Alternate Kenjaku Takedown

[Arkenis]

So same scenario as Yuta and Takaba, but it won't be Yuta and Takaba now. Instead, it'll be Hakari, and Maki like they initially considered.
Hakari and Kenjaku will fight first and after 4:11 minutes when Hakari's un-killable state ends, if its accepted Hakari couldn't beat him, Maki jumps in to deliver the final blow.

Can They Do It?

Kenjaku:
Maki and Hakari:

Spoiler: Explanation from sorcerers

Yuta: I won't be able to do it. Even though Rika would be useful in controlling the curses, I can't leave the rest to fight Sukuna. Higuruma isn't experienced and Yuji still hasn't mastered RCT.
Kusakabe: I could do it (please don't pick me)
Mei Mei: That's right... you are the strongest First Grade, aren't you...?
Kurusu: No, the teacher can't do it, he has nothing to deliver a final blow. plus wasn't Miwa defeated by Kenjaku? (sword users suck, Gege comment)
Yuta: Maki won't be sensed right? I nominate her. Her katana can also cut the soul. She's also got senses and speed on Naoya's level, maybe higher now.
Mei Mei: From what I know about Cursed Spirit Manipulation.... the user can see through curses, Kenjaku likely set up curses near but Maki can still work. Her performance after Shibuya was amazing.
Kurusu: Yeah, Maki makes sense. But who's gonna distract long enough Kenjaku?
Hakari: He's a past sorcerer like Kashimo right? A life of gambling always comes with a risk... I'll do it.
Yuta: You've never lost before (smiles)
Mei Mei: Gojo really trained the best sorcerers, I wonder how much money he-
Kurusu: It's decided. Maki and Hakari will go.

 

[Quantu]

Don't see why Hakari doesn't get overwhelmed by CSM/Gravity and potentially Kenny's open domain.

I don't even think Yuta could have handled that Takaba role.

So Maki will have to jump in early and help Hakari and I think Kenjaku could beat Maki and Hakari 2v1.

 

[Arkenis]

Don't see why Hakari doesn't get overwhelmed by CSM/Gravity and potentially Kenny's open domain.

Should be stronger than any cs he has and easily one shot them or the very least two tap them. They haven't shown strength on Yuta's level unlike Hakari being stronger than Yuta. The gravity could be an issue but considering Kenjaku thinking Hakari as main fighting force, I don't think it'll one shot. We see it doesn't even one shot Yuki in his domain, Yuki's arm was broken and that was in it, outside it won't do much and Hakari's rct would easily heal from wounds caused by it. Hakari's domain is also said to be better in tug of wars, plus he could just beat Kenjaku down to the point he can't maintain it like we saw with Sukuna.

 

[Quantu]

Hakari is not stronger than Yuta but I'm not getting into this debate again.

Why would this dry land base Kashimo victim be comparable to Kenjaku. We don't know if the fast activation/non-lethal/tug of war advantage effect applies to open domains too but giving the benefit of the doubt, I don't see why Kenny doesn't just mini Uzumaki his head eventually. We also know he has at least 1 special grade curse. What's Hakari going to do, punch someone to death who outstats him and can attack from range and keep him at bay with Gravity?

Also, where is the opening for Maki to attack coming from? It took an undamagable reality warper to pull it off in the main series. Hakari is and CAN only do one thing, hit a jackpot and hang on for dear life. Stall man in action.

And I'm not just picking on Hakari. I would even say the same shit about Yuta, or Maki. Nothing the heavy hitters have done post timeskip invalidates this in my opinion.

 

[Arkenis]

Hakari is not stronger than Yuta but I'm not getting into this debate again.

It's on page... and its pretty obvious?

Why would this dry land base Kashimo victim be comparable to Kenjaku. We don't know if the fast activation/non-lethal/tug of war advantage effect applies to open domains too but giving the benefit of the doubt, I don't see why Kenny doesn't just mini Uzumaki his head eventually. We also know he has at least 1 special grade curse. What's Hakari going to do, punch someone to death who outstats him and can attack from range and keep him at bay with Gravity?

