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When we gonna apply the edits?
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I think they should stay one page. They're both different ways of predicting the future and at higher levels Analytical Prediction is functionally the same aside from minor details. It's not the job of pages to account for minor details and character's variations in powers, so one page. That's my take and I'll stand by it.
I also agree with this.I feel like they can stay one page, but the Precog page should actually acknowledge the existence of Analytical Prediction, because it doesn’t atm.
So you agree with @ElajRuengies?I personally disagree with the two abilities being meshed together like this. They have basically nothing in common other than the fact that they allow users to predict the next move of their opponent, to oversimplify this.
Not only are they wildly different in mechanics, with basic precognition involving future sight, while basic Analytical Prediction relies on physically present cues to read from, one is usually, free of caveats, unfallible (Precognition), while AnaPre CAN fail. Not only that, they are resisted on completly different factors of existance; A acausal being isn't resisting getting its musclemovements read, nor does having a unpredictable fighting style that bypassed someones AnaPre grant that character resistance to Precognition.
And saying that they should remain together because their effect is basically the same is weak as well, thats like trying to can fire/ice manipulation because heat manipulation exist. And why stop there, you could make a similar case for Mindreading, its most often than not used to "see" the future action of the opponent as well.
Dale you wanna apply the edits?Agreed
What are the edits?Dale you wanna apply the edits?
Tbh after what @First_Witch said I think we should wait a bit more actuallyWhat are the edits?
Okay and I can't do it rn anyways I rarely have time to apply big revisionsTbh after what @First_Witch said I think we should wait a bit more actually
That makes senseI agree wholeheartedly with First Witch
And honestly if Analytical Prediction is never gonna get its own page again, it should be rolled into Information Analysis instead, since it quite plainly works by analyzing information to make predictions of varying accuracy, as opposed to getting actual foresight that precog entails.
We've gone far beyond that point. Analytical Prediction cannot fall under Info Analysis because the latter isn't really used to predict future oncoming events but rather is solely focused on analyzing an item and its qualities and characteristics.I agree wholeheartedly with First Witch
And honestly if Analytical Prediction is never gonna get its own page again, it should be rolled into Information Analysis instead, since it quite plainly works by analyzing information to make predictions of varying accuracy, as opposed to getting actual foresight that precog entails.
I knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end."Heat Manipulation vs Fire/Ice Manipulation" is just a very bad comparison IMHO, Fire and Ice Manip are creating fires and ice respectfully, Heat Manip is manipulating the temperature value.
I think the fact this was cooked up shows how important Analytical Prediction should be its own page honestly. This would also need to be put onto the Precog page to detail the many aspects of Analytical Prediction has on its own as well which would just begin to make the Precog page really the Analytical Prediction page.Alright fine since I guess I'm responsible for this-
Basically my argument for Analytical Prediction having it's own page was due to how while it was treated as a sub-type of Precognition, 1. It doesn't involve seeing the future so it just isn't Precognition, and 2. There are enough sub-types of Analytical Prediction to give it a page of it's own. Here are the types I can think of right off the bat-
Trajectory Prediction: The ability to extrapolate the future path of an object based on it's speed and direction relative to oneself, possibly even taking into account acceleration and/or curved paths. Usually reliant on eyesight, although this can be done with very acute hearing or touch as well. When used to avoid linearly traveling projectiles far faster than oneself, this is called Aim Dodging.
Body Language Prediction: The ability to determine one's future actions based on microexpressions, the tensing of specific muscles, subtle changes in breathing, and the like. Characters using some kind of internal spiritual energy may have their future moves given away by changes in this too.
Behavioral Prediction: The ability to determine an opponent's future actions based on acculmulated knowledge of their past actions, habits, personality, and similar traits. What the Batman Gambit requires.
None of these kinds of Analytical Prediction, or "Precognition" involve seeing the Future- Trajectory and Body Language Prediction involve analyzing the Present, while Behavioral Prediction involves analyzing the Past- and having resistance to one doesn't necessarily meaning having resistance to the other two. Additionally, it's possible if not common for characters to utilize all three kinds of Analytical Prediction.
