Alovenas 1-A+ Downgrade

[Agnaa]

Alovenas has 1-A+ for the reasoning "(Her transcendence is always increasing infinitely)".

This is nowhere near acceptable for 1-A+, and two 1-A experts (Sera and Ultima) disagreed. It was accepted by Andy, Elizhaa (EDIT: I've been informed that Elizhaa was neutral, and was taken out of context), and Ant but, no offense, I'm not sure that they're experts on those tiers.

A transcendence always increasing doesn't mean that at one point it will have reached the infinity-th step. That isn't how infinity works. If a character is always destroying more universes, that doesn't mean that they'll eventually have destroyed infinite universes.

SCP-3812 for years was stuck at 1-B instead of High 1-B because of this. He was always transcending himself, but until recently, hadn't had a statement of eventually being at the top of an infinite hierarchy. Alovenas doesn't have this statement, and thus, should be downgraded.

 

[Elizhaa]

Wait, I said I was neutral and that Tier 1-A+ did make more sense. I never said I outright agree; oh, I see...I got taken out of context.

 

[GLHF22]

Have you read the explanation page and check all the scan?

 

[Agnaa]

Oh? Did I miss something? Could you point out anything I missed?

 

[Agnaa]

Ultima disagreed with both.

I don't see how any of those scans imply being infinitely many steps into a 1-A hierarchy.

 

[GLHF22]

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"Infinite Speed? i see, its indeed Amazing, Then lets me asnwer it, "Even Infinite speed is just 1 before me, and I'm 100 times faster than that", let's say you have infinite power, "that inifinity is just 1 of the higher infinity", let's say that you transcends that then there is even more, if you continues to be infinitely stronger than that, then let's become indefinitely stronger at thousands times faster.


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"This is God's Territority so anything is possible.

in an instant, Ruphas stats become "∞" and "∞" characters continues to be displayed at any level, Infinite^infinite, with this anything can be cleared up easily, even by merely existing, Ultimate Universe disappear like dust."

And yeah ultima disagree with High 1-A not 1-A+

 

[GLHF22]

I would say that when the infinite has reached infinite, it Will reach another higher infinities and so on infinitely

 

[Agnaa]

That's still not 1-A+. That's just always increasing 1-A.

It's the same sort of reason that the Gods (Magi) are 1-B instead of High 1-B.

 

[GLHF22]

I don't get it, mind to elaborate?

 

[GLHF22]

She has transcends the infinite amount of infinite, in fact her transcendence always increasing like this :

Infinite^infinite, then that infinite just 1 of the higher infinite, and this higher infinite is just 1 of the more higher infinities and so on infinitely.

I don't know why this doesnt qualify.

 

[Everything12]

Even if you increase something by +1 for a infinite number of time that thing will never reach infinite, the same with stack infinities ontop of infinities for even a infinite amount of time will not reach infinite x infinite.

 

[Agnaa]

In Magi, there is a god for each dimension, and there are infinite dimensions. Each of these gods sees the lower god as fiction.

However, since there's no god that presides over the entire hierarchy, and there is no infinity-th god, they only ever become 1-B and not High 1-B.

Similarly, even if Alovenas can constantly become infinitely more powerful, since it never reaches the infinity-th layer of that, it's not 1-A+.

 

[Agnaa]

Infinite^infinite is nothing in 1-A.

1-A starts at Aleph-two. Infinite^infinite doesn't even get you to Aleph-three. 1-A+ is at Aleph-infinity.

 

[Nepuko]

@GLHF infinite^infinite^infinite..infinitely won't even get you in the next layer/transcendence as far as I know.

Alovenas seems then to be just a rather strong baseline Outerversal character ^_^

 

[GLHF22]

Oh, i think that just Will be uncountably infinite, because you know the difference of each infinities is 1 transcendence, say you have two infinite and your opponent have 1 then the two infinite transcends the one infinite, and Alovenas infinite is Infinite then that infinite is just one of the higher infinite and so on infinitely.

But yeah i think you should read the explanation page first.

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At the first glance, the battle looks equal , no it is really equal, as long as they both repeat "I'm Stronger" there is no superitority nor inferiority, Now both has reached the "Strongest" state, thus the battle can only be equal. A simple eqution that even children can understand, Infinity vs Infinity so there is no answer which one is superior

 

[Agnaa]

Frankly, the first part of your post reads like a parody with how many times it meaninglessly tosses around the word "infinity".

But that and the rest of the post still doesn't establish 1-A+. If I'm being extremely generous it'd be arbitrary/countless 1-A, which would still be below 1-A+.

I think the important distilled part is: Increasing something infinitely doesn't mean you'll reach the infinity'th increase.

 

[GLHF22]

I mean yeah the author really use to many infinite (Mugen) word, anyway im suggest you to read explanation page first and after that tell me your Doubt, i have to take a bath and go to school.

 

[Agnaa]

I already told you why I doubt it, and you haven't presented any evidence to assuage it.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I agree with Agnaa

 

[GLHF22]

I mean she already reach the infinity-th layers, she just doesnt care and keep transcending.

 

[GLHF22]

I mean ultima didnt disagree, it just small misunderstanding he think i use the exact same scan for Alovenas 1-A justification, i mean yeah i give him all the scan thats why he is wondering why he Saw the exact same scan

Alovenas has reached the infinity-th layers and after that she Will reach the higher infinity-th layers and so on infinitely.

