Analytical prediction should have it’s own page

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

When we gonna apply the edits?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Since everyone seems to agree with editing the precog page (almost everyone)

 

[Promestein]

Fine with the Precog page being edited.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

let me know when you guys are done so someone can close this please thanks

 

[Antvasima]

I think they should stay one page. They're both different ways of predicting the future and at higher levels Analytical Prediction is functionally the same aside from minor details. It's not the job of pages to account for minor details and character's variations in powers, so one page. That's my take and I'll stand by it.

I feel like they can stay one page, but the Precog page should actually acknowledge the existence of Analytical Prediction, because it doesn’t atm.

I also agree with this.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Alright let me know when’s it’s done so someone can lock this

 

[Arkenis]

what is being applied?

 

[First_Witch]

I personally disagree with the two abilities being meshed together like this. They have basically nothing in common other than the fact that they allow users to predict the next move of their opponent, to oversimplify this.

Not only are they wildly different in mechanics, with basic precognition involving future sight, while basic Analytical Prediction relies on physically present cues to read from, one is usually, free of caveats, unfallible (Precognition), while AnaPre CAN fail. Not only that, they are resisted on completly different factors of existance; A acausal being isn't resisting getting its musclemovements read, nor does having a unpredictable fighting style that bypassed someones AnaPre grant that character resistance to Precognition.

And saying that they should remain together because their effect is basically the same is weak as well, thats like trying to can fire/ice manipulation because heat manipulation exist. And why stop there, you could make a similar case for Mindreading, its most often than not used to "see" the future action of the opponent as well.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I personally disagree with the two abilities being meshed together like this. They have basically nothing in common other than the fact that they allow users to predict the next move of their opponent, to oversimplify this.

Not only are they wildly different in mechanics, with basic precognition involving future sight, while basic Analytical Prediction relies on physically present cues to read from, one is usually, free of caveats, unfallible (Precognition), while AnaPre CAN fail. Not only that, they are resisted on completly different factors of existance; A acausal being isn't resisting getting its musclemovements read, nor does having a unpredictable fighting style that bypassed someones AnaPre grant that character resistance to Precognition.

And saying that they should remain together because their effect is basically the same is weak as well, thats like trying to can fire/ice manipulation because heat manipulation exist. And why stop there, you could make a similar case for Mindreading, its most often than not used to "see" the future action of the opponent as well.

So you agree with @ElajRuengies?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Agreed

Dale you wanna apply the edits?

 

[Dalesean027]

Dale you wanna apply the edits?

What are the edits?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

What are the edits?

Tbh after what @First_Witch said I think we should wait a bit more actually

 

[Dalesean027]

Tbh after what @First_Witch said I think we should wait a bit more actually

Okay and I can't do it rn anyways I rarely have time to apply big revisions

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I agree wholeheartedly with First Witch
And honestly if Analytical Prediction is never gonna get its own page again, it should be rolled into Information Analysis instead, since it quite plainly works by analyzing information to make predictions of varying accuracy, as opposed to getting actual foresight that precog entails.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree wholeheartedly with First Witch
And honestly if Analytical Prediction is never gonna get its own page again, it should be rolled into Information Analysis instead, since it quite plainly works by analyzing information to make predictions of varying accuracy, as opposed to getting actual foresight that precog entails.

That makes sense

 

[ShakeResounding]

Artori, and I'm saying this in the best-meaning way possible, but the last few posts you made are needlessly clogging the thread. Just like posts you agree with instead of quoting them and wait for a better consensus to be reached. This is supposed to be a staff thread, we should avoid clogging it.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree wholeheartedly with First Witch
And honestly if Analytical Prediction is never gonna get its own page again, it should be rolled into Information Analysis instead, since it quite plainly works by analyzing information to make predictions of varying accuracy, as opposed to getting actual foresight that precog entails.

We've gone far beyond that point. Analytical Prediction cannot fall under Info Analysis because the latter isn't really used to predict future oncoming events but rather is solely focused on analyzing an item and its qualities and characteristics.

Most of the staff have agreed to add a section for Analytical Predition in the Precognition page. We should just go with that instead.

 

[First_Witch]

And I disagree with that verdict immensly. We are literally shoving in 2 completly unrelated abilities together, that differ in mechanics, levels of existance they impact and even results, because they "do the same" in the most simplistic terms, when said argumentation could not only apply to other groups of abilities, but are an even worse case of that, like Heat Manipulation vs Fire/Ice Manipulation.

