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Another ~ Sakuya Izayoi vs Bayonetta
- Thread starter Scarletmoon56
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I don't know, ask Bayonetta and Jeanne.
And Megaman.
And Megaman.
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Had to ask to be unbanned for my moment of peace.
First I'll start off with a refutal, both are overrated but Sakuya less so. Though she has the disadvantage of using pads it brings out a cute side of her but on the other hand Bayonetta's hair for BDSM is both a double edged sword-
Jk jk,
In all seriousness, I checked. Apparently Bayonetta can be turned into a child incarnation of her and she can't revert unless she maximized an energy of some bar. Either way that's already enough to show that she doesn't immediately resist other things that are time related. Time stop sure, but time related like being aged to death or reverse aged? Not so much.
Secondly, it's pretty bad to incorporate another verse's law to another just because they're ambiguous on what they can do. I mean I can argue that Kaguya had no intention of losing and used her eternity manipulation to prevent Sakuya from moving, or the fact that "she froze the night" meant that Sakuya could resist those effects. But overall just because Dio can be stopped in time by Jotaro, when his freaking time stop ability is clearly different from Sakuya in the way that it has a clearly defined limit, then you can't implement that. Otherwise I can go on and say, "Oh well in Dishonored, Daud can stop time so he resisted time stop. That means Sakuya can do the same."
Actually, yeah, why not just time stop each other the moment they can to avoid chronolock. Of course that's ignoring the fact that Sakuya can greatly reduce enemy speed or augment her own.
BFR and elemental attacks? Sakuya dealt with those.
Attack Reflection? That's as great as trying to reflect explosions happening all around you. There's gonna be knives everywhere. The damage reduction? From what I see in her wiki pages too that there are limits to said sub-abilities and even without incorporating gameplay mechanics it's a viable weakness.
Also I'm more than sure Existence Erasure is different enough from Time Stop itself. It's not exactly right but it's like comparing how different the effects of Avatar's lightning to fire for fire benders.
First I'll start off with a refutal, both are overrated but Sakuya less so. Though she has the disadvantage of using pads it brings out a cute side of her but on the other hand Bayonetta's hair for BDSM is both a double edged sword-
Jk jk,
In all seriousness, I checked. Apparently Bayonetta can be turned into a child incarnation of her and she can't revert unless she maximized an energy of some bar. Either way that's already enough to show that she doesn't immediately resist other things that are time related. Time stop sure, but time related like being aged to death or reverse aged? Not so much.
Secondly, it's pretty bad to incorporate another verse's law to another just because they're ambiguous on what they can do. I mean I can argue that Kaguya had no intention of losing and used her eternity manipulation to prevent Sakuya from moving, or the fact that "she froze the night" meant that Sakuya could resist those effects. But overall just because Dio can be stopped in time by Jotaro, when his freaking time stop ability is clearly different from Sakuya in the way that it has a clearly defined limit, then you can't implement that. Otherwise I can go on and say, "Oh well in Dishonored, Daud can stop time so he resisted time stop. That means Sakuya can do the same."
Actually, yeah, why not just time stop each other the moment they can to avoid chronolock. Of course that's ignoring the fact that Sakuya can greatly reduce enemy speed or augment her own.
BFR and elemental attacks? Sakuya dealt with those.
Attack Reflection? That's as great as trying to reflect explosions happening all around you. There's gonna be knives everywhere. The damage reduction? From what I see in her wiki pages too that there are limits to said sub-abilities and even without incorporating gameplay mechanics it's a viable weakness.
Also I'm more than sure Existence Erasure is different enough from Time Stop itself. It's not exactly right but it's like comparing how different the effects of Avatar's lightning to fire for fire benders.
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<Why not just time stop eachother.
Bayo resists and murks.
Plus, it's very much in character for Bayo to lead with it.
Bayo resists and murks.
Plus, it's very much in character for Bayo to lead with it.
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You did read my paragraph explaining how the implications of Sakuya can't resist time stop is ridiculous and how even in game feats show that she has a very likelihood, if not absolute, resistance feat due to dealing with Kaguya right?
And let me clarify.... Dio and Jotaro effectively cancelled out each other's time stop by time stopping at the same time. Which makes it so that your time resist feat cancelled out.
Sakuay does too so uh.... nope.
Also danmaku in Touhou with no intention to play by the rules and aimed to kill, is not dodgeable.
And let me clarify.... Dio and Jotaro effectively cancelled out each other's time stop by time stopping at the same time. Which makes it so that your time resist feat cancelled out.
Sakuay does too so uh.... nope.
Also danmaku in Touhou with no intention to play by the rules and aimed to kill, is not dodgeable.
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Then make a CRT. But of course.
Anyway.
The biggest point you made only countered one of my examples, Megaman and Dante are both examples of time stopping another time stopper.
And yes, she's dealt with certain attacks before, however, has she dealt with them by a person who leads with Time Stop and the fact that Sakuya herself leads with it killing her?
Anyway.
The biggest point you made only countered one of my examples, Megaman and Dante are both examples of time stopping another time stopper.
