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An upgrade for The Presence

Elizio33

Elizio33

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
3,308
3,117
Hello! 👋🏽

This thread will deal with the topic of god tiers of Crisis Cosmology, starting off with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

The above name was used more exclusively in Grant Morrison's Final Crisis and Multiversity and in some of Grant's interviews, but was not mentioned elsewhere, but the name Overvoid, however, was used more frequently by different authors. Thus, i suggests we rename the page "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" to "The Overvoid" since the second name doesn't seem too Morrison-centric.

This is the first point.

Second, we should elaborate more on the God of this cosmology (Presence) and on The Source and The Light.

In the events of The Flash Vol 6 13, the Source and the Light were referred to interchangeably by Wally West. Justice League Incarnate Vol 1 4 tied the Overvoid with the Great Darkness from Swamp Thing Vol 2 49-50, combined with the origins of creation told in Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 1, which clearly depicts the Overvoid as the "Light". In this respect, these entities are identical.

And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness. This has been emphasized many times as many stories spoke of a Earth when it was "without form" and "void" and then God brought light so that everything would no longer be nothing. This is in agreement with what was said in JLI 4 when it was said that in the beginning there was only darkness until the burning light came. This means that Light/Source are a product of God. This should be explained in the DC Cosmology blog.

Now that the second point is made, let's talk about the third.

The Presence (God) should be 0. There is evidence of this upgrade as God transcends opposites and the war between Light and Darkness. He silently observes Creation and breathed everything into existence to a point where time is no time and space is no space as such, God is non-dual, timeless, boundless and unchanging, without beginning or end, one with the void. According to different belief systems, God has many forms and appearances, but all agree that there is one God Beyond Gods who is the true source of all creation.

To summarize: "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" should be renamed "The Overvoid" instead. Expand the explanation of the relationship that the Source and the Light have with each other and with the Presence. Upgrade the Presence to Tier 0 (Boundless).

Thank you! :)
 
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Elizio33 said:
Hello! 👋🏽

This thread will deal with the topic of god tiers of Crisis Cosmology, starting off with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

The above name was used more exclusively in Grant Morrison's Final Crisis and Multiversity and in some of Grant's interviews, but was not mentioned elsewhere, but the name Overvoid, however, was used more frequently by different authors. Thus, i suggests we rename the page "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" to "The Overvoid" since the second name doesn't seem too Morrison-centric.

This is the first point.

Second, we should elaborate more on the God of this cosmology (Presence) and on The Source and The Light.

In the events of The Flash Vol 6 13, the Source and the Light were referred to interchangeably by Wally West. Justice League Incarnate Vol 1 4 tied the Overvoid with the Great Darkness from Swamp Thing Vol 2 49-50, combined with the origins of creation told in Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 1, which clearly depicts the Overvoid as the "Light". In this respect, these entities are identical.

And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness. This has been emphasized many times as many stories spoke of a Earth when it was "without form" and "void" and then God brought light so that everything would no longer be nothing. This means that Light/Source are a product of God. This should be explained in the DC Cosmology blog.

Now that the second point is made, let's talk about the third.

The Presence (God) should be 0. There is evidence of this upgrade as God transcends opposites and the war between Light and Darkness. He silently observes Creation and breathed everything into existence to a point where time is no time and space is no space as such, God is non-dual, timeless, boundless and unchanging, without beginning or end, one with the void. According to different belief systems, God has many forms and appearances, but all agree that there is one God Beyond Gods who is the true source of all creation.

To summarize: "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" should be renamed "The Overvoid" instead. Expand the explanation of the relationship that the Source and the Light have with each other and with the Presence. Upgrade the Presence to Tier 0 (Boundless).

Thank you! :)
Click to expand...
Isn’t the presence already tier 0 though?
 
Your scans aren't really in order. Also, I don't really see where God is non-dual, beyond all opposites, and above the Light and Darkness. By any chance are you missing scans ?
 
 
Elizio33 said:
And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness
Click to expand...
Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?
 
Weaver261 said:
Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?
Click to expand...
The Creator is 0 and 0 exists independently from anything. Perpetua is just 1-A and the same with the Source/Light as an aspect of the Presence(the Voice) which is an aspect of the Creator God or the true form of the Presence.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
The Creator is 0 and 0 exists independently from anything. Perpetua is just 1-A and the same with the Source/Light as an aspect of the Presence(the Voice) which is an aspect of the Creator God or the true form of the Presence.
Click to expand...
I know that is the case but I am asking the chronological explanation for this since something is wrong here. Overvoid shouldn't exist in perpetua's story if overvoid was created after perpetua's creation was restarted. What's going on with this?
 
Weaver261 said:
I know that is the case but I am asking the chronological explanation for this since something is wrong here. Overvoid shouldn't exist in perpetua's story if overvoid was created after perpetua's creation was restarted. What's going on with this?
Click to expand...
That's because she doesn't predate the Light. She didn't randomly create from the Darkness since the Light is the oldest thing in the Darkness. Plus, Flash sorts of confirmed the Light and Source being the same thing and we know the Hands get their lifeforce from the Source. Also, the creation of Perpetua was literally considered the “light” Multiverse. So, I don't think there's any confusion here.
 
