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Another ben10 vs Pokemon (dinosaurs)
- Thread starter Bowser-us
- Start date
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Either Humungousaur blitzes or Tyrantrum obliterates with it's Hax and Mountain+ AP.
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All right now this is a Ben 10 vs Pokémon fight.
Ult. Humungousaur can hold his own against 100 Robot Humungousaurs who's AP is probably equal to Diamondhead's dura who is unscathed by 352 megatons, has range with his missiles. Has a speed advantage but not enough to blitz (I think) and Ben's got the experience and intelligence on this one. Tyrantrum has some hax but the only useful thing I see is BFR and stat amps, unsure how good the former is, the latter is good but this is assuming Ben's gonna give him time to stat amp.
Ult. Humungousaur can hold his own against 100 Robot Humungousaurs who's AP is probably equal to Diamondhead's dura who is unscathed by 352 megatons, has range with his missiles. Has a speed advantage but not enough to blitz (I think) and Ben's got the experience and intelligence on this one. Tyrantrum has some hax but the only useful thing I see is BFR and stat amps, unsure how good the former is, the latter is good but this is assuming Ben's gonna give him time to stat amp.
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Tyrantrum's AP is scaling far above 531 megatons. Chain goes Pupitar (531 megatons by thrashing) < Weaker third stage Pokemon (e.g. Omastar) < Aerodactyl = Cranidos <<< Rampardos < Tyrantrum.
His BFR is just swatting his opponent away, nothing useful really. Humungosaur is about 2x faster, but remember it can only attack with melee moves, giving Tyrantrum ample chance to stat amp (most notably dragon dance which amps attack and speed each time it's used) and potentially attack from range.
His BFR is just swatting his opponent away, nothing useful really. Humungosaur is about 2x faster, but remember it can only attack with melee moves, giving Tyrantrum ample chance to stat amp (most notably dragon dance which amps attack and speed each time it's used) and potentially attack from range.
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This is Ultimate Humungousaur who has missiles and can oneshot a regular Humungousaur with one of them.
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Nah. He just spams em close to mid range
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Which of Tyrantrum's attacks use range?
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Ult. Humungousaur can create his own shockwaves by punching the ground to counter Earthquake. Ancient power can be shot down at mid-range or dodged, same for rock slide. Also I can see Humungousaur picking up large rocks and throwing them at Tyrantrum as a distraction as well. Would Tyrantrum be smart enough to stat-amp before it actually get hits tho?
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I doubt shockwaves will be comparable to an actual elemental attack. Hell, there are Pokemon who can shake the ground by walking, and the move Earthquake is objectively superior to that. And Pokemon much smaller than Humungosaur with flight have trouble dodging ancient power and rock slide.
Stat amps doesn't require much intelligence, but Pokemon are naturally hard-wired for battle so he probably would use stat amps, especially from a large range.
Stat amps doesn't require much intelligence, but Pokemon are naturally hard-wired for battle so he probably would use stat amps, especially from a large range.
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Tyrantrum is a pokemon and pokemon on average are usually much smarter than real life animals, sometimes around average humans give or take based on the kind of pokemon (ie, psychic types are usually smarter on average)
Tyrantrum's intelligence is unknown though, so I'll just assume that it's at least somewhat comparable to an average pokemon and by extension, an average human, giving him reasoning skills to some degree. Something that real life animals tend to lack.
The thing that makes them superior to just an average person is that basically all fully evolved pokemon are extremely battle experienced and fight all the time. They're not only hard wired to fight, but essentially fight their entire lives.
I don't know Tyrantrum's leading moves or preferred moves and cannot recall anime/manga appearances, though I assume that it likes physical moves... So I would say that it would dragon dance if its attacks are failing to do anything to Ultimate Humungosaur, which plays into what is presumably its physical attack preferrence.
Assuming they start a distance apart, I would assume Tyrantrum would earth quake first since that's the easiest way to reach/hit the foe, possibly try a few of its other moves if the distance closes, then start dragon dancing a bit if they do nothing.
If Tyrantrum getting overwhelmed, it has a panic button: Roar, which in the context of a non-team fight (how it works vs wild pokemon) causes the target to run away; it's essentially fear "run away from me" hax, which could then lead into ample dragon dance opportunities... Roar is only a BFR in a trainer battle because instead of making a pokemon flee, it makes them switch out.
Tyrantrum's intelligence is unknown though, so I'll just assume that it's at least somewhat comparable to an average pokemon and by extension, an average human, giving him reasoning skills to some degree. Something that real life animals tend to lack.