And yes, she's dealt with certain attacks before, however, has she dealt with them by a person who leads with Time Stop and the fact that Sakuya herself leads with it killing her?
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Well of course, but that requires work and I hate wooork. But then again, it's not unnatural to hear it again and again.
Your only argument is how time erasure can be resisted because it's time related, and how the time stops cancel out each other. And I refuted them I'd say.
Sorry I didn't quite make sense of this last paragraph here. Could you rephrase that?
Your only argument is how time erasure can be resisted because it's time related, and how the time stops cancel out each other. And I refuted them I'd say.
Sorry I didn't quite make sense of this last paragraph here. Could you rephrase that?
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Ummm. Far never said Time Erasure didn't work on Bayo. Matter of fact we showed example of how it did.
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Actually, I never once said Bayonetta resisted it, please tell me where I did because Time STOP and Time ERASURE are two DIFFERENT things in one of my FIRST REPLIES to this thread.
So please tell me once where I stated she would resist Erasure. Ever.
And since you told me Sakuya leads with Time Stop. Fight goes.
Sakuya and Bayo: TIME STOP
Time gets stopped.
Bayo walks up and slaps.
GG
So please tell me once where I stated she would resist Erasure. Ever.
And since you told me Sakuya leads with Time Stop. Fight goes.
Sakuya and Bayo: TIME STOP
Time gets stopped.
Bayo walks up and slaps.
GG
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WHO DA HELL IS FARDragonmasterxyz said:
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Geez calm the heck down. My bad then.
That's my argument, resisting the time stop. And in that case, your point of "You only refuted one of my points" is resolved by the fact that your entire point is based on a ridiculous concept of ambiguity and forced shared universes.
The likelier event of that would be-
Bayo misses her slaps
Gets shredded by knives
GG NO RE
There, was that so hard?
That's my argument, resisting the time stop. And in that case, your point of "You only refuted one of my points" is resolved by the fact that your entire point is based on a ridiculous concept of ambiguity and forced shared universes.
The likelier event of that would be-
Bayo misses her slaps
Gets shredded by knives
GG NO RE
There, was that so hard?
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WHO DA HELL IS FAR
According to autocorrect....you. ovo
According to autocorrect....you. ovo
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Dude, he just mistyped. F and G are beside each other on a keyboard. You're making me remeber that one guy in the movie Circle now hehe.
Sides, my point is your argument of one slap is cancelled.
Sides, my point is your argument of one slap is cancelled.
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I'm calm as ever, I just found it strange someone asks me if I read their reply and doesn't read my first replies.
Anyway. Missing her slap against someone who is time stopped for 15 minutes straight with no resistance? Not going to happen.
Anyway. Missing her slap against someone who is time stopped for 15 minutes straight with no resistance? Not going to happen.
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I know.CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
And no.
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As strange as not comprehending universe equalitzation doesn't always happen? I'd have to agree. And it's morning, geez.
Here we go with the resistance argument again. Have I not shown the Dishonored comparison? One verse =/= another verse mechanics just because they have powers.
Here we go with the resistance argument again. Have I not shown the Dishonored comparison? One verse =/= another verse mechanics just because they have powers.
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Then I repeat again, make a CRT, until then Sakuya has no resistance and she either gets atomized, soul screwed etc.
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So then the question is, what makes her time stop different to Witch Time. Time Stop is time Stop regardless of series.
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Then why the heck do you have to capslock like a 13 year old?
Of course kindly~ But let me point out that logic is still completely ignorant and at this state, the normal thing to do would be to treat it as two cases.
Is that neglecting the fact that Sakuya's has barriers for atomization and can at that point use time erasure at the realization she's gonna get seriously offed or use a clone to counter that, and the fact that she has soul resistance? Or the fact that she likely danmaku swarms her and dodges any attempt to BFR?
Of course kindly~ But let me point out that logic is still completely ignorant and at this state, the normal thing to do would be to treat it as two cases.
Is that neglecting the fact that Sakuya's has barriers for atomization and can at that point use time erasure at the realization she's gonna get seriously offed or use a clone to counter that, and the fact that she has soul resistance? Or the fact that she likely danmaku swarms her and dodges any attempt to BFR?
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Okay let me just be blunt. If she does not resist Time Stop, none of this matters. This isn't Jotaro or DIO. This is Sakuya "Badass" Izayoi. If she lacks it on her file, and no CRT has been made to fix this, then she's screwed.
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To emphasis on certain words, geez calm down.
This is just a debate.
This is just a debate.
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Vote for Bayo?Dragonmasterxyz said:
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My point is that different time stops exist for different universes. In Jojo, if others can time stop they can still be time stopped. In Dishonored, if you can time stop you can't be time stopped by enemy time stops. In Supernatural, any angel can resist a time stop even from outside sources. Fairy Tail's own time stopper can be overwhelmed by power haxx and at the same time a time stopper can also be immune to said time stop. Touhou doesn't even display that time stoppers can be frozen in their own time.
