All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Entity]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

from 40 trilions above SoL to the rating proposed in the next crt

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

I think the thread just got passed, so ratings haven't been changed yet. Right now it's a time will tell thing because the standard is really stupid in practice and right now it was only 'enforced' because it downgrades Dragon Ball, but once it starts effecting other verses and people realize how silly it is, its possible there will be enough fuss for a standard revision. Either that or supporters get the other travel feats they have accepted, but that doesn't fix the stupidity of the underlying 'this multipier is too high because I said so, so no upscaling past this number we made up' issue.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The 'small gaps let characters one shot each other' is weak sauce and basically limited to Vegeta one shotting Dodoria. That's not a solid precedent, especially given charged attacks and what not.

Cui is also there.
Think Tao also one-shot General Blue despite only being at most x5 stronger
Nappa was also ripping apart the Z-Fighters while only being x7 stronger
Goku one-shot Recoome despite only being like x2.5 stronger

Black just shrugging off attacks x50 stronger than himself would be a first.

 

[TiltedFN]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

Basically. I think Super Vegito and SS1 Namek Saga Goku are the same speed. Super Vegito would just be really really REALLY higher than 27c. lol.

 

[MannyQ361]

Pre-DBZ power levels are honestly kind of a mess. That said, I don't think we should automatically treat every "several times stronger" statement in DB as a minimum 3x increase. The boost Goku got from training with Korin was also described as making him "several times" stronger, yet it's explicitly only a x2 amp.

Zarbon's specifically doesn't work more cause his PLs are confined between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken x4 Goku's PL, and we all know how linear Kaioken is.

Might need to be changed for the Toei statistics.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

But once it starts effecting other verses and people realize how silly it is, its possible there will be enough fuss for a standard revision.

It didn't even take that long, DDM said he's planning it rn

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Cui is also there.
Think Tao also one-shot General Blue despite only being x5 stronger
Nappa was also ripping apart the Z-Fighters while only being like x7 stronger
Goku one-shot Recoome despite only being like x2.5 stronger?

Black just like shrugging off attacks x50 stronger than them would be a first.

Lmfao no it wouldn't. Super has set a pretty clear precedent. SSJ Goku held his own against Ikari Broly through sheer skill alone, SSB Goku and Vegeta also survive hits from SSJ Broly, hell base form Frieza takes plenty of shots from SSJ Broly.

Hell, half the ToP is characters taking shots from people way stronger. Its only a first if you actively pick and choose your examples.

Its a fck ton of conjecture to grasp at straws that SSB is only 50x god in its perfected form

 

[Davi009997]

Basically. I think Super Vegito and SS1 Namek Saga Goku are the same speed. Super Vegito would just be really really REALLY higher than 27c. lol.

“That makes absolutely no sense. How do Super Saiyan Vegito and Namek Saga Goku have the same speed?”

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

“That makes absolutely no sense. How do Super Saiyan Vegito and Namek Saga Goku have the same speed?”

VSBW moment

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Lmfao no it wouldn't. Super has set a pretty clear precedent. SSJ Goku held his own against Ikari Broly through sheer skill alone, SSB Goku and Vegeta also survive hits from SSJ Broly, hell base form Frieza takes plenty of shots from SSJ Broly.

Half the ToP is characters taking shots from people way stronger. Its only a first if you actively pick and choose.

Bruh you fell for those AI clips? Crazyyy I dunno if we should talk about those, it kinda might ya know, kill the multipliers!?
Seriously though the initial SSJ Broly's only x5 stronger than Goku and Vegeta no? And Golden Frieza doesn't really have a multiplier either.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Bruh you fell for those AI clips? Crazyyy I dunno if we should talk about those, it kinda might ya know, kill the multipliers!?
Seriously though the initial SSJ Broly's only x5 stronger than Goku and Vegeta no? And Golden Frieza doesn't really have a multiplier either.