The thing that makes them superior to just an average person is that basically all fully evolved pokemon are extremely battle experienced and fight all the time. They're not only hard wired to fight, but essentially fight their entire lives.
I don't know Tyrantrum's leading moves or preferred moves and cannot recall anime/manga appearances, though I assume that it likes physical moves... So I would say that it would dragon dance if its attacks are failing to do anything to Ultimate Humungosaur, which plays into what is presumably its physical attack preferrence.
Assuming they start a distance apart, I would assume Tyrantrum would earth quake first since that's the easiest way to reach/hit the foe, possibly try a few of its other moves if the distance closes, then start dragon dancing a bit if they do nothing.
If Tyrantrum getting overwhelmed, it has a panic button: Roar, which in the context of a non-team fight (how it works vs wild pokemon) causes the target to run away; it's essentially fear "run away from me" hax, which could then lead into ample dragon dance opportunities... Roar is only a BFR in a trainer battle because instead of making a pokemon flee, it makes them switch out.
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Well the shockwave from UH did one shot an army of the Humungousaur bioids so its basically just a huge aoe from him that is >>> aliens >>> 352 megatons to everything caught in it.
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Also his shockwave can be targeted as seen against George so he could probably do that if he wants more range but less AoE.
I also doubt Roar is gonna do anything to Ben except him giving a remark on how Tyrantrum's breath stinks.
I also doubt Roar is gonna do anything to Ben except him giving a remark on how Tyrantrum's breath stinks.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Humungousaur doesn't resist the effect of roar, so he runs away.
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Why doubt it? Does Ben resist fear-BFR hax? Being extremely brave doesn't give someone a resistance to fear hax by the way. I bet there is a pokemon that's described as "fearless" that it works on anyway.
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Does high willpower give a resistance? Also I think there might be some stuff with Zombozo using fear hax and Ben not being affected after a while but got no evidence for that for now so I guess we'll assume fear hax works.
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High will power? I doubt it. Abilities can block roar, but without an ability, I'm sure there are pokemon described as having iron wills that get fear haxed by it anyway. Pokemon with berserk personalities or berserk modes still get hit with it too.Greenshifter said:
I recall previous fights where doom guy got fear haxed despite being... doom guy.
The thing about fear hax is that it directly injects fear into your mind regardless of how fearful you are. You're instantly afraid even if it doesn't feel right. It's completely unlike natural intimidation which can easily be resisted with being fearless or overcame with will power.
But if Ben has resisted actual fear hax from Zombozo the clown or ghost freak, then that may do it... This extends to having will power to overcome hax rather than just natural emotions/circumstances, because then his will power turns into a resistance or at least an accelerated recovery.
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Wait wouldn't a resistance to mindhax/hypnosis (done by someone who mindhaxes) via willpower also cover fear hax then?
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Maybe. What does vs battles rules/standards say about "resisting via willpower"? It does at least imply that his will power isn't 'just will power' but has a slightly magical aspect to it.
I'm still somewhat new to vs battles.
I'm still somewhat new to vs battles.
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Generally it doesn't really matter how you resist something although with willpower it could point to a weakness within the ability and not really a magical aspect of the person having the willpower but this of course is evaluated on a case-by-case basis and Ben 10 is an especially difficult case with different aliens and the Omnitrix giving resistance to some stuff et etc.
For the people who are interested I am referring to Whampire's resistance to mindhax which was actually attributed to Ben's willpower by Lord Vladat although biology could have been a factor.
Ben also resisted hypnosis as Big Chill.
For the people who are interested I am referring to Whampire's resistance to mindhax which was actually attributed to Ben's willpower by Lord Vladat although biology could have been a factor.
Ben also resisted hypnosis as Big Chill.
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Zombozo used fear hax? When?
Ayewale
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Also, wait, isn't making Pokemon switch out/run away just a game mechanic? I don't think that can be applied here at all. Unless there's a showing of it in a manga/anime that proves that it just makes Humongasaur auto run-away.
Anyways, Tyranitary should be somewhere above 531 megatons of force, while Ult Humungasaur overpowers 100 352 tons with one shot and without much damage. I feel like they should be roughly equal, at least if we take into account reasoning. Ben also has far higher intelligence and potentially experience.
Anyways, Tyranitary should be somewhere above 531 megatons of force, while Ult Humungasaur overpowers 100 352 tons with one shot and without much damage. I feel like they should be roughly equal, at least if we take into account reasoning. Ben also has far higher intelligence and potentially experience.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,349
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Ayewale wrote
Anyways, Tyranitary should be somewhere above 531 megatons of force, while Ult Humungasaur overpowers 100 352 tons with one shot and without much damage. I feel like they should be roughly equal, at least if we take into account reasoning. Ben also has far higher intelligence and potentially experience.