 

[KLOL506]

"Heat Manipulation vs Fire/Ice Manipulation" is just a very bad comparison IMHO, Fire and Ice Manip are creating fires and ice respectfully, Heat Manip is manipulating the temperature value.

 

[First_Witch]

"Heat Manipulation vs Fire/Ice Manipulation" is just a very bad comparison IMHO, Fire and Ice Manip are creating fires and ice respectfully, Heat Manip is manipulating the temperature value.

I knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end.

Like, is everyone just going to ignore the fact that resisting proper Future Sight, like actually seeing the future, would not grant said user resistance to AnaPre? And vice versa? Like, having acausality isnt stopping Super Katana Samurai man Joe Schmoe from reading how your muscles twitch, how your gaze shifts around, how your blood pulses etc, nor does Joe Schmoe being able to hide all his vital senses to fool and mock the AnaPre of Ken Schen protect Joe from Psyker Adam the great looking 5 seconds into the future to see to what tomfoolery Joe Schmoe is up to.

Those abilities dont interact with each other in any way and yet we want to pretend that they belong to the same family?

 

[Arkenis]

Alright fine since I guess I'm responsible for this-

Basically my argument for Analytical Prediction having it's own page was due to how while it was treated as a sub-type of Precognition, 1. It doesn't involve seeing the future so it just isn't Precognition, and 2. There are enough sub-types of Analytical Prediction to give it a page of it's own. Here are the types I can think of right off the bat-

Trajectory Prediction: The ability to extrapolate the future path of an object based on it's speed and direction relative to oneself, possibly even taking into account acceleration and/or curved paths. Usually reliant on eyesight, although this can be done with very acute hearing or touch as well. When used to avoid linearly traveling projectiles far faster than oneself, this is called Aim Dodging.

Body Language Prediction: The ability to determine one's future actions based on microexpressions, the tensing of specific muscles, subtle changes in breathing, and the like. Characters using some kind of internal spiritual energy may have their future moves given away by changes in this too.

Behavioral Prediction: The ability to determine an opponent's future actions based on acculmulated knowledge of their past actions, habits, personality, and similar traits. What the Batman Gambit requires.

• "I dodged his punch by immediately calculating the future path of his fist upon seeing his arm begin to accelerate." is Trajectory Prediction
• "I dodged his punch by noticing how he stepped his foot back, and ducked out of the way of the area he was shifting his weight over." is Body Language Prediction
• "I dodged his punch by realizing that he always goes for a straight with his right arm whenever he gets close enough to his opponents in past matches." is Behavioral Prediction

None of these kinds of Analytical Prediction, or "Precognition" involve seeing the Future- Trajectory and Body Language Prediction involve analyzing the Present, while Behavioral Prediction involves analyzing the Past- and having resistance to one doesn't necessarily meaning having resistance to the other two. Additionally, it's possible if not common for characters to utilize all three kinds of Analytical Prediction.

All of this nuance is lost in Analytical Prediction's current form- as a subtype of Precognition that isn't even properly listed on the page.

I think the fact this was cooked up shows how important Analytical Prediction should be its own page honestly. This would also need to be put onto the Precog page to detail the many aspects of Analytical Prediction has on its own as well which would just begin to make the Precog page really the Analytical Prediction page.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Have to agree, Analytical Prediction should be it's own page.

 

[Flashlight237]

I'm fine with either Analytical Prediction being lumped under precognition and adding the subtypes ElajRuengies suggested or splitting Analytical Prediction from Precog. I wouldn't care which route it goes tbh.

 

[Dalesean027]

I knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end.

Like, is everyone just going to ignore the fact that resisting proper Future Sight, like actually seeing the future, would not grant said user resistance to AnaPre? And vice versa? Like, having acausality isnt stopping Super Katana Samurai man Joe Schmoe from reading how your muscles twitch, how your gaze shifts around, how your blood pulses etc, nor does Joe Schmoe being able to hide all his vital senses to fool and mock the AnaPre of Ken Schen protect Joe from Psyker Adam the great looking 5 seconds into the future to see to what tomfoolery Joe Schmoe is up to.

Those abilities dont interact with each other in any way and yet we want to pretend that they belong to the same family?

