All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Nullflowerblush]

Spoiler: Garlic Jr.

ダメージも受けない。
He has become impervious to damage.

Apparently, Garlic Jr. is invulnerable. The literal meaning is, like, "does not receive damage", so I don't know if they mean "Garlic Jr. is physically invincible"—which is provably false, considering Gohan literally flies right through his body—or if they mean "Garlic Jr.'s immortality renders all damage void".

Spoiler: Kishime

電撃の ムチを操り、 瞬間的に移動 する技を持つ。
He wields an electric whip and possesses the ability of moving instantaneously.

Apparently, Kishime had ******* Instantaneous Movement, even before Goku did.

Spoiler: Super Android 13

体も融まいぞうだい 1.5倍ぐらいに増大。
Upon transforming, his body also becomes about 1.5 times larger.

Super Android 13's design notes specify he is 1.5 times larger than before.

Spoiler: Broly

超サイヤ人第一段階
Super Saiyan First Grade

超サイヤ人 第二段階
Super Saiyan Second Grade

Curiously, Broly's blue-haired Super Saiyan form and his green-haired Super Saiyan form are referred to as "First Grade" and "Second Grade", respectively, using the exact same language as the original First Grade and Second Grade Super Saiyan forms.

Spoiler: Janemba

悪の気が集まってできた怪物。
A monster created from concentrated evil [Ki] energy.

Wait, why does he have Abstract Existence again?

空間 を越えるパンチや、分身、体を分解し ての瞬間移動など多彩な攻撃をする。
It employs a variety of attacks, including punches transcending space, cloning, and Instantaneous Movement by disassembling its body.

Bunkai Teleport is a form of Instantaneous Movement. I was unaware.

Spoiler: Hirudegarn

ヒルデガーンは 魔人の霊体に、魔 導師達が悪の気を 注いで変身させた。
Hirudegarn was created when sorcerers infused the spirit form of a Majin with evil [Ki] energy, causing it to transform.

I haven't watched Movie 13 with the original subtitles before, so I don't know the full context of this.

火炎を吐く。また、全身 をエクトプラズムに変えて、 攻撃をかわしてしまう。
It breathes fire. It can also transform its entire body into ectoplasm, allowing it to completely bypass incoming attacks.

Weird how Hirudegarn's ectoplasm is intangible, but Gotenks's ectoplasm-like Super Ghosts are tangible.

Also, also, Daizenshuu 5 says Elder Kai gave Goku his inoichi (命), which could either be referring to the state of being alive itself (i.e., originally, Goku equals Dead & Elder Kai equals Living, which then becomes Goku equals Living & Elder Kai equals Dead) or his lifespan.

 

[Padaruyos]

Reading through Daizenshuu 6, and apparently, Mecha Warriors are made up of types with "fully mechanical bodies" and "others whose organic bodies have been revived through the use of machinery", even using the term fukkatsu—implying resurrection from death—which I think explains why 17 and 18 lack Ki despite having the biological functions of a normal, organic human; even though their (presumably previously deceased) bodies are reanimated due to being remodeled at the cellular level and equipped with mechanical components, and they have their souls, they lack life energy entirely because they are fundamentally zombies and are not technically considered "alive". I want to say it also supports them not being able to feel pain like the fully mechanical Androids because official supplementary material explicitly claims that 17 and 18 do not feel pain, but the DBS anime has 18 twist her ankle and audibly cry "Ow!" and continue to feel pain from it going forward, so **** me I guess.

Or maybe "organic bodies [being] revived through the use of machinery" just refers to Dr. Wheelo's brain piloting a mecha body or Cooler's head merging with the Big Gete Star, which is not how revival usually works and is only part of the organic body, but whatever.

17 and 18 being essentially Reanimens is a hilarious concept.

Though how is 18 capable of giving birth then? I guess Gero also "repaired" reproductive organs?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Is the multiplier for Ssj3 accepted here as 400×?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Is the multiplier for Ssj3 accepted here as 400×?

The Dragon Ball verse page should have links to multiplier blogs methinks.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Is the multiplier for Ssj3 accepted here as 400×?

Yes, it's in the notes of the Explanations section of the DB page

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The Dragon Ball verse page should have links to multiplier blogs methinks.

Yes, it's in the notes of the Explanations section of the DB page

Thank you both very much.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Thank you both very much.

You're welcome!

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Though how is 18 capable of giving birth then? I guess Gero also "repaired" reproductive organs?

Most likely, I think. Based off of all the information and language used about 17 and 18, what I've inferred is that their bodies are technically human because human bodies were used as a template, but their entire biological mass was restructured using a synthetic "bio-organic" replacement, restoring their original functions while granting superhuman abilities and inordinate amounts of Bio-Energy.

 

[Mickey1940]

sorry in advance, I'm a bit new to this

What's the multiplier for Super Saiyan God on this website considered to be?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What's the multiplier for Super Saiyan God on this website considered to be?

