All Might vs Sceptile

[Andytrenom]

All Might:6

Sceptile:5

At least, that's what I think the votes are..

 

[Laughing_Manson]

Oh right I forgot, Sceptile for Gyro and Weekly's reasons

 

[Andytrenom]

All Might:6

Sceptile:6

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Sceptile for reasons above.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"In a wild Pokemon fight they aren't going to be using stat lowering moves if they know damaging moves"

Where do you get that...? In-game, wild pokémon randomly pick moves, regardless of the type, and we don't see enough of them in other media to claim that either.

And again, Pokémon aren't brain-dead. If it figures out that spamming attacks is disadvantageous, it would switch to another strategy.

 

[Andytrenom]

All Might: 6

Sceptile:7

 

[Laughing_Manson]

You do know Schnee had already retracted when they voted for All Might, right? Sceptile should have 8 votes.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Doing damage is good. In the wild, doing damage is great.

Stat-lowering requires deliberate planning and active strategy.

In a being that is just fighting without a plan for the future and a strategy, like any animal regardless of intelligence (bar human level and above) it will go for damage primarily. Damage means you can kill something, and killing something is the primary objective of a fight in most scenario. Doing the main objective of a fight isn't stupid, it just isn't smart since you can do it better indirectly.

 

[Schnee_One]

You do know Schnee had already retracted when they voted for All Might, right? Sceptile should have 8 votes.

He doesn't know false information

I voted Sceptile, retracted, then voted All Might

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Weaking your prey is, also, good in the wild. Even in the real world animals do that. And it's much easier to do in Pokémon, alongside Pokémon in general being much smarter than animals. Nevermind the fact that stuff like Mystery Dungeon disproves this, with status moves being thrown around willy-nilly.

By this, you're assuming that half of most pokémon's natural moveset goes unused unless trained to do use them because you think they're too dumb to do anything than spam attacks. Which requires more than just deduction based on comparing fantastical characters to real-life animals.

Also, in most cases, surviving is also one of the main goal of a combat. And status moves would be more helpful than rushing in and spamming normal attacks.

 

[Laughing_Manson]

You do know Schnee had already retracted when they voted for All Might, right? Sceptile should have 8 votes.

He doesn't know false information
I voted Sceptile, retracted, then voted All Might

It's not false. For some reason, a vote was taken away from Sceptile after you voted for All Might, despite the fact that you retracted you're vote for Sceptile long before then. The tally was 3-6 when Insecurity swapped their vote, but when you voted for All Might, it was counted as 4-5, when it should have been 4-6.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well Mystery Dungeon is a completely different canon. If we're using Mystery Dungeon in our profiles (we shouldn't if we're going by games but whatever let's keep our massive conglomeration of composite Pokemon) sure, they will use some of their other moves, but attacking is still going to be a go-to, and Sceptile is bound to go for some melee moves that will leave him open for All Might to land a major hit.

Also, should we even use these Pokemon in battles? For Pokemon that have zero defined personality we're just taking shots in the dark at what they will use. For individuals like Ash's Sceptile we can say what he will use but for a wild one we really are just guessing.

 

[Jackythejack]

That eliminates a lot of pokemon really suddenly dude.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt Sceptile has passives that let a single hit be the equivalent of three as well as passives guaranteeing critical damage combined with moves like Leaf Blade

 

[Andytrenom]

Ash's sceptile stomps due to being 2-C so we can only use a wild one

 

[Paul_Frank]

Why exactly is every pokemon a composite. There is no other verse on the site like this, where each character is a composite of all of their variations throughout the series no matter how different they are. The only characters like this are composite characters and they are few and far between and make more sense to be composite than every pokemon being a composite

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except we accept it as canon here. And attacking being a go-to is also not supported by the games themselves. Again, wild pokémon will do whatever and the player's pokémon will use whatever the player wants. The idea that Pokémon only/mainly use attacking moves isn't supported by the games at all.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Laughing

That's because the guy switched his vote from Sceptile to All Might

 

[Assaltwaffle]

That eliminates a lot of pokemon really suddenly dude.

Yes. But that's what should happen if, not only are they composite blobs of every media regardless of how consistent they are, but they also have zero knowledge mindset, which is very important in VS debating.

