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Alien_X speed + contemelia begin 5D+ breaking the 5th wall

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Greenshifter said:
Playing Devil's advocate here but if the Map of Infinity is stated to extend through 17 dimensions, we assume those dimensions are spatio-temporal ones, would the universe be considered 17-dimensional and as such the Anihilaarg being 17-D as well?
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wait what where it stated that map of infinity is to extend throught 17 dimensions??
 
We dont if the 17 dimensions are dimensions from 1 single universe or not , no it fact it most likelly isnt, because the Map Of Infinity can be used to go the Forge of Creation which is outside the universe.
 
I see your point but on the other hand 17 is kinda random since Dagon conquered hundreds of dimensions yet Paradox would somehow only have a map of 17 of them?
 
Professor Paradox said in UA during forge of creation episode 1:06 there "Before the local took notice" and 1:12 "There are places where I can not go and things I can not do" so Likely even greater being than Paradox or it's either Celestialsapiens themselves have limited paradox.
 
@Greenshifter I think the 17 dimensions are spatial, and the 100s of dimensions Diagon conquered are universes, since Azmuth refered to their universe as their dimension. But for all we know some of the 17 spatial dimensions are outside the regular universe.


@DemonicDude yea Celestialsapiens do limit where he goes, they made a deal where Paradox isnt allowed to go closer than 100 lightyears between them. They mentioned this when Paradox was inside Alien X.
 
@Door so you actually agree with them being spatio-temporal (I'm not even sure if I agree myself)? Since there was nothing at the beginning of time except for a void and the Anihilaarg is capable of creating physics, it is likely the Anihilaarg created all 17 spatio-temporal dimensions as well, or at least 5 of them because of the 5-D statement. Now obviously we would still have to prove that one spatio-temporal dimension is infinitely better than another, but hey gotta start somewhere.
 
3D beings such as us humans and most Ben 10 characters cannot perceive higher dimensions in a completezmanner and interact with them, like how we can't really interact with time. So it's likely that when the universe bomb thing exploded it was impossible to see if there was any sort of 5D presence in there
 
Well there is a reason the Contemelia look like Mr. Smoothies to Ben, Rook's family to Rook and Maltruants to Maltruants, all at the same time.

Well yes it's not really possible to see higher dimensions created with a Big Bang unless they somehow show it.
 
If the setting does not explicitly treat higher dimensions as automatically infinitely and/or qualitatively superior, we should not do so either, and infinite or immeasurable speed generally should be demonstrated to be reliable. This thread should probably be closed.
 
Antvasima said:
If the setting does not explicitly treat higher dimensions as automatically infinitely and/or qualitatively superior, we should not do so either, and infinite or immeasurable speed generally should be demonstrated to be reliable. This thread should probably be closed.
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and? Alien_X is above time also Alien_X was able to move fine whene the universe got destroyed so yeah Alien_X speed is infinity
 
An outlier? For Alien X? Come on man their pocket reality isn't even in the universe, I think the Forge of Creation was even stated somewhere to have no time and not just out of sync with time and the main argument here is omnipresent for the pocket dimension anyways.

@Ant I'd leave it open since this probably removes Acausality type 2 from his profile so we'd have to deal with this anyways.
 
Ok. The AP upgrade shouldn't happen as it's:

1. A massive outlier.

2. The wiki rules go against it.

As for the Soeed upgrade, idk.
 
1) Outliers for Celestialsapiens are kinda meh since they are stated to be the strongest beings in the universe and should as such be treated as supreme beings.

2) Well I guess we were still in discussion about the 17-dimensions and if it's worth looking into then we could.

I would prefer if this thread is mainly about speed tho since that is most likely to actually book some results.
 
If Alien X has not conclusively demonstrated infinite or immeasurable speed, we also cannot assign it based on conjecture. Sorry.
 
You should preferably ask Andytrenom and other staff members listed in the Ben 10 verse page to comment here.
 
I agree with Antvasima that since the spatio dimensions have never been stated to be infinite or higher than the one below it, destroying all 17 cant be used to give Alien X an upgrade, since we know nothing about them.

As for the speed, why wouldnt Alien X scale to Paradox, who is already listed as having infinite speed? Alien X is consistently implied to be the supreme being of Ben 10, both by the creators and by credible characters in the show.

The Soul King gets scaled to the fastest Bleach character simply because he's a supreme being and not because of any speed feat or any statement implying he's the fastest in the series. So why not do the same to Alien X?
 
Has Alien X demonstrated the ability to stop time? Just because it is more powerful than Paradox does not automatically mean that it has all of his abilities.
 
Alien X has complete control over the space-time of the universe as stated on his page and his very first portrayal was reversing time on a small scale.

Atomic-X not using time hax to counter Maltruant's time hax (who's time hax is stated to be superior to Clockwork's who can reverse time on a multiversal scale) is one of the reasons he got downgraded to tier 5 since everyone assumed Alien X would be able to counter it. Also Alien X's pocket dimension is created by or with himself, while regular dimensions with time are created by the Contemelia with Anihilaargs. Lastly Ben does not age within Alien X's pocket dimension since Bellicus was gonna ignore him for a 1000 years and then put him on fire for another 1000 years.
 
Well, I am still not certain if he can stop time, but I suppose that an "At least MFTL+ (Insert calculation link here), possibly Infinite (Has control over time, and should scale to Professor Paradox)" might work.
 
We need more staff input first though. Have you asked Andytrenom and DarkDragonMedeus?
 
Okay. Then it is probably fine. Should we scale him outright, or use the option that I suggested earlier?
 
Ant's suggestion imo. We know for a fact he is at least this fast and isn't shown to scale to Paradox in speed (though it's a logical conclusion given "insert omnipotent statements from Paradox here"). Better to be on the safe side imo unless we have more concrete evidence.
 
Okay. I think that my option seems safer then.
 
Yeah that's fine, I was thinking on maybe only treating the pocket dimension as infinite speed but that's probably a bit too complicated and might contradict the Galactic Gladiator fight, so I'm fine with the possibly option.
 
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