Why would Kenjaku be far above either? He doesn't show physical feats greater than a weakened Yuki or Choso. Mini Uzumakis couldn't one shot an on guard weakened Yuki's head, how would this happen to Hakari? And that one special grade you're talking about, has no showings of power nor its ct at all since Takaba killed it before it could do anything. The other curses are unknown. Kenjaku can attack from range, cool Hakari can cover several meters just by running, throw objects at Kenjaku like trees to compensate for distance, something in character for a fighter like him.

The gravity may be the biggest issue but like I said before: In domain, Kenjaku uses his gravity to a greater extent and still couldn't destroy Yuki, only harming her arms and head, and couldn't crush Choso or Garuda outside it. So its not going to destroy Hakari here. Also the ability lasts for 6 seconds and after that, enters a rest. Another thing, even Yuki figures dodging it is doable.

All this being unable to kill him, any wound he gets he'll just heal, never tiring. Kenjaku just isn't killing him and I doubt he'll do Domain given he knows other's may come, I'd say he's more likely to endure Hakari than risk doing domain, losing his ct use and getting surprised by someone, a someone he has no idea to the new abilities they'll bring. Same with Max Uzumakis which would waste his curses than help since Hakari could just dodge.

I do wanna clarify this, this fight is specifically the same scenario we saw, the same conditions, its not Kenjaku with a full arsenal of cursed spirits.

 

[Quantu]

Why would Kenjaku be far above either? He doesn't show physical feats greater than a weakened Yuki or Choso.

He doesn't need to be far above, they cannot beat him through conventional means and Hakari is a bad matchup due to his lack of a Rika, SSK/HR and overall offensive abilities outside of rough punches.

Mini Uzumakis couldn't one shot an on guard weakened Yuki's head, how would this happen to Hakari? And that one special grade you're talking about, has no showings of power nor its ct at all since Takaba killed it before it could do anything.

Eventually, not immediately. This could be via a distraction through a curse spirit allowing him to get closer, or whatever his BIQ comes up with. His blind 3v1 against a prepared Tengen, Yuki and Choso is one of the biggest compliments to his knowledge and experience in the series.

Also, it was less "point blank" anyway.

The point is Hakari isn't reality manipulating these Special Grade Curses away like Takaba and it's hardly revolutionary to assume that Kenjaku has unique curses he can throw at him. Even a few fodder curses still adds up especially against someone who is already stronger than you offensively.

The other curses are unknown. Kenjaku can attack from range, cool Hakari can cover several meters just by running, throw objects at Kenjaku like trees to compensate for distance, something in character for a fighter like him.

Unknown but very much real. Hakari will be swarmed by Cursed Spirits while trying to close in on a Kenjaku already stated to be unbeatable through conventional means to characters on his tier. I don't see what throwing trees is going to do to be honest. Kenjaku can also run lol.

The gravity may be the biggest issue but like I said before: In domain, Kenjaku uses his gravity to a greater extent and still couldn't destroy Yuki, only harming her arms and head, and couldn't crush Choso or Garuda outside it. So its not going to destroy Hakari here. Also the ability lasts for 6 seconds and after that, enters a rest. Another thing, even Yuki figures dodging it is doable.

I never said it would kill him, I'm saying for a melee fighter on a time limit fighting against potentially dozens of curses and someone stronger than him, a short burst method of incapacitation can be pivotal. The dodging is referring to escaping the effective range, which I don't doubt Hakari could do but then that accomplishes the task of repelling him away anyway.

Again, Hakari is a physical fighter and needs to get close to land hits. Spawning train doors or throwing trees ain't cutting it.

All this being unable to kill him, any wound he gets he'll just heal, never tiring. Kenjaku just isn't killing him and I doubt he'll do Domain given he knows other's may come, I'd say he's more likely to endure Hakari than risk doing domain, losing his ct use and getting surprised by someone, a someone he has no idea to the new abilities they'll bring. Same with Max Uzumakis which would waste his curses than help since Hakari could just dodge.

I do wanna clarify this, this fight is specifically the same scenario we saw, the same conditions, its not Kenjaku with a full arsenal of cursed spirits.