Tyranitar has far more Versatility and also has a lot of combat experience via being his final evolution. Plus a bunch of stat amps.
Anyways, Tyranitary should be somewhere above 531 megatons of force, while Ult Humungasaur overpowers 100 352 tons with one shot and without much damage. I feel like they should be roughly equal, at least if we take into account reasoning. Ben also has far higher intelligence and potentially experience.
Tyranitar has far more Versatility and also has a lot of combat experience via being his final evolution. Plus a bunch of stat amps.
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No, the move description and the anime both point to it being legit fear hax.Ayewale said:
Tyrantrum has a large scaling chain above 531 megatons. I said it above, but essentially all (non-fodder) final stage Pokemon are stronger than Pupitar, including Omastar, Aerodactyl is stronger than Omastar, Cranidos can fight Aerodactyl, Rampardos is far stronger than Cranidos and Tyrantrum is even stronger than Rampardos.
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About it being game mechanics, in a G3 Hoenn game, there's an NPC. An old man to the left of Fallarbor town with a Poochyena in the overworld that gives you the TM. He says that his Poochyena's Roar does scare off any approaching Pokémon, much to his chagrin. So it's not game mechanics, gicen it actually happens outside of battle.
Ayewale
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I dunno what G3 Hoenn is, but assuming it's referring to Heartgold/Soulsilver or the original 2 then I guess thats' fair. But Roars' a temporary effect.
Plus, I looked through bulbapedia and Roar typically just makes the target scared and typically the target will either run away or be switched out into another Pokemon. Ben has fought opponents' that he's immensely afraid of before (a key example being Zombozo on multiple occurences) and was even able to straight up just stave off his fearhax. I don't think Roar will stop Ben.
Plus, I looked through bulbapedia and Roar typically just makes the target scared and typically the target will either run away or be switched out into another Pokemon. Ben has fought opponents' that he's immensely afraid of before (a key example being Zombozo on multiple occurences) and was even able to straight up just stave off his fearhax. I don't think Roar will stop Ben.
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@GyroNutz All right then so Roar will work. There is however much more to this fight. As I said before Ult. Humungousaur can counter Tyrantrum's range attacks and he also has enough skill to get up close (Ben at the end of UA should have similar skill with (Ultimate) Humungousaur than with Diamondhead in AF when he skillstomped Vilgax who has centuries of experience). Tyrantrum has an AP a advantage but I don't think he oneshots (can Cranidos hurt Ramparados?) and Ult. Humungousaur has a lifting strenght advantage which is very useful in CQC dino-wrestling.
Edit: Found the stuff with Zombozo and it's Ben actually being afraid of clowns even in OV (so much that Zombozo returned to full power because of Ben's fear of Grandpa Max as a clown and Ben only defeated him by fearhaxing Zombozo back by accident) so it was a counterfeat and not a feat lol.
Edit: Found the stuff with Zombozo and it's Ben actually being afraid of clowns even in OV (so much that Zombozo returned to full power because of Ben's fear of Grandpa Max as a clown and Ben only defeated him by fearhaxing Zombozo back by accident) so it was a counterfeat and not a feat lol.
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Roar is a great tactical tool in a battle where a few disadvantages are present. Speed is amazing at CQC, much more dangerous to deal with than at range (barring the opponent's dodging ability), that lifting strength will play into CQC and of course, great CQC ability in general. Tyrantrum could force a ranged fight and not only that, use every roar as an opportunity to dragon dance.
Sooner or later, even with only average pokemon-level intelligence, it's going to realise that roar and dragon dance combo into each other really well... Not only that, Tyrantrum will see that his earth quakes are getting blocked by ground pounds. He'll gain the AP advantage soon, which will let his earth quakes overpower the ground pounds, giving him one decent advantage that he can use in the ranged fight that he is enforcing through roar.
Plus, it'll close the speed advantage his opponent has. Not completely, but just a bit.
In short, this is what I think is his win con. Roar > Dragon dance > Earth quake.
Also worth noting... Tyrantrum has more stamina via "very high", he can drag out the fight no problem. In fact, I think Tyrantrum's stamina advantage is huge because "high" in pokemon is fighting for hours straight, making it seem like pokemon's "high" is higher than Ultimate Humungosaur's "high".