 

[Andytrenom]

Wouldn't being a species page make more sense for pokemon than a composite page?

 

[Jackythejack]

Bloodlust then I guess. Eh

 

[Andytrenom]

Or are they the same thing?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Pokémon pages just composite the species' portrayal in all media, since Pokémon canon is weird and most things are kinda-canon but not really. We generally don't composite for specific individuals.

 

[DerpCity]

@Saikou I've been growled at by wild pokemon before, and I've watched them stop spamming tackle to use growl once I've attempted to boost it back up. Meanwhile, I remember having wild Jigglypuff spam Sing while I'm awake, only to use damaging moves until I wake up. I rarely see a wild pokemon use a not-very-effective move on me unless its all they have. So unless that's always been dumb luck or my memory is worse than I remember, I would definitely say wild pokemon don't just randomly use moves, and contrary to Assalt's statement do in fact employ strategies to some regard.

 

[Laughing_Manson]

@Laughing
That's because the guy switched his vote from Sceptile to All Might

If you're referring to Insecurity, then the tally would've went from 2-7 to 3-6. Adding you're vote would've made it 4-6. You didn't retract your vote when voted for All Might, you retracted it right after Assalt voted for All Might, which happened before you retracted you're vote for Sceptile. Hence, Sceptile shouldn't have lost a point when you voted for All Might, as you were neutral before then.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No, I'm pretty sure that you've just had very bad luck, lol. But either way, they certainly don't just spam direct attacks.

 

[Andytrenom]

Guys I counted all the votes from beginning to end myself when I returned to this thread. The tally is fine.

 

[Laughing_Manson]

I'm still getting a different number than you tho. As of Litentric's vote for All Might, the score was 2 votes for All Might, 7 votes for Sceptile. Since then:

Insecurity retracted his vote for Sceptile, and votes for All Might (3-6)

Schnee votes for All Might (4-6)

Paul votes for All Might (5-6)

Spinoirr retracts vote for Sceptile, votes for All Might (6-5)

Jacky votes for Sceptile (6-6)

Dragon votes for All Might (7-6)

I vote for Sceptile (7-7)

Maverick votes for Sceptile (7-8)

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Sceptile FRA

Should be noted that this is a Sceptile, AKA a Pokémon that evolved to the last stage via constant battling and experience. While he may not be a perfect strategist, he knows how to use those moves to bring himself an advantage. This is without considering abilities that automatically activate once certain conditions are met.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Also, do wild Sceptiles even exist given that he's a starter?

 

[Andytrenom]

All Might:6

Sceptile:8

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm going to have to make a thread later about using non-individuals of a random species with no knowable mentality or move set.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also known as every silent protagonist

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I miss Red.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Saikou

"Why wouldn't they be? These kind of moves affect nearly every pokémon equally. Nothing would make it think that they wouldn't work on this "normal" human."

If Sceptile is engaging him seriously, he knows he isn't a normal human.

Wild/non-trained Pokémon engage humans absolutely seriously in-universe. There's a reason why Pokémon humans managed to survive into modern age that isn't just because the series is cute.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Kep it sounds like you're implying humans in Pokemon are comparable to the Pokemon themselves.

IRL beings like Pokemon would absolutely wipe humans off the face of the planet, modern age or otherwise. A single relatively mundane Pokemon could wipe a city off the map if it got pissy. A single Tier 6 could dominate the planet if it wanted to.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Because humans became friends with friendly but strong Pokémons to survive against hostile ones.

That's explained more than once in Pokémon, also without considering that there were humans comparable to Pokémons in the verse, like that one guy in a tale in Canalave's library that literally went around killing Pokémons.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except the dozens upon dozens of humans who have tanked attacks from and physically fouught on par with their pokemon

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Idon't know about that one,cheif.

Pokemon Humans >>> IRL Humans.

 

[Kepekley23]

Kep it sounds like you're implying humans in Pokemon are comparable to the Pokemon themselves.

That was absolutely my intention (ignoring the implications of Tier 6 humanity for a second and just focusing on showings or statements). In fact, I have done respect threads on Pokéhumans many times in the past