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Hetero Tower Upgrade Part 2/2

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AlipheeseXIV

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Introduction​

Hello everyone, welcome, today's CRT is quite the ambitious one and something I've had planned for months. First, special thanks to @Deonment and @Astral_Trinity439, you two were a massive help, without further ado let's get into it.

Starting Points​

To start things off, I'd like to begin by reviewing the standards for Low 1-A and utilizing various sources from the wiki to do so. As mentioned in the tiering system, Low 1-A is a tier wherein characters power is on the level of the Von Neumann Universe. Either encompassing, or affecting structures which encompass, the collection including all possible dimensional spaces. What I'd like to focus on is the text under; As a general rule-of-thumb, statements of being "above dimensions" and the like, whenever validly indicating a superiority over higher dimensions, fall under this tier without further context. The important part here is understanding that being "above dimensions" when validly indicating a superiority over higher dimensions is generally how one can qualify for Low 1-A. As by default statements of being above dimensions are set to Low 1-A, as are statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time" and before someone mentions it no, transcending all possible dimensions is not required to achieve Low 1-A.

Evidence​

To begin, we first need to start with Lee Hyperreal. As he is a "being" with the power to transcend beyond time and dimensions (translation) this statement is in reference to the version of himself who would ultimately "climb" and "ascend" the Hetero Tower. What is important is that Lee can only achieve this through utilizing the Hetero Tower's attributes, which he was only able to do thanks to future Nanami giving him access to the Heteromer Shard. It is not just because of his connection to the Tower that he is capable of doing all these things, but also due to a power source that comes from beyond both the Hetero Tower and Gate (which is computing power, more on that later). It is reaffirmed multiple times that the Hyperreal frame can transcend beyond time and dimensions (translation) and that with it Lee possesses the capacity to transcend time and space, with it being stated again here. Naturally, this would obviously be referring to a more substantial, more literal transcendence of spacetime than is typical across various fictions, refering to superiority over all of time and space which can be used to reach Low 1-A.

Our next piece of evidence stems from one of, if not the greatest mind within the verse and one of the most reputable sources within the series, not only because he has explored the Hetero Tower and Gate but also because he is the original creator of the "Keys". That man is none other than Dominik, who only further supports the other feats by saying that the Hetero Tower (in reference to the Gate) has powers that transcend dimensions. Lee upon reaching the Gate has his vision no longer limited by space, which is consistent with the previous statements, as dimensions are obviously what define space with Ishmael also saying the Gate is outside space itself.

Computing Power​

Now that the evidence has been presented, let's briefly go over what computing power is. I'm sure some of you saw the dimension transcending scan and began wondering what exactly it was, so allow me to explain. Within the verse computing power exists as a unique power source, it can be incredibly important for allowing characters to achieve various feats, at the lowest of levels it's nothing special. However, when coming from a powerful enough source, it can be used to achieve feats of unmatched scale. Such as powerful reality warping and even transcending higher dimensions, as was shown in one of the earlier scans, the higher the quality of computing power a character has the wider range of things they can achieve.

The only characters who utilize computing power in this fashion are Lee Hyperreal, Ishmael's various projections, The Punishing Virus and Nanami, due to the computing power they possess being directly sourced/given by characters who exist in higher realms, it allows them to utilize it to achieve levels of power beyond what would otherwise be possible. Notable examples to this thread in particular is Lee Hyperreal's computing power based off the Heteromer Shard which I did briefly touch up on earlier, which gave him the ability to freely travel through time, warp reality by molding worlds within the Hetero Tower through his very own cognition and even the aforementioned transcending of time and dimensions. He received the Heteromer Shard from future Nanami who exists as an administrator beyond the Gate of the Hetero Tower.

Now I'm aware we don't really need all of this, as at the end of the day Low 1-A is a quantitative tier, not a qualitative one like 1-A. However it is still something I thought was worth adding, to summarize though. The Hyperreal frame used the Heteromer Shard's computing power given by future Nanami, which in turn allowed Lee to undergo dimensional ascension transcending along a web woven with the fabric of time and space when utilizing the Hetero Tower and its attributes, and ultimately is what granted him the ability to transcend beyond time and dimensions.