Its crazy how literally every sentence of this is incomprehensible. like its either shit thats objectively wrong or meming as if proof that destroys the position is actually in a slam dunk that its right

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

“That makes absolutely no sense. How do Super Saiyan Vegito and Namek Saga Goku have the same speed?”

Don't worry yall, if we find a 15c feat, Vegito might be x17 faster than Namek Goku!!!

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Its crazy how literally every sentence of this is incomprehensible

 

[Davi009997]

Don't worry yall, if we find a 15c feat, Vegito might be x17 faster than Namek Goku!!!

If ki covers all attributes, and for some reason Vegito and Goku have the same speed, does that mean they also have the same AP?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Might need to be changed for the Toei statistics.

I remember Null had a thread about the Zarbon transformation but that might've been manga only iirc

 

[Breadbear83]

Can't we propose a weaker and stronger ssj1 scaling? Demon slayer has the demon slayer mark scaling where from a 10x multiplier, they've got characters to upscale 100x from the highest feat of the verse

Literally same would be for DB, upscaling twice from a form multiplier without higher back up feats

At least since Buu saga, base Saiyan's became stronger than ssj1 Namek Goku, as base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than yakon, who's was considered a threat by shin, and piccolo (who already in android saga was outright stated to be comparable to super Saiyan's) admitted that shin was much stronger than him


This could be used multiple times with base Gotenks being stronger than ssj2 majin Vegeta, then post RoSaT Gotenks being stronger than his ssj1 self, base Vegetto being stronger than ssj3 Gotenks, and ssj god being stronger than ssj3 Vegetto, but of course, this may be too much stacking, at least using it once maybe?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Can't we propose a weaker and stronger ssj1 scaling? Demon slayer has the demon slayer mark scaling where from a 10x multiplier, they've got characters to upscale 100x from the highest feat of the verse

Literally same would be for DB, upscaling twice from a form multiplier without higher back up feats

At least since Buu saga, base Saiyan's became stronger than ssj1 Namek Goku, as base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than yakon, who's was considered a threat by shin, and piccolo (who already in android saga was outright stated to be comparable to super Saiyan's) admitted that shin was much stronger than him


This could be used multiple times with base Gotenks being stronger than ssj2 majin Vegeta, then post RoSaT Gotenks being stronger than his ssj1 self, base Vegetto being stronger than ssj3 Gotenks, and ssj god being stronger than ssj3 Vegetto, but of course, this may be too much stacking, at least using it once maybe?

They don't want chain scaling of any kind. They only want to accept travel speed feats.

 

[Kellex]

Can't we propose a weaker and stronger ssj1 scaling? Demon slayer has the demon slayer mark scaling where from a 10x multiplier, they've got characters to upscale 100x from the highest feat of the verse

I heard demon slayer is next on the board.

 

[Mommyleona]

thats getting nuked

I heard demon slayer is next on the board.

It's all an illusion

 

[Breadbear83]

I heard demon slayer is next on the board.

I heard gyutaros feat is being downgraded to 8A but also the hashiras scaling? low 7C yoriichi lmao

 

[Nullflowerblush]

As far as i know, there was no power level of Zarbon transformed

You're right. I was hastily skimming through Zarbon's Wiki page and mistook text referencing Vegeta's Battle Power of 30,000 as referring to Zarbon.

Exactly, farmer with a shotgun, and average humans in general being 5 in PWL doesn't mean they downscale by 27.8 of Roshi blowing up the moon, that Roshi being orders of magnitudes more than 27.8x times stronger than them, not less

You're right. The average human is more like, eh, one-fortieth of Jackie Chun's moon destruction feat, considering Post-Korin Training Goku directly upscales from J.C.'s Kamehameha based off of statements regarding Tao Pai Pai's own abilities and his Dodon Ray, the Story Volume establishes Goku only became "nearly 20 times" more powerful through the combination of his training with Kame-Sen'nin and Korin since the beginning of the series, and at least three different databooks describe Beginning of Series Goku as only "twice as powerful" as the average adult.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wait, ****, are those multipliers going to get axed, too?