Basically, you can't ram in feats and logic from one verse to another. I mean geez, Touhou isn't even defined to be close to Jojo aside from the memes. Why compare their logics? Hell Gensokyo is even more logically absurd.
And by the way... any of Bayonetta's powers or attacks can be countered by time erasure since that's why the ability of Sakuya's is used on the first place.
And still trying to find the reason why "Bayo oneslaps" when they're in the same ball park.
Also in the other words of a great person to yours, one can choose to avoid being an asshole.
In another case, the logical thing to do when someone's about to get a CRT is to wait for the CRT to be discussed.
Basically, you can't ram in feats and logic from one verse to another. I mean geez, Touhou isn't even defined to be close to Jojo aside from the memes. Why compare their logics? Hell Gensokyo is even more logically absurd.
And by the way... any of Bayonetta's powers or attacks can be countered by time erasure since that's why the ability of Sakuya's is used on the first place.
And still trying to find the reason why "Bayo oneslaps" when they're in the same ball park.
Also in the other words of a great person to yours, one can choose to avoid being an asshole.
In another case, the logical thing to do when someone's about to get a CRT is to wait for the CRT to be discussed.
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What reasons?Jiangshi1 said:
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What reasons?
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What reasons ovo
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Aw man it's like my response doesn't exist...
The reasons I posted no how Sakuya counters about any of Bayonetta's moves by erasing them...
How danmaku would ensure Bayonetta gets hit more...
And how solidly even Gargoyle accepts that Sakuya can erase Bayonetta? Which by the way is the likely event when you realize you're about to lose/die?
Though Jiangshi you probably need to say something more concrete.
The reasons I posted no how Sakuya counters about any of Bayonetta's moves by erasing them...
How danmaku would ensure Bayonetta gets hit more...
And how solidly even Gargoyle accepts that Sakuya can erase Bayonetta? Which by the way is the likely event when you realize you're about to lose/die?
Though Jiangshi you probably need to say something more concrete.
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Core...listen to me buddy. Does Sakuya start with time erasure on character?
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She starts with time erasure when she's about to be hit by a projectile. That's the reason why she uses it. That's how it was found out in the first place, it's a bomb type ability that helps deal with too much danmaku.
Of course in a serious fight where she's likely gonna die, she's of course gonna use it.
It's logic and the use of trump cards. Using a signature ability to deal with many projectiles and undodgeable attacks at once, or hell like I said. A final trump card.
I mean, if you had a gun and you're being beat up to death. Are you not going to use the gun?
Of course in a serious fight where she's likely gonna die, she's of course gonna use it.
It's logic and the use of trump cards. Using a signature ability to deal with many projectiles and undodgeable attacks at once, or hell like I said. A final trump card.
I mean, if you had a gun and you're being beat up to death. Are you not going to use the gun?
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Yes exactly. And not once but repeatedly. It's an ability to use in a nifty time. Can't use it in a non-lethal battle too much since otherwise it would be useless and in danmaku, the objective is to create beautiful patterns and dodge elegantly.
Killing a person by making them cease to exist, is not elegant or fair. So she avoids using it.
But a battle to the death? Yeah. Uses it. Considering she's a perfectionist too well... Yeah, she's gonna aim for a quick perfect end.
Killing a person by making them cease to exist, is not elegant or fair. So she avoids using it.
But a battle to the death? Yeah. Uses it. Considering she's a perfectionist too well... Yeah, she's gonna aim for a quick perfect end.
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Read Standard Battle Assumptions.
>In character but willing to kill. Will utilize their usual battle strategies including flaws.
>In character but willing to kill. Will utilize their usual battle strategies including flaws.
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Exactly. Also add in the fact that Sakuya's only reason to why she doesn't use it is because she's in a non lethal match? That's like pulling a gun in a boxing spar.
So all in all, yeah, the perfectionist maid is gonna pull off her ace right away.
So all in all, yeah, the perfectionist maid is gonna pull off her ace right away.
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Just reading throught this, I'm pretty sure that Sakuya can't alter the past. I've read a bunch of stuff about what she can do, and she can stop time, slow it down, speed it up, and alter time perspectives (might want to check the last one, can't remember if that's true atm). Might be wrong about her not being able to change the past though. I will say that even if Bayo can resist Time Stop, that doesn't necessarily prevent Saku from getting her crap ton of knives off. Plus she has her enchanted knives that are affected by time in different ways (this is shown in TH 10.5, Scarlet Weather Rhaspsody).
Even with this, I'm not sure who would win. I'll say stale mate since Sakuya has some insane speed herself (everyone in Touhou does), and her durability is equal to the max that Bayo could do.
Even with this, I'm not sure who would win. I'll say stale mate since Sakuya has some insane speed herself (everyone in Touhou does), and her durability is equal to the max that Bayo could do.
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If it's not in character for Sakuya to lead with erasure then Bayo takes this
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@Paradox speed is equalized and im almost positive Bayo is much faster if it wasnt
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I don't know that Bayo would be faster, since Sakuya's been compared to Youmu and Aya before, who are two of the fastest people in Gensokyo, and she was at least very close to their speed, even without time manipulation.
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