Yeah this is making a bunch of sense to me tbh I'm agreeing based off of this

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

But yeah, merging powers just because they reach a similar result is silly, by that logic we'd combine type 5 acausality with NEP as they reach the similar outcome of being difficult to interact with at all

 

[KLOL506]

I knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end.

Like, is everyone just going to ignore the fact that resisting proper Future Sight, like actually seeing the future, would not grant said user resistance to AnaPre? And vice versa? Like, having acausality isnt stopping Super Katana Samurai man Joe Schmoe from reading how your muscles twitch, how your gaze shifts around, how your blood pulses etc, nor does Joe Schmoe being able to hide all his vital senses to fool and mock the AnaPre of Ken Schen protect Joe from Psyker Adam the great looking 5 seconds into the future to see to what tomfoolery Joe Schmoe is up to.

Those abilities dont interact with each other in any way and yet we want to pretend that they belong to the same family?

@Promestein @LordTracer

 

[LordTracer]

While I did say that I thought they could remain one page, I see the benefit of giving AP its own page as well, so I’m fine with that

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yeah, same with LT.

 

[Arkenis]

nicee. when can it be applied?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

nicee. when can it be applied?

i'm working on a analytical prediction page,

I just need some time

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

It's a bit messy but uh it's complete, what do you think guys

Summary was from what @ElajRuengies said so i credit him for this.

(is there anything that could use more work?)

 

[Arkenis]

It's a bit messy but uh it's complete, what do you think guys

Summary was from what @ElajRuengies said so i credit him for this.

(is there anything that could use more work?)

missing ) on the characters example.

I believe another one should be given for the highly intelligent characters being able to predict plans and the like from having high intelligence and on some accounts characters with info analysis being able to predict which hax and combat style a character would engage them with.

Or: You can simply put "Other" and explain that characters with genius intelligence should be capable of replicating one or all three of the predictions mentioned above. As we know people like L and Light can predict one another's next plans while never seeing each other, or characters such as Aizen planning and deceiving the captains and framing Urahara.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

T

missing ) on the characters example.

I believe another one should be given for the highly intelligent characters being able to predict plans and the like from having high intelligence and on some accounts characters with info analysis being able to predict which hax and combat style a character would engage them with.

Or: You can simply put "Other" and explain that characters with genius intelligence should be capable of replicating one or all three of the predictions mentioned above. As we know people like L and Light can predict one another's next plans while never seeing each other, or characters such as Aizen planning and deceiving the captains and framing Urahara.

thanks Man will do

 

[LordTracer]

You could add Cassandra Cain to the examples. Analytical Prediction, specifically body language reading, is her main thing.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

missing ) on the characters example.

I believe another one should be given for the highly intelligent characters being able to predict plans and the like from having high intelligence and on some accounts characters with info analysis being able to predict which hax and combat style a character would engage them with.

Or: You can simply put "Other" and explain that characters with genius intelligence should be capable of replicating one or all three of the predictions mentioned above. As we know people like L and Light can predict one another's next plans while never seeing each other, or characters such as Aizen planning and deceiving the captains and framing Urahara.

You could add Cassandra Cain to the examples. Analytical Prediction, specifically body language reading, is her main thing.

Done

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You could add Cassandra Cain to the examples. Analytical Prediction, specifically body language reading, is her main thing.

Would Sherlock Holmes be another good example, given the notoriety of his particular showing?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Would Sherlock Holmes be another good example, given the notoriety of his particular showing?

Maybe but I think we have enough characters for users of this power

edit: and for the genius intelligence section we’ve already given examples as well

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

,

Excuse me but uh can the article be applied now or do we still need more staff to agree or is there a grace waiting period that still hasn’t been finished yet?

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

It's a bit messy but uh it's complete, what do you think guys

Summary was from what @ElajRuengies said so i credit him for this.

(is there anything that could use more work?)

The initial draft was actually messy, but I have made some revisions to hopefully address this issue.

Please review the changes and let me know if they are satisfactory.

Excuse me but uh can the article be applied now or do we still need more staff to agree or is there a grace waiting period that still hasn’t been finished yet?

Waiting for more staff to agree is likely the safer option before implementing any changes.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The initial draft was actually messy, but I have made some revisions to hopefully address this issue.

Please review the changes and let me know if they are satisfactory.


Waiting for more staff to agree is likely the safer option before implementing any changes.

Looks more neater thanks butler