Well then, Kenjaku has cursed spirit sensors all over. He also shares vision with these curses and is specifically weary of the potential threat of awakened Maki Zenin and UI Ui. There is no reality altering by Takaba to null his senses and while he is chucking curses an at Hakari, he will definitely be able to be on guard against a potential Maki ambush in my opinion.

 

[Arkenis]

He doesn't need to be far above, they cannot beat him through conventional means and Hakari is a bad matchup due to his lack of a Rika, SSK/HR and overall offensive abilities outside of rough punches.

You're taking that conventional statement way too literal. Kenjaku doesn't have some unknown hax that allows him to resist getting beat up lmao. Have I once even said Hakari would win?

Eventually, not immediately. This could be via a distraction through a curse spirit allowing him to get closer, or whatever his BIQ comes up with. His blind 3v1 against a prepared Tengen, Yuki and Choso is one of the biggest compliments to his knowledge and experience in the series.

Also, it was less "point blank" anyway.

The point is Hakari isn't reality manipulating these Special Grade Curses away like Takaba and it's hardly revolutionary to assume that Kenjaku has unique curses he can throw at him. Even a few fodder curses still adds up especially against someone who is already stronger than you offensively.

Okay eventually... like until Maki comes? That's my point here. Kenjaku has nothing that's gonna kill Hakari quick enough. And these unique curses.... where were they for the Takaba fight? Why didn't he pull it out when Yuta pulled up? He went straight for gravity instead. You're just head cannoning your way into this when the fight shows Kenjaku had zero curses worth throwing at Yuta. And yeah Hakari isn't reality manipulating them... he's gonna destroy any curses that Kenjaku tries. We saw the curses Kenjaku released, all random fodder curses that had nothing special. Read Hakari's page since you keep disagreeing with scaling lmao.

Unknown but very much real. Hakari will be swarmed by Cursed Spirits while trying to close in on a Kenjaku already stated to be unbeatable through conventional means to characters on his tier. I don't see what throwing trees is going to do to be honest. Kenjaku can also run lol.

You can't even make up a way these curses would be an issue for Hakari, they can't swarm someone who can one shot every curse coming his way. He throws a tree to hit a curse, throws it to keep Kenjaku busy. Sure Kenjaku can run, that isn't the point, its about covering distance to close the gap, if he's running towards him he's gonna run away throwing curses at Hakari and Hakari's just gonna keep smacking them down.

I never said it would kill him, I'm saying for a melee fighter on a time limit fighting against potentially dozens of curses and someone stronger than him, a short burst method of incapacitation can be pivotal. The dodging is referring to escaping the effective range, which I don't doubt Hakari could do but then that accomplishes the task of repelling him away anyway.

Again, Hakari is a physical fighter and needs to get close to land hits. Spawning train doors or throwing trees ain't cutting it

Good so you agree it won't kill him. Bruh if you think Hakari is really weaker, please do a crt cuz you just ignoring Hakari's profile now. And if he can dodge the gravity, he gets repelled cool? This isn't about Hakari killing the guy lmao, its about if Hakari AND Maki can do it.

Well then, Kenjaku has cursed spirit sensors all over. He also shares vision with these curses and is specifically weary of the potential threat of awakened Maki Zenin and UI Ui. There is no reality altering by Takaba to null his senses and while he is chucking curses an at Hakari, he will definitely be able to be on guard against a potential Maki ambush in my opinion.

True that he shares vision, but the thing about Maki, her speed and the fact she has zero ce, people have to rely on sensing her cursed tools like Gojo does with Toji instead of just seeing them. So seeing Maki approaching is gonna be harder for Kenjaku to do here, the curses wouldn't even see who's coming. He'll be on guard for Maki, while facing a Jackpot Hakari? You just yapping at this point.

Side point: I don't know why they didn't consider Kenjaku had less curses at this point, instead they still thought he'd release the same like in Shibuya and decided Maki couldn't handle it. If they went with "Well Kenjaku already released millions in Shibuya, he lost numerous, he also lost some in his fight with Yuki, maybe he doesn't have a lot left" they would've sent Maki instead. And plus Maki was clearing out her clan and curses with ease before this anyway.