Conclusion/TL;DR:-​

In short, the Gate of the Hetero Tower should receive a Low 1-A rating, as should characters who directly scale to or above it. Characters who physically scale to and/or above the Gate such as Lee Hyperreal, the Primal Projection, Future Nanami, Chaos, Ishmael and other Observers that I haven't yet made profiles for would also get Type 2 BDE. That's all for the proposal, have a good rest of the day.

Agree: SuperSonicTL, Astral_Trinity439, ActuallySpaceMan42, DarkDragonMedeus, Vesxpura, Elizhaa, Vietthai96, Xdsagecat, Mbpoops
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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Disagree coz I'm bias

Jokes aside though, I think the intentions were pretty clear here given how repeatedly dimensional transcendence was mentioned throughout the story, even going so far to emphasize "literal" dimensions here.

There is also the fact that the Gate itself lacks the concept of time and space altogether so it's most likely some form of metaphysical realm then your conventional ones.
 
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?. Didn't the Tower exist within the universe?. No way in hell it is Low 1-A but exist on Earth surface that is within the 4D universe, unless you want to claim the Universe is Low 1-A
 
?. Didn't the Tower exist within the universe?. No way in hell it is Low 1-A but exist on Earth surface that is within the 4D universe, unless you want to claim the Universe is Low 1-A
From my knowledge, the lower level of the tower itself acts more as a middle space between universes as per current rating whereas the upper level seems to reach beyond the confines of reality on a metaphysical scale altogether. So they are not really a part of the universe in that sense.
 
From my knowledge, the lower level of the tower itself acts more as a middle space between universes as per current rating whereas the upper level seems to reach beyond the confines of reality on a metaphysical scale altogether. So they are not really a part of the universe in that sense.
Either we have proof that the tower we see on Earth is simply a projection, at least the upper part based on your claim. It is a big anti-feat

Not only that but also most of the claims was just transcending dimensions and time which along with them talking about time as in the past, present and future, not literal dimension, you can argue that transcending dimensions is not literal Low 1-A transcendence and just kind of you can go outside space-time, dimensions; the same can be argued for the scan talking about "is not limit by space", which simply being outside of it can mean the same thing

Of course you can intepreting these statements as Low 1-A, but i do not have good feeling about this. Anyway, i need to see the if there are any evidence that can solve the Hetero Tower issues before voting
 
Either we have proof that the tower we see on Earth is simply a projection, at least the upper part based on your claim. It is a big anti-feat

Not only that but also most of the claims was just transcending dimensions and time which along with them talking about time as in the past, present and future, not literal dimension, you can argue that transcending dimensions is not literal Low 1-A transcendence and just kind of you can go outside space-time, dimensions; the same can be argued for the scan talking about "is not limit by space", which simply being outside of it can mean the same thing

Of course you can intepreting these statements as Low 1-A, but i do not have good feeling about this. Anyway, i need to see the if there are any evidence that can solve the Hetero Tower issues before voting
Think of the towers as nodes that links universes across the multiverse. Hence, rather than being just physical structures, they seem to function as gateways to higher layers of material world till they reach realms beyond what we can physically comprehend as that is what narratively upper level of the tower ensues with the provided evidence. Also, @AlipheeseXIV can explain the nature of tower better to you so let's wait for him before we advance further.
 
That still don't make the tower Low 1-A in tier, at best Low 1-A range
 
That still don't make the tower Low 1-A in tier, at best Low 1-A range
Then what about Lee possessing computational power to transcend all dimensions? That seems like a fairly reasonable justification for Low 1-A rather than merely a matter of range considering dimensional transcendence itself is usually treated as qualitative superiority over dimensional structures in general
 
They was talking about moldinh the worlds within the Hetero Tower, and so the tower is the integral to the Low 1-A thing, if the towet isn't Low 1-A then no one is Low 1-A, probably excludes Ishamel true form. The youtube video also literally talking about Lee losing his dimensional ascension power if he can't enter the Tower, and most of the transcending dimensions stuff is for the Tower
 
They was talking about moldinh the worlds within the Hetero Tower, and so the tower is the integral to the Low 1-A thing, if the towet isn't Low 1-A then no one is Low 1-A, probably excludes Ishamel true form. The youtube video also literally talking about Lee losing his dimensional ascension power if he can't enter the Tower, and most of the transcending dimensions stuff is for the Tower
Alright I understand your issue. Firstly, you need to understand how the tower works. The tower itself means nothing as it appears — what matters is where it takes us to from inside. The upper level (or the gate) exists beyond the thresholds of the world (including the Hetero Tower itself) and is where true transcendence happens. The tower itself is not a factor at all. It merely acts as a means to reach the gate which is what qualifies for Low 1-A. Do not confuse these two ideas.