 

[Agnaa]

I mean she already reach the infinity-th layers, she just doesnt care and keep transcending.

No she hasn't. Nothing about this has demonstrated reaching the infinity-th later and continuing on.

Alovenas has reached the infinity-th layers and after that she Will reach the higher infinity-th layers and so on infinitely.

I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by "infinity-th layer".

A person's strength is infinite. She sees that as one in a higher infinity. This is one layer. That person's strength goes to that higher infinity, she goes to an even higher infinity where she sees their infinity as one. This is the second layer.

We'd need concrete evidence that she can be at an infinity-th layer.

And all of this is STILL being extremely generous and saying that infinitely stronger is a higher layer in the first place, when we normally need actual layered constructs for this, and we usually say that mere infinitely stronger statements reside in the same layer.

 

[Nepuko]

@GLHF It said infinitely stronger, which dosen't translate into reaching infinite layers.

I also agree with Agnaa.

 

[GLHF22]

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"Each attack power is infinite, Surpass your opponent's infinity with your infinity and transcends that. Big Bang, Big crunch, such weak attacks is completely meaningless, this skill doesnt need a name, but this power that has been refined as much as possible clash with each other.

"I'm Stronger, i'm stronger than that, and more stronger."

Ruphas keeps getting faster as the Speed itself continues to multipliy at the speed of light, and keep increasing indefinitely. However, Alovenas move at the speed that left it far behind but the next moment Ruphas did the same thing. If Ruphas has Incomprehensible power, Alovenas beats it with Multiplied Incomprehensible power, and Ruphas beats it agai. If your infinity is one less than mine, then your opponents will stand in the world above. Use your opponent as stepping stone and create your strongest settings. Don't even think about how high you have reached in this fight"


1 infinity is baseline, 2 infinity is 1 transcendence, Higher infinity is infinite transcendence.

 

[Agnaa]

1 infinity is baseline, 2 infinity is 1 transcendence, Higher infinity is infinite transcendence.

No, that's not how 1-A works.

 

[GLHF22]

Thats how its work on the verse, since stats like STR, AGI, END existed and deciding your power.

 

[Agnaa]

Where does it say that three transcendences is actually infinite transcendences?

 

[GLHF22]

Three what? Stats? STR, AGI, END?

I mean yeah when they increase their stats all of their stats also increased, and its not only 3 but things like INT, SP, MP, HP also existed.

And scan above literaly said 1 infinite difference means 1 transcendence (world above/layers)

 

[Agnaa]

I think you're still misunderstanding what I'm saying.

That is one transcendence if we're generous.

But we need AN INFINITE NUMBER of those. And none of your scans have substantiated her achieving an infinite number of those transcendences.

 

[GLHF22]

1 transcendence means you preceives the lower insignificant, irrelevant or something like that, in this verse 1 world above can be means two things,

1. preceives the lower world like a molecule

2. destroy it like breaking a paper.

And yeah Its not necessarily has to be word infinite to get 1 transcendence as long as you preceives the lower as insignificant/irrelevant (something like preceives them as fiction) is enough to get 1 transcendence.

So 1 infinite difference is 1 transcendence and higher infinities is infinite transcendence.

 

[Agnaa]

Higher infinities isn't infinte transcendence.

1 infinite difference is 1 transcendence.

2 infinite differences is 2 transcendence.

3 infinite differences is 3 transcendence.

 

[GLHF22]

Because higher infinities contain an infinite number of infinities and each infinities transcends other.

I mean looks the scan above, you have 2 infinite then you have 1 transcendence you have infinite of infinity then you have infinite transcendence.

 

[Agnaa]

Where is the infinite of infinity coming from, exactly?

 

[GLHF22]

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"Infinite Speed? i see, its indeed Amazing, Then lets me asnwer it, "Even Infinite speed is just 1 before me, and I'm 100 times faster than that", let's say you have infinite power, "that inifinity is just 1 of the higher infinity", let's say that you transcends that then there is even more, if you continues to be infinitely stronger than that, then let's become indefinitely stronger at thousands times faster.


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"This is God's Territority so anything is possible.

in an instant, Ruphas stats become "∞" and "∞" characters continues to be displayed at any level, Infinite^infinite, with this anything can be cleared up easily, even by merely existing, Ultimate Universe disappear like dust."

And yeah ultima disagree with High 1-A not 1-A+

Mugen no Mugenjo = infinite of infinity but 2 Japanese in this Wiki said, infinite^infinite is more accurate.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh, it's probably legit then.

I'll talk to Ultima about it rq but should get back to this soon.

 

[GLHF22]

Okay, no problem, i actually enjoy discussed something with a reasonable person like you.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Butting in but didn't Shiro said he didn't saw anything 1-A when translating that stuff?

 

[GLHF22]

Butting in but didn't Shiro said he didn't saw anything 1-A when translating that stuff?

He already said he agree with the 1-A ratings, seems like he missed it.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

In the Alovenas 1-a thread he disagreed with it and so he did when you asked for the quick TL tho.

It would be best to call him

 

[GLHF22]

No need to bother him, and 1-A ratings accepted in somewhere and not in that thread, and yeah Gin san already participate in it.