 

[Breadbear83]

Gotta try to see if some of the many universal threat statements in dbz manga is validated as MFTL+ and 3B in AP, cuz even millions of years timeframe requires those tiers to destroy the universe

 

[Hasty12345]

Basically. I think Super Vegito and SS1 Namek Saga Goku are the same speed. Super Vegito would just be really really REALLY higher than 27c. lol.

I've lost faith in humanity.

 

[Hasty12345]

I think the thread just got passed, so ratings haven't been changed yet. Right now it's a time will tell thing because the standard is really stupid in practice and right now it was only 'enforced' because it downgrades Dragon Ball, but once it starts effecting other verses and people realize how silly it is, its possible there will be enough fuss for a standard revision. Either that or supporters get the other travel feats they have accepted, but that doesn't fix the stupidity of the underlying 'this multipier is too high because I said so, so no upscaling past this number we made up' issue.

What a joke. Honestly.

 

[TiltedFN]

I've lost faith in humanity.

 

[SomebodyData]

I think the thread just got passed, so ratings haven't been changed yet. Right now it's a time will tell thing because the standard is really stupid in practice and right now it was only 'enforced' because it downgrades Dragon Ball, but once it starts effecting other verses and people realize how silly it is, its possible there will be enough fuss for a standard revision. Either that or supporters get the other travel feats they have accepted, but that doesn't fix the stupidity of the underlying 'this multipier is too high because I said so, so no upscaling past this number we made up' issue.

This is a victim complex talking. This was neither the first time the standard got enforced nor even the last time. It is perhaps, the most extreme example though, as shown in the CRT (The gap between Below Human Speed and MFTL+ was smaller than the multiplier stacking that happened here, for comparison)

I'm sure we'll end up finding feats or DDM will overturn the standards, so I wouldn't be worried too much in the long run tho

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'd have to go digging around for more evidence, but I think you could maybe make an argument for Majin Buu having Limited Invulnerability—or, at the very least, a form of Damage Absorption and Nullification.

 

[TiltedFN]

I'd have to go digging around for more evidence, but I think you could maybe make an argument for Majin Buu having Limited Invulnerability—or, at the very least, a form of Damage Absorption and Nullification.

Yes. He can only be damaged by other Majin Buu's.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Yes. He can only be damaged by other Majin Buu's.

I thought it was he could only lose stamina against another buu- and sense he would have infinite stamina he would have infinite regeneration?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This is a victim complex talking. This was neither the first time the standard got enforced nor even the last time. It is perhaps, the most extreme example though, as shown in the CRT (The gap between Below Human Speed and MFTL+ was smaller than the multiplier stacking that happened here, for comparison)

I'm sure we'll end up finding feats or DDM will overturn the standards, so I wouldn't be worried too much in the long run tho

It's not a victim complex, the standard is either fundamentally bad or is being specifically interpreted by people with flawed understands of the verse to uniquely effect it. Like I'm sorry if this comes across as abarasive, but I'm past the 'victim complex' handwave, its revisionist history considering how this site has handled Dragon Ball.

This isnt me accusing you specifically of contributing to it but I will be frank in saying that two years ago I was actually one of the people who would tell the other supporters to stop talking about bias and whatnot, to focus on just making strong arguments and to trust the system.

But certain decisions and behaviors have made me look like a fool for defending it too many times. Especially since the supporters know this certain instance was out of spite, if the behavior of those who came in to this thread to antagonize some twenty pages ago didnt make it clear

So respectfully, the victim complex accusation isn't one I can take seriously anymore. Your right, its nothing to wig out over but I am not going to hesitate in calling out the politics involved in all this

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I thought it was he could only lose stamina against another buu

He only begins taking damage once he begins losing stamina. Otherwise, no attack has any actual effect on him.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

He only begins taking damage once he begins losing stamina. Otherwise, no attack has any actual effect on him.