160,000x

 

[Mickey1940]

160,000x

why is that the case?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

why is that the case?

400x400

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

why is that the case?

Cause it was considered stronger than SSJ3 Vegito in BoGs, and base Vegito is >SSJ3 Goku.
So 400x400=160,000

 

[CryoTheMayo]

why is that the case?

• Fusion is considered a dynamic multiplier with the logic of "Base Fusions surpass the strongest form of the fusees".
• Vegito should be able to use Super Saiyan 3 due to Goku, especially since Gotenks can do it.
• Goku refers to God as a new level of power he never knew existed and also states Fusion wouldn't work against Beerus.

God Goku (BoG) > SS3 Vegito (BoG) > (400x) > Base Vegito (BoG) > SS3 Goku (BoG) > (400x) > Base Goku (BoG)

God takes Goku from being 4-B to 2-C. So the 160,000x multiplier is a reasonable lowball derived from inference using character statements, narrative and basic scaling.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

God takes Goku from being 4-B to 2-C. So the 160,000x multiplier is a reasonable lowball

?
Low Multiverse level (Grew far stronger since he fought Kid Buu, who exerted power greater than all previous versions of Majin Buu, Super Buu's Vice Shout threatened to completely break down the fabric of space-time which would lead to alternate dimensions leaking over into each other and eventually crushing the universe entirely, it being stated multiple times that this was done with his power.)

 

[Nierre]

you know what he meant

 

[CryoTheMayo]

?
Low Multiverse level (Grew far stronger since he fought Kid Buu, who exerted power greater than all previous versions of Majin Buu, Super Buu's Vice Shout threatened to completely break down the fabric of space-time which would lead to alternate dimensions leaking over into each other and eventually crushing the universe entirely, it being stated multiple times that this was done with his power.)

In the manga continuity Goku is 4-B before BoG. And the same essential logic applies to the anime version, Goku considers God an unreal level of power he never thought was possible and claims fusion isn't enough.

 

[AyOgUyS]

tier 0 Goku soon

 

[AguilaR202]

SSG is soft evidence for AP/power not increasing proportionally with speed, heck even if it were just 3A the gap between it and 4-B is several orders of magnitude larger than the speed amp from 1000c to quintillion c

 

[Gp972]

Cause it was considered stronger than SSJ3 Vegito in BoGs, and base Vegito is >SSJ3 Goku.
So 400x400=160,000

In fact, it should be more because the Potara fusion is x100 and vegeto is stronger than buuhan

 

[Entity]

If I remember correctly, Ssj God is also faster than Ssj Blue, which should be the super saiyan version of ssj God

 

[Gp972]

If I remember correctly, Ssj God is also faster than Ssj Blue, which should be the super saiyan version of ssj God

This is an incoherent dialogue

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If I remember correctly, Ssj God is also faster than Ssj Blue, which should be the super saiyan version of ssj God

No this has never been the case.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

The entire point of Goku and Vegeta switching between God and Blue is to conserve energy usage. They use God to minimize their ki output while maximizing their speed while going Blue to attack in the split second to maximize their attack output then switching back to god instantly to minimize ki output.

 

[Entity]

The entire point of Goku and Vegeta switching between God and Blue is to conserve energy usage. They use God to minimize their ki output while maximizing their speed while going Blue to attack in the split second to maximize their attack output then switching back to god instantly to minimize ki output.

Alright, then when I first watched the series I must have interpreted it wrongly, but then wouldn't that mean that the difference in speed between the two forms isn't that high?

 

[Gp972]

This is further proof that power and speed increase at the same rate, isn't it?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Alright, then when I first watched the series I must have interpreted it wrongly, but then wouldn't that mean that the difference in speed between the two forms isn't that high?

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

In the manga, don't think SSJB is that bad of a form in the anime.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

This the manga innit?

 

[Gp972]

@Nierre I think it's because Vegeta is measured at over 30k power units (Goku x4 has 32k) and Recoome is superior to that vegeta

 

[Entity]

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

and in strength and speed is higher, but doesn't seem to be that much higher than God

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

Though since this is the case, we should probably remove the x50 we currently use it for till they get Perfected Blue.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

This is further proof that power and speed increase at the same rate, isn't it?

I dunno what you're going on about. Zarbon is a transforming-type alien. He suppresses his full power, which includes his strength and speed and all of his other physical stats, by physically transforming. The gap between his normal state and his dormant stats is simply several times.

 

[Omegabronic]

I dunno what you're going on about. Zarbon is a transforming-type alien. He suppresses his full power, which includes his strength and speed and all of his other physical stats, by physically transforming. The gap between his normal state and his dormant stats is simply several times.

what is the power level difference between base Zarbon and Transformed Zarbon?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

what is the power level difference between base Zarbon and Transformed Zarbon?

