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All Hail The Flowering Night (Shadow VS Sakuya)

BlastX

BlastX

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Originally I wasn't gonna bother but then I realized that they do share a tier, so hey why not? Even if turns out to be a Stomp it would clear some doubts for me.

Super Shadow VS Sakuya Izayoi, both at Low 2-C.

Battle takes place in the Ark Racetrack where Sonic and Shadow fought each other.

Speed Equal.

Chaos Spears:0

Silver Knives:8

They ****(draw):0

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sakuya_Izayoi

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shadow the Hedgehog (Game)

Shadow the Hedgehog (シャドウ・ザ・ヘッジホッグ Shadō za Hejjihoggu) is a hero and rival from the Sonic the Hedgehog series. He is an anthropomorphic black hedgehog/Black Arms hybrid and the arch-rival of Sonic the Hedgehog. Shadow was created as the "Ultimate Life Form" by Dr. Gerald Robotnik, using the DNA...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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How strong exactly is Super Shadow? Because if he's stronger than Sakuya by a large amount, this could be stompy.

On the other hand, if he's anywhere near her in terms of AP, this seems like a poor matchup for him. As far as AP, Sakuya is like 4 or 5 levels up the scaling totem pole from a character who can fire 50 Universes in a single attack (Doremy Sweet) while still limited by the Danmaku rules, and has what would be a very hard move to tank for even peak Super Shadow with his lack of Spirit Manip resistance: the fact that without Spell Card rules in play, there is absolutely nothing holding Sakuya back from making a literally undodgeable Danmaku barrage that would attack Shadow's very soul, weakening him while simultaneously buffing up Sakuya.

So that's question one: Can Sakuya's Danmaku hurt Super Shadow, and if so, would Super Shadow have any chance at dodging it or weakening its effects? I think the answer to that second half is a clear no with the lack of resistance to Soul Hax, but I can't say anything about the first half.

Question two is who's signature Space/Time hax is better. From what I see, Sakuya's control over space/time is stronger than Super Shadow's, or at least there are feats that she has that Super Shadow doesn't have without much of a vice-versa. With that in mind, I think Sakuya takes the "better spacetime hax" category, though I think there could be arguments to the contrary.

Question three follows from that: Shadow does have Resistance Negation on his profile, but is that strong enough to overcome Sakuya's space/time resistance? I can't say for sure, but I can say that purely on description, Eientei's existence as a place outside Time and Causality is similar to Sonic's White Space being a place where Time doesn't exist. So it does seem possible that Sakuya would be affected by the Super Shadow Time shenanigans.

Shadow does lose the Hax battle for certain in the supplementary category, at least as far as wincons go. None of his resistances do anything to stop Sakuya's most notable wincon of existence erasure, though a secondary wincon of aging Shadow to death does go out the window due to type 1 immortality.

To sum up my feelings, Sakuya's profile needs a lot of work, but even as it stands there are a couple paths to victory, assuming she can't hurt Shadow at all. If she can hurt Shadow, or at least drain Spirit with Danmaku, then I think this becomes a somewhat easy W for Sakuya considering the stat advantage would quickly flip and she would be simultaneously attacking an area he has no defense in.

I'm leaning Sakuya as is for a different, related reason: Shadow literally has a stated weakness of getting cocky and overconfident, and with that in mind is far more likely to play with his food long enough for Sakuya to pull out EE and end the fight with a blow that Shadow has no resistance against whatsoever. If he's not far enough ahead on AP to make that playing fatal then I think he gets erased before he goes for the killshot.
 
Shadow resists EE and Void Manipulation too (which is stronger EE), so that's useless against him.

And his invulnerability kinda ***** Sakuya of ever damaging him.

And also, this is Low 2-C for both characters, not 2-C
 
Ah. Those resistances are not listed on his profile at all. Does he resist Soul and/or Spirit manip?

If she can't damage him at all ever then this is just a stomp.
 
Would Shadow's kind of time manipulation resistance and acausality prevent Sakuya from speeding up his time until his ages to death? Because her options, aside from soul attacks, seem nearly nonexistent here.
 
ztarwarz said:
I'm leaning Sakuya as is for a different, related reason: Shadow literally has a stated weakness of getting cocky and overconfident, and with that in mind is far more likely to play with his food long enough for Sakuya to pull out EE and end the fight with a blow that Shadow has no resistance against whatsoever. If he's not far enough ahead on AP to make that playing fatal then I think he gets erased before he goes for the killshot.
Click to expand...
Shadow has EE, Void, and Soul Manip Resistance on his profile.