Yes. Because he now lacks regeneration. His Regeneration is just really good. These other ablitys don't apply

 

[SomebodyData]

It's not a victim complex, the standard is either fundamentally bad or is being specifically interpreted by people with flawed understands of the verse to uniquely effect it. Like I'm sorry if this comes across as abarasive, but I'm past the 'victim complex' handwave, its revisionist history considering how this site has handled Dragon Ball.

This isnt me accusing you specifically of contributing to it but I will be frank in saying that two years ago I was actually one of the people who would tell the other supporters to stop talking about bias and whatnot, to focus on just making strong arguments and to trust the system.

But certain decisions and behaviors have made me look like a fool for defending it too many times. Especially since the supporters know this certain instance was out of spite, if the behavior of those who came in to this thread to antagonize some twenty pages ago didnt make it clear

So respectfully, the victim complex accusation isn't one I can take seriously anymore. Your right, its nothing to wig out over but I am not going to hesitate in calling out the politics involved in all this

You're right that the wiki has treated the verse poorly in the past. Don't think anyone should ignore that.

I would know, I was on the front lines to get the Roshi feat accepted, getting the Super manga on the wiki, and the Toei / movie unified canon.

But I think it's fair to say there is a victim complex going on, even if we don't want to recognize it. There were already people leaving the wiki / threatening to leave the wiki when the thread dropped - not even waiting for it to be concluded. Most other verses do not have supporters that behave like that.

Especially when you got great supporters like DDM working to revise the standards or great debaters like GodlyCharmander already probably at work at replacing the scaling with feats.

And of course, most staff these days are also DB supporters. This is probably the most DB friendly the wiki has ever been. Even the people who supported enforcing the standards, like Chariot, have upgraded DB in the past.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You're right that the wiki has treated the verse poorly in the past. Don't think anyone should ignore that.

I would know, I was on the front lines to get the Roshi feat accepted, getting the Super manga on the wiki, and the Toei / movie unified canon.

But I think it's fair to say there is a victim complex going on, even if we don't want to recognize it. There were already people leaving the wiki / threatening to leave the wiki when the thread dropped - not even waiting for it to be concluded. Most other verses do not have supporters that behave like that.

Especially when you got great supporters like DDM working to revise the standards or great debaters like GodlyCharmander already probably at work at replacing the scaling with feats.

And of course, most staff these days are also DB supporters. This is probably the most DB friendly the wiki has ever been.

I don't want to drag out a discussion because you were absolutely right in that this isn't a massive deal, if the thread passed the thread passed, we deal with it and move on

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yes. Because he now lacks regeneration. His Regeneration is just really good. These other ablitys don't apply

You can have Regeneration and be susceptible to damage. Ask Cell. Ask any Namekian. Ask Goku. Ask Meta(l?)-Cooler. Ask Maji-Kayo. Ask Seven-Three. Ask Moro. Unless his energy is drained first, Majin Buu is not susceptible to damage, which gives him a unique advantage. He is even described as functionally immortal, and immortals are only capable of infinite regeneration because they cannot take damage unless they are drained of energy.

 

[Omegabronic]

So your argument is..Goku Black not getting one shot? So vibes? That's exactly what I've been telling you lmao. Why would he need to die in One Shot exactly? You act like Dragon Ball characters can't take beatings from beings much stronger than they are.

Considering what happened to Vegeta vs Cui, Goku vs Nappa, Vegeta vs Zarbon, Cell vs Vegeta, and many MANY more fights... yeah they can't, and when they do, it is with severe injures that make them so injured they can't fight anymore, like broken bones, holes in their torsos, etc

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

lmfao confidently wrong

 

[AguilaR202]

Freeza perceiving nameks balls leaving to earth is still the best feat in the manga and only gets screwy if you assume acceleration which isn’t typically applied.

Or that they would have two different travel speeds like the earths Dragon Balls which is immediately debunked as we see them being used and scattered /traveling much more differently than namek balls IN THE SAME CHAPTER.

 

[TiltedFN]

lmfao confidently wrong