higher degree of mind resistance, scale above Apostle Eri who can mind manip strong students like Kouki or Kaori or even Freid, and scale above devils of Unknow level, who despict be unable to affect an average Returned, could affect the minds of millions of persons, including exorcist who resist mind manip, along with scale above lower levels demons who similarly can affect others minds).
Additionally I did a little research since I remembered to see a crt about this time ago and finded this crt in which all humans lost their mind manip resistance and the only characters that still retain mind manip are devils do to resist the corruption of their mana, so in light of this now I have some concerns about if is really accepted the scaling chain you posted and if it really grant as many layers as you said, similarly I'm not sure if the same could happen with other topics so I want to hear what other supporters of the verse say (reason of why I asked Clover about the mind manip resistance layers, though as he said he isn't good with power scaling like that, although he still was useful).
I mean, don't think that actually help since demon king already was able to null the ancient magic of the Liberators at begining of vol 3, which forced them to get stronger and overcome him, but then superior versions of the Liberators were helpless against Uralt power null and a normal Apostle still disintegrated (and used magic in general against) Uralt without problems.
I mean, in no part of the profiles is mentioned that they have law manip and don't really know if that scan is enough to give them law manip (since it seem a random comment which could specifically be talking about the power of Vanessa magic which is fate/probability manip) so until a crt is made to give law manip to all Arcane users then I don't believe it should be compared with ancient magic nature since in the case of the ancient magic scans the law and conceptual manip were things mentioned when explaining what ancient magics are and the nature of it (later Ehit also reveal that ancient magic was the result of mix super advanced levels of magic and sciencie to get the ability to manipulate the fundamental thruth of all things), in the ancient magic scans is also said how they control the fundaments above the laws of the world (along the laws of the universe and reality itself) so that still put it at a deeper level than Arcane magic even in the case that Arcane magic = world laws (which still would need to be accepted in a crt). Similarly I'm not sure if devils are really considered Arcane, at least I do 't remember have heard before that they are that so would like confirmation from more knowlegeables about the verse.
Lilith and Naamah are specific cases though since they are the only devils that have show conceptual manip (and even then there was actually a considerable contention if they should have limited conceptual manip instead of just npi), it was also decided that Lucifero shouldn't have conceptual manip so that is a bad argument, there is also the confirmation from Clover about no character until now having the ability null the few conceptual powers of the verse, the fact that the concept manip of the verse is Type 3 instead of 2 is also another reason of why they aren't equal to ancient magic, so until not all Arcane users and devils get conceptual manip Type 2 accepted in their profiles then they can't be equated to ancient magics.
I mean, wasn't you who said at the beginning that the bones don't move? Was do to that that I brought the roots feats. If the problem is that they appear out of nowhere from all angles at great numbers then that isn't really a problem since even at Zero she was already stomping without be even graced people who could pop hundreds of attacks from all angles every second: Oscar who fighting style is overwhelm the enemy with insane numbers of legendary level artifacts, Vandre who pop hundreds of ice weapons around his target and simultaneously control all of them to applying his mastery of all martial arts to them, Naiz who can create dozens (probably hundreds like the others but well, for the sake of lowballing and to not search now a scan of him doing that will just say dozens) of elemental and spatial attacks, Meiru who similarly attack from all the surroundings of the target with water manip, her whip blade and time manip, Laus can also do hundreds of elemental and soul attacks, Miledi who create various several hundreds elememtal and gravity attacks from every angle at every second and who's number of spells increase every instant (along with the strength, speed, effect and precision of them, as showed in her battle against the demon king); a far less skilled Hajime fromearly vols also dodged an amount of attacks that were as numerous as raindrops, Kaori when she still didn't mastered all the skill ingraved in a Apostle body could fight perfectly while against billions of cockroaches with super powers and magic (yes that was bizarre, and as a note the billions of cockroaches were from Lyutillis who fought with them when she was alive do to them been her first friends), there is also a feat of Neute using her Apostle body for the first time after years and facing without any problems a shower of attacks from several hundreds (likely milliosn) of Mother machine soldiers simultaneously. So this isn't something new to her or something that she can't counter, specially with her own danmaku. I don't post scans showing examples of each of the Liberators doing their danmaku just to not make this comment even longer, though I could do so if really necessary.
I mean, from what I finded the percentages, while a boost, aren't really that big, so not sure if they really are that impactful, and if you bring that scan I think is fair that I bring one saying how Oscar and Hajime transmutation speed increase at each moment (the second image should go last but Noneless21 haven't corrected that), there are also more scenes in which their transmutation grew continuosly (like in vol 1 when Hajime was constantly transmutation without any type of break for severals days and his skill grew) but I don't have screenshots of those so I would need to post them as quotes and that will make this even longer so I prefer not do so, anyways the above scan had a Zero vol 2 Oscar and a vol 5 Hajime which were before their battle against a normal Apostle (in Oscar case at vol 4 many months after vol 2 he had his second fight against an Apostle and still his transmutation speed wasn't enough, in Hajime case his first encounter with an Apostle was in vol 6 and he still struggled to barely follow the disintegration speed after use his amps).
As a side note the above scan made me remember that unknow obelisk which should add another layer to the powernull scaling chain, it actually could be taken as a hundred more layers do to the statement of be a hundred times above sealstone.
I mean, with the obelisk thing from above she could gain another 100 layers, I also pointed how Arcane magic can't be equated to ancient magic so Zenon's power nullification don't work.
I mean, if he want to control her magic he would need to control the infinite supply of mana tnat her heart give from Ehit, also if he can't null the level at which her magic activate/work/affect she will be able to continuosly activate it, which would mean that she would be able to disintegrate his magic power when coming in contact with her mana.
I disagree do to things I already commented but well.
Already addressed that point by mentioning how she is accustomed to be attacked from all possible directions by a great number of attacks, so I still stand about her facing his danmaku without problem.
Made counter arguments above your counter arguments so that smooth. While she can close the distance she can also choose to begin by attacking from a distance and if she see or sense that it would actually be bad to get near she can spam from distance, she can also increase the distance by moving through space or simple by flying.
I mean, the amps he have in this key I don't think are that crazy that she can't counter with her skill, abilities and calculation speed, along with the danmakus dodging feats she have.
This took too much time to write, I'm drained both mentally and physically, now I just want to rest.