His base is higher than 18,000 but lower than 23,000
And his transformed state is higher than 23,000 but lower than 30,000

 

[Omegabronic]

His base is higher than 18,000 but lower than 23,000
And his transformed state is higher than 23,000 but lower than 30,000

Wait his Power level does even double even tho his strength and speed do? Isn't that proof that Ki isn't directly 1:1 raised when one stat is raised? Else Zarbon would have to be higher than that

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

In the manga, don't think SSJB is that bad of a form in the anime.

The problem with Blue in the U6 arc is attributed to transforming into it multiple times in one day. It exhausts them to access the form, seemingly more so than simply being in the form. This is depicted in RoF with Goku having a full fight against Golden Freeza just fine and yet Vegeta suffers because he went Blue against Cabba then went Blue against Hit. By the Black Saga they fix it with Vegeta learning to use God as his 'base' form and using Blue in efficient bursts, as God doesn't cause notable strain. Goku takes it a step further by learning how to seal the power in his body so he is constantly at full power. Then by the ToP he can use the Kaio-Ken with it and later the Ultra Instinct technique in Granolah.

The anime doesn't place as much emphasis on Blue's stamina issues, with it only coming up twice in the entire show, to my recollection, and both being throwaway lines. So it doesn't have the same feeling of progression. Goku can just go X10 Blue right after RoF and the stamina issue basically doesn't even exist.

Though since this is the case, we should probably remove the x50 we currently use it for till they get Perfected Blue.

No. The form is a 50x multiplier with a stamina weakness. At most you would add it as a stamina weakness he has until Black. And even then, as I am saying, the form's issue is primarily about transforming into it multiple times a day.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wait his Power level does even double even tho his strength and speed do? Isn't that proof that Ki isn't directly 1:1 raised when one stat is raised? Else Zarbon would have to be higher than that

I think he just didn't double his stats, like no matter how you slice it Kaioken x2 Goku is weaker than Zarbon and Kaioken x4 Goku is stronger than Transformed Zarbon.
His transformation just can't be a "several times increase" using the general definition of "several" (Which DB has done before, looking at Tao)

 

[StrymULTRA]

SSG is soft evidence for AP/power not increasing proportionally with speed, heck even if it were just 3A the gap between it and 4-B is several orders of magnitude larger than the speed amp from 1000c to quintillion c

Better answer: 2-C in DB verse is not infinitely stronger than 4-B as it could be reached by a finite (yet unknown) multiplier.

 

[Nierre]

The problem with Blue in the U6 arc is attributed to transforming into it multiple times in one day. It exhausts them to access the form, seemingly more so than simply being in the form. This is depicted in RoF with Goku having a full fight against Golden Freeza just fine and yet Vegeta suffers because he went Blue against Cabba then went Blue against Hit. By the Black Saga they fix it with Vegeta learning to use God as his 'base' form and using Blue in efficient bursts, as God doesn't cause notable strain.

if I'm understanding you, you're saying the jump from Base or SSJ (anything sub God form) to Blue is more taxing than the jump from God to Blue?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The problem with Blue in the U6 arc is attributed to transforming into it multiple times in one day. It exhausts them to access the form, seemingly more so than simply being in the form. This is depicted in RoF with Goku having a full fight against Golden Freeza just fine and yet Vegeta suffers because he went Blue against Cabba then went Blue against Hit. By the Black Saga they fix it with Vegeta learning to use God as his 'base' form and using Blue in efficient bursts, as God doesn't cause notable strain. Goku takes it a step further by learning how to seal the power in his body so he is constantly at full power. Then by the ToP he can use the Kaio-Ken with it and later the Ultra Instinct technique in Granolah.

Ehh, don't really buy that explanation. Isn't the whole point tied to SSJB's aura constantly leaking Ki, causing the form to get weaker the longer it's active? That's basically why Perfected Blue lacks the aura in the first place, no? Plus, I don't see how that explanation resolves the God --> Blue switching either. They're still transforming into Blue multiple times in a row there, if anything that should make the stamina drain even worse.

And like, it not being shown against Golden Frieza (Wait there wasn't even a Golden Frieza fight in the manga) doesn't really prove anything when Frieza himself had stamina issues withhis Golden Form too, so both of them could've been getting massively weaker over the course of the fight and we wouldn't notice.

No. The form is a 50x multiplier with a stamina weakness.

Hmm, I dunno. Wasn't Perfect Blue Goku (Blue without the Stamina weakness, a.k.a. just a x50 multiplier) fighting pretty evenly with Fused Zamasu?

Honestly if we treat all SSJB showings before they unlocked Perfected Blue as an unknown amp due to its stamina issues it would fix the inconsistency that's the God to Blue thing being a viable thing despite, ya know, everyone they fight being x50 faster than God and as such blitzing them?

Wait didn't that straight-up happen against Fused Zamasu lol