Also, the weakness of him being cocky is for his Base form, not Super. Even on the profile, under his Super Shadow key, the weaknesses say “None notable”
 
Also, while I'm not sure where Sakuya places in the Low 2-C versions of the Scaling Chain, Super Forms not only have their own Low 2-C feat they scale to, but are also massively superior to the World Rings, which with half of them Alfa-Lawlya I never get his name right performed a Low 2-C feat just by existing, to top it all of, Shadow has his own ways of amping his AP like Chaos Boost, his Chaos Blast and popping off his Limiters (Both of which is a x12 boost).
 
ztarwarz said:
Does he resist Soul and/or Spirit manip?
Click to expand...
He seems to resist soul and mind manip,
but I don't think that's enough to go around spirit hax as it has good amount of layers.

I will just copy'n paste Fujiwara's take on this from previous vs threads.
So the basic scaling chain for mind/empathic hax in Touhou is that individual phantoms passively mindhax anyone who comes near them, groups of phantoms are able to affect those who aren't bothered by individual ones, and "stronger" phantoms (ie; the high tiers) can destroy the minds of those who can walk through phantom infested areas unhindhered. This gives most 2hu characters at least 3 layers of mindhax resistance, and Suika was able to mind control everyone in Gensokyo all at once (so 3 layers spread across several hundred/thousand people), except for Yukari, who resisted that. Yukari is still affected by spirit hax though, so her 4 layers of resistance are overcome by spirit manipulation, giving it 5 layers of potency, at least in terms of its mindhax. However, the soul and mind are the same thing in Touhou (hence why spirit manipulation encompasses both), so really all of its attached hax are 5 layered.
Click to expand...
 
I would like to ask if Shadow's resistance to time manipulation is layered, seeing as Sakuya's timehax are layered via working on people who can resist Kaguya's time stop. Sakuya also resists her own layered time stop, so I'm not sure if Shadow's time stuff has enough potency to bypass that.

Also just to clear something up, "spirit" encompasses a person's emotions, chi, stamina, and physical statistics. So even if Shadow resists the mind/soul stuff (which he won't, given the hax layers at play here), he'd still get incapacitated.

That being said, Sakuya doesn't have a counter to BFR/sealing from chaos control, so if Shadow opens with that then this could really go either way.
 
I almost forgot Sakuya has infinite speed. That means Chaos Control gets negged and Sakuya’s time stop works as it affects infinite speed people, and Low 2-C Shadow is only MFTL+.
 
Would Sakuya aging Shadow via speeding up his time change him out of his Super Form? It wouldn't kill him due to type 1 immortality, but if it works to drain through his ring supply, it would basically end the fight right there considering base Shadow is not winning this fight.
 
Huge fan of both franchises here, I’ve gotta give this to Sakuya. Spirit Manipulation’s layered affects would completely **** Shadow over in the end, and the time stop being layered mean he doesn’t really have a resistance to the main aspects of her arsenal, meaning he could be completely opened up to just having his soul / mind / emotions completely obliterated in stopped time.

I’d also wonder if he’d resist her type of existence erasure, as it erases someone’s time completely.
 
ztarwarz said:
Would Sakuya aging Shadow via speeding up his time change him out of his Super Form? It wouldn't kill him due to type 1 immortality, but if it works to drain through his ring supply, it would basically end the fight right there considering base Shadow is not winning this fight.
Click to expand...
No because that’s a gameplay mechanic.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Shadow was unaffected by Time Eater’a erasure of space-time so he could withstand that. Regardless I do think Sakuya takes this for the other reasons you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Dunno if it's worth mentioning, but Touhou seems to have both general space-time and an individual's own personal sort of time, so I don't know if he can survive her temporal EE if it's as layered as her general time manipulation abilities.

That said, I'll go with Sakuya for Kirb's reasons.
 
I see, thanks, I should probably try harder to memorize the slang and abbreviations commonly used on this site.
 
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