 

[Quantu]

Tbf it's a fun and games thread and I read the series, I don't need to make a CRT for information that may or may not be accurate/outdated on profiles. Otherwise we end up with MHS JP Hakari blitzing both Maki and Kenjaku by hundreds of times which anyone with a basic grasp of JJK knows is dubious.

Yuta sneaked and blitzed he him so he used gravity quickly to try to stop him. No one knows how it would have played out in a proper 1v1. It's like saying why didn't he open his domain. He was making a split second act to defend against an onrushing Yuta.

I'm willing to drop the curse spirit shenanigans since I understand some headcanon is required since we don't see any of them and are just left to wonder, and the special grade we do see gets one tapped, but I still think it could make a difference realistically and with how Yuta hyped up CSM before fighting Sukuna and downplaying Maki lol.

"This isn't about Hakari killing the guy lmao, its about if Hakari AND Maki can do it." You are putting Hakari in a scenario similar to the manga. So Hakari's job is to create an opening for Maki to attack. I'm saying he won't be able to.

Yes, he will be on guard for other sorcerers while fighting Jackpot Hakari. That's the whole point of his setup. He was already like that in the scenario. He specifically mentioned Maki as someone to be aware of. The only reason he was off guard was because of Takaba, the uniqueness of his abilities and the fact that Kenjaku literally says all his know-how could be meaningless if he's not careful. He does not need to afford the same mental capacity to against a punch merchant.

To avoid a repetitive back and forth, as well as turning this into just Hakari vs Kenjaku, let me say what I think happens. Hakari will attack Kenjaku, hit a jackpot etc etc. and attempt to close the distance and attack. Kenjaku will throw curses at him, repel him with gravity, shoot mini Uzumaki's and engage in H2H combat when necessary, all while keeping guard of the threat of being jumped and vision sharing. Maybe Kenjaku kills him, maybe not. Say he doesn't. He is still just stalling and Maki won't really have an opening to jump him. We know they can't beat him through conventional means so if it becomes just Maki and Hakari vs Kenjaku in an old fashioned 2v1 they will lose.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This fight ends the moment Hakari tries to expand his Domain, because he has neither the ce, nor refinement to stand up to Kenjaku. Nor does he have any way to deal with his endless swarm of spirits, which Yuta considers on the level of shibuya, which is was ten million spirits.

There is a very good reason Maki & Hakari were not sent, and Yuta was (which also goes to show the strength hierarchy but I won’t argue that), Kenjaku handily takes this.

 

[Arkenis]

This fight ends the moment Hakari tries to expand his Domain, because he has neither the ce, nor refinement to stand up to Kenjaku. Nor does he have any way to deal with his endless swarm of spirits, which Yuta considers on the level of shibuya, which is was ten million spirits.

This isn't a full arsenal Kenjaku. Yuta thought Kenjaku would release the same amount of curses like back in Shibuya, but that isn't what happened. They overestimated his reserve of curses. What do you mean he has neither the ce or refinement? He has infinite curse energy in Jackpot.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yuta thought Kenjaku would release the same amount of curses like back in Shibuya, but that isn't what happened.

Misremembered, but regardless, Hakari has not shown the capabilities to deal with this many curses at once.

Also, he cannot use Domain in JP, so he’s even more of a sitting duck.

 

[Nierre]

fun f&g thread

following

 

[Arkenis]

Tbf it's a fun and games thread and I read the series, I don't need to make a CRT for information that may or may not be accurate/outdated on profiles. Otherwise we end up with MHS JP Hakari blitzing both Maki and Kenjaku by hundreds of times which anyone with a basic grasp of JJK knows is dubious.

The thing is the ap for Hakari has never been in question unlike his speed. So if you disagree you'd make a crt. And also the speed will get a crt in the future. It's not the same.

Yuta sneaked and blitzed he him so he used gravity quickly to try to stop him. No one knows how it would have played out in a proper 1v1. It's like saying why didn't he open his domain. He was making a split second act to defend against an onrushing Yuta.