Sooner or later, even with only average pokemon-level intelligence, it's going to realise that roar and dragon dance combo into each other really well... Not only that, Tyrantrum will see that his earth quakes are getting blocked by ground pounds. He'll gain the AP advantage soon, which will let his earth quakes overpower the ground pounds, giving him one decent advantage that he can use in the ranged fight that he is enforcing through roar.
Plus, it'll close the speed advantage his opponent has. Not completely, but just a bit.
In short, this is what I think is his win con. Roar > Dragon dance > Earth quake.
Also worth noting... Tyrantrum has more stamina via "very high", he can drag out the fight no problem. In fact, I think Tyrantrum's stamina advantage is huge because "high" in pokemon is fighting for hours straight, making it seem like pokemon's "high" is higher than Ultimate Humungosaur's "high".
Ayewale
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Humungusaurs' species has apparently fought down Four Arms' species, who can fight on for days on end.SauceSorcery said:
Roar's fearhax still won't work, and I'm not sure it'll come to the Tyrantrum to even use Roar anyways. As it pokedex entry states 'Nothing could stop this Pokemon 100 million years ago, so it behaved like a king.' 'It was invincible in the ancient world in which it once inhabited'.' Thanks to its gargantuan jaws, which could shred thick metal plates as if they were paper, it was invincible in the ancient world it once inhabited. ' These statements-especially the first one-indicate that Tyrantrum didn't exactly win with tactical strategies and only won fights through pure AP. Also doesn't hurt that it would be extremely arrogant as a result, which is something Ben could easily exploit.
A ranged fight is exactly what Ben wants, he can keep up with it via his missiles and dodge all incoming attacks. And no, it would never realize that Roar and Dragon Dance combo together 'really well'. It probably wouldn't do more than blindly try to rip apart Ben using its' jaws (yes, it's jaws specifically).
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If Humungusaur can fight for as long as that species, then the stamina should be listed as "Very high' for that reason. If it defeated the species through anti-attrition means, then their stamina might be lower despite the victory.
The pokedex does not describe it as specifically being aggressive in its strategy, only that it was unmatched, which it could've done so for strategical or unstrategic reasons. Behaving like a king is more of an outside battle personality rather than an in-battle personality... Until we can use a pokedex to justify its intelligence, I don't see a case for its pokedex really defining what it can and can't do when other seemingly aggressive pokemon are not opposed to using status moves.
Tyrantrum's intelligence is unknown, we can't assume that it'll do something stupid. We can only assume that it'll act like the average pokemon, give or take, which is: A being hard wired for battle, fighting its entire life, vs things that are the same with their own strategies... This gives it like, 20 years of experience or so.
Plus, there are its battles as a Tyrunt where it doesn't have those pokedex entries to stand by (though Tyrunt acts immature) and there are battles where it has to fight another Tyrantrum.
This is why I want anime/manga depictions so we don't have to assume average pokemon intelligence and we can more conclusively say that it will or won't do something.
For now, I stand by the potential win con of roar> dragon dance>earth quake... Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's guaranteed to win, only that it could win this way.
The pokedex does not describe it as specifically being aggressive in its strategy, only that it was unmatched, which it could've done so for strategical or unstrategic reasons. Behaving like a king is more of an outside battle personality rather than an in-battle personality... Until we can use a pokedex to justify its intelligence, I don't see a case for its pokedex really defining what it can and can't do when other seemingly aggressive pokemon are not opposed to using status moves.
Tyrantrum's intelligence is unknown, we can't assume that it'll do something stupid. We can only assume that it'll act like the average pokemon, give or take, which is: A being hard wired for battle, fighting its entire life, vs things that are the same with their own strategies... This gives it like, 20 years of experience or so.
Plus, there are its battles as a Tyrunt where it doesn't have those pokedex entries to stand by (though Tyrunt acts immature) and there are battles where it has to fight another Tyrantrum.
This is why I want anime/manga depictions so we don't have to assume average pokemon intelligence and we can more conclusively say that it will or won't do something.
For now, I stand by the potential win con of roar> dragon dance>earth quake... Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's guaranteed to win, only that it could win this way.
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stamina doesn't actually have categories like intelligence does
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I will admit that stamina is done less by categories and more as "How long can it run for, how long can it fight for, what conditions can it fight in and how vigorously has it been forced to fight?"
Not something that can be categorised or measured easily, but at least it can be compared.
Might as well throw categories out the window and just give a set of descriptions of what the character should be able to do since in some cases, it's harder to measure than intelligence.
Not something that can be categorised or measured easily, but at least it can be compared.
Might as well throw categories out the window and just give a set of descriptions of what the character should be able to do since in some cases, it's harder to measure than intelligence.