Weaver261 said:
Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?
Click to expand...
The Light of Creation was born in the Great Darkness, and it has been confirmed that The Light is The Source. This corresponds to John Byrne's Fourth World when it says that The Source was born in the void. The Light (or Source) grew and when everything was no longer nothing, the Great Darkness howled, causing a flaw in the once immaculate perfection of The Light as the first narrative was born.

As the great energies of creation were born of The Source, The Source brought forth super celestial beings called "Hands" to shape these energies into realms of existence. The Source has shaped many other cosmic entities with their own functions in the Greater Omniverse such as Cosmic Raptor, Chronicler and the Deep Change, and they are all part of a hierarchy that eventually reaches The Source.

The Presence is not part of this hierarchy because he simply transcends any notion of hierarchical systems, and created The Light in his act of creation. The Source (or Light) is also linked to The Presence since when The Spectre entered inside The Source, the nature of God was shown to him. The Source's is basically God's light and the Great Darkness is the absence of God's light.
 
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Elizio33 said:
the Great Darkness howled, causing a flaw in the once immaculate perfection of The Light as the first narrative was born.

As the great energies of creation were born of The Source
Click to expand...
I am fine with the scaling here and I also agree The Presence in Crisis Cosmology deserves Tier 0. But I'm confused with this one. It's said here that when the flaw appeared on perfection light, in that instant multiverse was born
There's no timeframe between two events. It just happened instantly.
 
Weaver261 said:
I am fine with the scaling here and I also agree The Presence in Crisis Cosmology deserves Tier 0. But I'm confused with this one. It's said here that when the flaw appeared on perfection light, in that instant multiverse was born
There's no timeframe between two events. It just happened instantly.
Click to expand...
Think of it this way, the writer wanted to focus more on the Great Darkness by bringing back the origin story told in Crisis on Infinite Earths when all was darkness until the burning light came, but who shaped the Multiverse? There was indeed a time gap between the flaw and the creation of the Multiverse and it was Perpetua who shaped the Multiverse, but this wasn't addressed in this specific story.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Wait I understand the Presence being 0, but where does High 1-A+ come from ?
Click to expand...
It directly acts through the Voice. In the same vein, that God from Seekers has both 0 and High 1-A+. In that, the Magician an “apsect” of God is working through God in the dream. If a 0 being takes shape or avatar within Creation then that said “thing” becomes High 1-A+.
 
The Presence (Crisis Cosmology)

Tier: High 1-A+ | 0

Keys: The Voice | The Creator

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level+ (The Voice is the word through which God commanded the Light of Creation to shine through the Great Darkness when he sang everything into existence, and by which God acts and interacts with the Spectre, Phantom Stranger, and the Angels throughout his Creation) | Boundless (Transcends the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness, standing utterly beyond opposites, silently observing Creation to a point where time is no time and space is no space, being one with the void, exhaling his quintessence of perfection. God has many forms or appearances according to different belief systems, but all agree on a timeless, boundless and unchanging God Beyond Gods without beginning or end on which all gods and deities are his aspects)

Notes:

The Source, The Light of Creation, The Overvoid are aspects of The Presence. Many stories refer to a beginning where the "Earth" was without form and void, then came the Voice speaking the words, "Let there be light!", and there was light over all the "Earth" that was the void of endless darkness. Translating this into modern cosmology, the Voice created the Light of Creation which burned through the Great Darkness, making the Source, the Light of Creation and the Overvoid a product of God in his act of creation. Representing God's light, these interchangeable entities have a direct connection to God; when the Spectre entered within the Source, the nature of God was shown to him.
 
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Here's how the apexes of the Crisis Cosmology aside from The Presence should be ranked:

The Great Darkness is 1-A. Is the font of nothingness that precedes all, its scope more all-encompassing than the Light of Creation that was born in defiance of it and yet dwindled out of its memory. Is the absence of God's light and its shadow partner locked forever in endless struggles.

The Source/Overvoid/Light is 1-A. These interchangeable entities are one and the same whole that gave rise to, encompasses and sustains Creation, seeing each of the infinite Multiverses as a long reverie dreamed since the beginning of time and would continue to do so long after the end, and resides beyond space, time and dimensions known and unknown. Shaped many cosmic entities with their own functions in the Greater Omniverse.

The Greater Omniverse is 1-A. Beyond the Source Wall lies a level of existence beyond space, time and thought. The Source resides at the core of the Greater Omniverse birthing the Connective/Crisis Energies and the Deep Change who reside there too and dreamed time and the Speed Force, which itself contains the conceptual realm of the Gallery of Moments having qualitative superiority over the Divine Continuum.

The Deep Change is 1-A. Resides in the Greater Omniverse as a universal constant that dreamed time, the Speed Force being an emanation of it.

The Hands are 1-A. They resides in the Overvoid and wields The Source's energy like the Speed Force, the Emotional Spectrum and the Forces of Justice, shaping them into Multiverses. Perpetua tore pieces from the Overvoid and shape them into the Over-Monitor, the World Forger and the Anti-Monitor.
 
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