...These characters make split decisions all the time, this isn't any different. He went for gravity over releasing these hypothetical curses you think he has that's worth anything. That's the point here.

To avoid a repetitive back and forth, as well as turning this into just Hakari vs Kenjaku, let me say what I think happens. Hakari will attack Kenjaku, hit a jackpot etc etc. and attempt to close the distance and attack. Kenjaku will throw curses at him, repel him with gravity, shoot mini Uzumaki's and engage in H2H combat when necessary, all while keeping guard of the threat of being jumped and vision sharing. Maybe Kenjaku kills him, maybe not. Say he doesn't. He is still just stalling and Maki won't really have an opening to jump him. We know they can't beat him through conventional means so if it becomes just Maki and Hakari vs Kenjaku in an old fashioned 2v1 they will lose.

Hakari pressing him.... never tiring, regeneration faster than Gojo or Sukuna's, and getting faster as it goes on. Maki coming in undetected and attacking with Soul Katana isn't believable?

True that he shares vision, but the thing about Maki, her speed and the fact she has zero ce, people have to rely on sensing her cursed tools like Gojo does with Toji instead of just seeing them.

Hakari has not shown the capabilities to deal with this many curses at once.

Punch, kick, repeat. He's strong enough to where any of those curses would die from a single hit.

Also, he cannot use Domain in JP, so he’s even more of a sitting duck.

He doesn't need to. He's got JP already? And at the end of the timer he can still domain and in this moment Maki comes in, now its a fully replenished Hakari and Maki pressing Kenjaku.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Punch, kick, repeat. He's strong enough to where any of those curses would die from a single hit.

If he was, they would’ve sent him out to deal with the outrage. He wasn’t. He isn’t. It’s as simple as that.

He doesn't need to. He's got JP already? And at the end of the timer he can still domain and in this moment Maki comes in, now it’s a fully replenished Hakari and Maki pressing Kenjaku.

Okay, Kenjaku just overwhelms him with spirits and runs away.

 

[Arkenis]

If he was, they would’ve sent him out to deal with the outrage. He wasn’t. He isn’t. It’s as simple as that.

You just acknowledged why Yuta was picked and I showed you how the thought process was based off something that wasn't true. Hakari can't deal with 10 million curses, that's why Yuta was picked but Kenjaku didn't release that many, the choice was wrong in the end.

Okay, Kenjaku just overwhelms him with spirits and runs away.

The man has never ran away, you really think he's gonna do it now?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You just acknowledged why Yuta was picked and I showed you how the thought process was based off something that wasn't true. Hakari can't deal with 10 million curses, that's why Yuta was picked but Kenjaku didn't release that many, the choice was wrong in the end.

That’s fine, but he still hasn’t shown the ability to still deal with the amount of curses presented. Hakari isn’t like Yuki, where he can just negate CSM, those are still hundreds to thousands of curses all at once.

The man has never ran away, you really think he's gonna do it now?

He was planning to, that’s why he was tracking Yuta and Maki.

 

[Arkenis]

That’s fine, but he still hasn’t shown the ability to still deal with the amount of curses presented. Hakari isn’t like Yuki, where he can just negate CSM, those are still hundreds to thousands of curses all at once.

Yuki doesn't do that? And Kenjaku never released hundreds of curses in a fight, that only happened from the rampage. Why would he even do that when he can just engage in cqc like he usually does with the curses.

 

[Quantu]

The thing is the ap for Hakari has never been in question unlike his speed. So if you disagree you'd make a crt. And also the speed will get a crt in the future. It's not the same.

Even Hakari having enough AP still doesn't make a difference, since, again, he is a punch merchant and won't be able to get close to a far more skilled and intelligent sorcerer with thousands of years more experience, hax (and the stat advantage, but sure lets go off the profiles). I feel like we are going in circles with regards to this.

...These characters make split decisions all the time, this isn't any different. He went for gravity over releasing these hypothetical curses you think he has that's worth anything. That's the point here.