Onto the second point, Lee lost his power as per the Gate and its "rules". Again, tower itself has nothing to do anything here.
 
?. Didn't the Tower exist within the universe?. No way in hell it is Low 1-A but exist on Earth surface that is within the 4D universe, unless you want to claim the Universe is Low 1-A
You're confusing a lot, for starters, the Tower that exists on the planet is not its true form, also the Tower is not what's receiving an upgrade, it's the Gate they are two entirely different things
 
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Either we have proof that the tower we see on Earth is simply a projection, at least the upper part based on your claim. It is a big anti-feat
This was already taken care of in a recent CRT, also I recommend you check the scans again. For the sake of argumentation, say we go along with this postulate of yours that the Hetero Tower is only on Earth and that the form of it that we see isn't just a projection that was constructed from the PV. Well, we already have multiple scans that completely contradict this, we also just had a CRT accepted to get it to L1C for possessing it's own time dimension, so the claim of it scaling to the normal universe just doesn't make any sense. However, we can still use the following scans to further cement this fact
Naturally it is impossible for it to do these things if it was actually the size that we see on Earth, it just wouldn't make any logical sense.
Not only that but also most of the claims was just transcending dimensions and time which along with them talking about time as in the past, present and future, not literal dimension, you can argue that transcending dimensions is not literal Low 1-A transcendence and just kind of you can go outside space-time, dimensions; the same can be argued for the scan talking about "is not limit by space", which simply being outside of it can mean the same thing
Definitely not the case, Lee already had complete control over all universes before ever reaching the Gate, he could mold the worlds inside the Hetero Tower through his cognition before reaching the Gate, and most importantly the Gate itself sees all of time and space as a map. It is without a doubt referring to dimensions as in a valid superiority over higher dimensions.
They was talking about moldinh the worlds within the Hetero Tower, and so the tower is the integral to the Low 1-A thing, if the towet isn't Low 1-A then no one is Low 1-A, probably excludes Ishamel true form. The youtube video also literally talking about Lee losing his dimensional ascension power if he can't enter the Tower, and most of the transcending dimensions stuff is for the Tower
Nothing here has anything to do with the Gate, the Gate and the Tower are not the same thing. In fact they legit don't even exist in the same space, this has been accepted for a very long time and was why the Gate has +1D over the Tower to begin with. Yes, the Gate can be reached through the Hetero Tower, which is what Ishmael was referring to, but that has nothing to do with them being the same. Again, I will go in with the hypothetical that your postulate is true then explain why it logically would not work
  1. As I already mentioned before the Gate sees all of time and space as a map
  2. The Gate is accepted as being 1C possibly 1B while the Hetero Tower is L1C. This could not be the case if they were the same
  3. The Gate exists outside space, while the Hetero Tower is officially referred to as a spacetime continuum
  4. Ishmael directly refers to the Gate and the Hetero Tower as two different places which is why she says to Lee that he was able to find his way here utilizing the Hetero Tower and its attributes
This just would not work or make any sense with these scans in mind, forget Low 1-A, how would we have possibly gotten 1C/Possibly 1B if the things you said were true?
 