- "I dodged his punch by immediately calculating the future path of his fist upon seeing his arm begin to accelerate." is Trajectory Prediction
- "I dodged his punch by noticing how he stepped his foot back, and ducked out of the way of the area he was shifting his weight over." is Body Language Prediction
- "I dodged his punch by realizing that he always goes for a straight with his right arm whenever he gets close enough to his opponents in past matches." is Behavioral Prediction
All of this nuance is lost in Analytical Prediction's current form- as a subtype of Precognition that isn't even properly listed on the page.
Yeah this is making a bunch of sense to me tbh I'm agreeing based off of thisI knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end.
Like, is everyone just going to ignore the fact that resisting proper Future Sight, like actually seeing the future, would not grant said user resistance to AnaPre? And vice versa? Like, having acausality isnt stopping Super Katana Samurai man Joe Schmoe from reading how your muscles twitch, how your gaze shifts around, how your blood pulses etc, nor does Joe Schmoe being able to hide all his vital senses to fool and mock the AnaPre of Ken Schen protect Joe from Psyker Adam the great looking 5 seconds into the future to see to what tomfoolery Joe Schmoe is up to.
Those abilities dont interact with each other in any way and yet we want to pretend that they belong to the same family?
@Promestein @LordTracerI knew someone is going to laser focused onto it like that. OBVIOUSLY they are different in the end, even if clear overlapp in their result exist. That was my point, mechanics matter and we dont treat abilities the same just because they ultimately do similar things in the end.
Like, is everyone just going to ignore the fact that resisting proper Future Sight, like actually seeing the future, would not grant said user resistance to AnaPre? And vice versa? Like, having acausality isnt stopping Super Katana Samurai man Joe Schmoe from reading how your muscles twitch, how your gaze shifts around, how your blood pulses etc, nor does Joe Schmoe being able to hide all his vital senses to fool and mock the AnaPre of Ken Schen protect Joe from Psyker Adam the great looking 5 seconds into the future to see to what tomfoolery Joe Schmoe is up to.
Those abilities dont interact with each other in any way and yet we want to pretend that they belong to the same family?
i'm working on a analytical prediction page,nicee. when can it be applied?
missing ) on the characters example.It's a bit messy but uh it's complete, what do you think guys
Summary was from what @ElajRuengies said so i credit him for this.
(is there anything that could use more work?)
thanks Man will domissing ) on the characters example.
I believe another one should be given for the highly intelligent characters being able to predict plans and the like from having high intelligence and on some accounts characters with info analysis being able to predict which hax and combat style a character would engage them with.
Or: You can simply put "Other" and explain that characters with genius intelligence should be capable of replicating one or all three of the predictions mentioned above. As we know people like L and Light can predict one another's next plans while never seeing each other, or characters such as Aizen planning and deceiving the captains and framing Urahara.
missing ) on the characters example.
I believe another one should be given for the highly intelligent characters being able to predict plans and the like from having high intelligence and on some accounts characters with info analysis being able to predict which hax and combat style a character would engage them with.
Or: You can simply put "Other" and explain that characters with genius intelligence should be capable of replicating one or all three of the predictions mentioned above. As we know people like L and Light can predict one another's next plans while never seeing each other, or characters such as Aizen planning and deceiving the captains and framing Urahara.
You could add Cassandra Cain to the examples. Analytical Prediction, specifically body language reading, is her main thing.
Would Sherlock Holmes be another good example, given the notoriety of his particular showing?You could add Cassandra Cain to the examples. Analytical Prediction, specifically body language reading, is her main thing.
Maybe but I think we have enough characters for users of this powerWould Sherlock Holmes be another good example, given the notoriety of his particular showing?
Excuse me but uh can the article be applied now or do we still need more staff to agree or is there a grace waiting period that still hasn’t been finished yet?
The initial draft was actually messy, but I have made some revisions to hopefully address this issue.It's a bit messy but uh it's complete, what do you think guys
Summary was from what @ElajRuengies said so i credit him for this.
(is there anything that could use more work?)
Waiting for more staff to agree is likely the safer option before implementing any changes.Excuse me but uh can the article be applied now or do we still need more staff to agree or is there a grace waiting period that still hasn’t been finished yet?
Looks more neater thanks butlerThe initial draft was actually messy, but I have made some revisions to hopefully address this issue.
Please review the changes and let me know if they are satisfactory.
Waiting for more staff to agree is likely the safer option before implementing any changes.