Split second decision in the midst of combat =/= getting rushed after being disoriented by something you have never seen before from a dude that has taken you completely off guard (he didn't expect much from the new sorceres bar Higuruma), self admitting you are screwed if you don't treat the situation with utmost caution and being battle worn.

Hakari pressing him.... never tiring, regeneration faster than Gojo or Sukuna's, and getting faster as it goes on. Maki coming in undetected and attacking with Soul Katana isn't believable?

Sure, she can attack, my point is they can't win. And that Hakari won't force an opening for a sneak attack. In fact, SSK is probably not going to be Maki's plan here since it would make her even easier to detect, so she would probably use a non-curse tool, which means that she can at best get 1 strike in (for some reason, HR users refuse to go for the head to so best case scenario she stabs him through the back again, he backs away and defeats them 2v1).

 

[PsychoWarper]

Do we have any idea how Hakari’s quick domain interacts with an Open Domain? Like sure it opens first but what happens when Kenjaku opens his own and can just attack Hakari’s domain from the outside? Also would it be unreasonable to assume Kenjaku likely knows how to deal with Domains like Hakari’s given they used to be common in the Heian era?

Overall a big thing Takaba did was iirc drain Kenjaku of energy and distract him, I dont know if I believe Hakari would be able to force Kenjaku into wasting as much energy as Takaba was able to due to his limited offensive capabilities which means I dont think Maki would be able to sneak Kenny as well as Yuta was able to.

 

[Arkenis]

Even Hakari having enough AP still doesn't make a difference, since, again, he is a punch merchant and won't be able to get close to a far more skilled and intelligent sorcerer with thousands of years more experience, hax (and the stat advantage, but sure lets go off the profiles). I feel like we are going in circles with regards to this.

Bro everyone has been able to get close up to Kenjaku. He isn't even a long range type of fighter. He fights up close with the curses several times in the story and gets into h2h as well.

Split second decision in the midst of combat =/= getting rushed after being disoriented by something you have never seen before from a dude that has taken you completely off guard (he didn't expect much from the new sorceres bar Higuruma), self admitting you are screwed if you don't treat the situation with utmost caution and being battle worn.

He wasn't disoriented at the end of the fight with Takaba? And how are you simultaneously hyping up Kenjaku's skill but then saying he couldn't think of a better ability than his gravity? Just face the guy had nothing left to throw at them here.

Sure, she can attack, my point is they can't win. And that Hakari won't force an opening for a sneak attack. In fact, SSK is probably not going to be Maki's plan here since it would make her even easier to detect, so she would probably use a non-curse tool, which means that she can at best get 1 strike in (for some reason, HR users refuse to go for the head to so best case scenario she stabs him through the back again, he backs away and defeats them 2v1).

No? I already showed you trying to sense the curse energy barely works. This exact thing would happen with Kenjaku, he wouldn't know what's coming or how to prepare. And I think just a stab in the chest is good enough to debilitate Kenjaku like we see with Sukuna. Also HR don't go for head? Maki does go for head.

Do we have any idea how Hakari’s quick domain interacts with an Open Domain? Like sure it opens first but what happens when Kenjaku opens his own and can just attack Hakari’s domain from the outside? Also would it be unreasonable to assume Kenjaku likely knows how to deal with Domains like Hakari’s given they used to be common in the Heian era?

Hakari's already in Jackpot. So there's no reason for him to do domain. Plus I brought this up already:

Kenjaku just isn't killing him and I doubt he'll do Domain given he knows other's may come, I'd say he's more likely to endure Hakari than risk doing domain, losing his ct use and getting surprised by someone, a someone he has no idea to the new abilities they'll bring.

Overall a big thing Takaba did was iirc drain Kenjaku of energy and distract him, I dont know if I believe Hakari would be able to force Kenjaku into wasting as much energy as Takaba was able to due to his limited offensive capabilities which means I dont think Maki would be able to sneak Kenny as well as Yuta was able to.

Kenjaku got drained due to all the damage he took. Hakari's attacks would cause constant rct use and drain Kenjaku of ce too, something people like Yuta got drained of in several uses of rct. Kenjaku would definitely be drained in energy.

 

[Arkenis]

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