Not only that but also most of the claims was just transcending dimensions and time which along with them talking about time as in the past, present and future, not literal dimension, you can argue that transcending dimensions is not literal Low 1-A transcendence and just kind of you can go outside space-time, dimensions; the same can be argued for the scan talking about "is not limit by space", which simply being outside of it can mean the same thing
How do you interpret a statement like that as not being literal?
Time being past, present, and future is just what time is, claiming that somehow leads dimension in this context to not mean dimension is an assumption that I find wild, especially when the statements about the hyperreal frame speak about it transcending dimensions and space in equal regard, in the exact same manner.
This isn't even a matter of the transcending being a vague metaphor for a character able to travel across these things with ease, or in the sense of an adimensional thing like a scalar; it's explicitly showcased that the transcendence in question is referring to the character's existing above the reality and the things in question
 
Oh, eh, now that i remember i had translated this in the 1-B thread, well yeah it is dimensionality so i'm fine with the Low 1-A now

The issue is still there, i can see the Gate and what beyond it is Low 1-A, but not the Tower
 
Oh, eh, now that i remember i had translated this in the 1-B thread, well yeah it is dimensionality so i'm fine with the Low 1-A now

The issue is still there, i can see the Gate and what beyond it is Low 1-A, but not the Tower
I think maybe the thread title confused you a bit, the only thing being upgraded to L1A in this CRT is the Gate and anything that lies beyond it, not the Hetero Tower, it will remain L1C. If that confusion has been cleared up, I'll put you as agreeing with the CRT
 
  • The second one is fine, if a little bit clunky in language, although the meaning still comes across accurately.
  • The third one is mostly fine; the noun form "dimensionality" would be more accurate than "dimensions".
I'll do the rest as soon as I finish some urgent work on my end.
 
Huh I thought I was already following this. Either way to confirm, the argument is l1a gate cus it gave lee the power to transcend beyond dimensions? Sorry it's been a bit since iv read chapter 21.

If so agree fra
 
The Gate would make sense based on the evidence.
Or the Core

But I have an issue where
There are statements where it is said that the Gate is created by Selene
or Dominik's and Luna, who can become the Key to destroy its Core
The key is something made of HeteroCrystal

and Agent Zero creating the Hetero-Tower, but somehow being limited in its capabilities on his own, without the Tower

implying the Gate existed before the Tower

And while the Core seems a valid alternative to the Gate.

i just need context on these instances
 
Bro, why'd you wait till the CRT was done, well lemme see if I get the time to post a reply before this is closed, otherwise I'll tell you in the server/dms if its closed before I get to write it out
 
The Gate would make sense based on the evidence.
Or the Core
Nah, no core, just the Gate. The only time the core is used for scaling is after Lee rewrites it using the power he obtained after entering the Gate, and this isn't applicable to anyone except Cradle through the potency of her corruption after like seven years worth of REing and getting fed information belonging to the Gate from Vonnegut who had reached it at one point. Other than that, it's just range
But I have an issue where
There are statements where it is said that the Gate is created by Selene
or Dominik's and Luna, who can become the Key to destroy its Core
The key is something made of HeteroCrystal

and Agent Zero creating the Hetero-Tower, but somehow being limited in its capabilities on his own, without the Tower
Yeah, well there are multiple gates, the only one that's applicable for L1A is specifically the one where Lee fights Primal Projection.
Edit: Or the ones we have heard that exist beyond that one (but not applicable since we literally know nothing about it nor is it apart of this CRT)

The entire Tower is made of Hetero Crystals, as Hetero Crystals are just Chaos Contamination, hence why Agent Zero (who's literally CC in physical form) is its creator
implying the Gate existed before the Tower
Correct
And while the Core seems a valid alternative to the Gate.

i just need context on these instances
I believe what I said above should've answered this question
 
Alright, fair, so the Other Gate that was created wasn't the same Gate as the Observer and Lee fought in.
Bro, why'd you wait till the CRT was done, well lemme see if I get the time to post a reply before this is closed, otherwise I'll tell you in the server/dms if its closed before I get to write it out
better than someone making a CRT afterwards asking this same question lmao. Also i just came back from hospital so i was somewhat off the wiki for a few days
 
Alright, fair, so the Other Gate that was created wasn't the same Gate as the Observer and Lee fought in.
Yeah nah, that's why they only scale to L1C, it was some months ago when the story came out that the distinction was properly made
better than someone making a CRT afterwards asking this same question lmao. Also i just came back from hospital so i was somewhat off the wiki for a few days
💔
True, lmao, also damn, hope it was for nothing serious and wb man
 
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