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Actually they are 5D beings so they are big enough for them to be affected by the 4D big bang, I think this was basically your point that 3D beings don’t have to worry about the 4D component of the Big Bang?
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Alien X 3-A Downgrade
- Thread starter TauanVictor
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Vietthai96
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what????
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They're very clearly not infinitely or even significantly large across 5 dimensions. Even then, this point seems out of left field.
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Nah but they’re big enough to actually get some amount of 4D energy on them. Tbf the entire argument of the Big Bang is just hax and it only affects people in the present in a place with no time feels out of left field.
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This beings aren't 5D in that sense, just being born in any higher dimension doesn't mean anything w/o proof of it applying mathematically like we use it. For example this guy is from the 5° dimension too, is he larger than a timeline or something notable? No, he's just a powerful alien in a 3D body like you and me.
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They are stated to be fifth-dimensional, so not coming from the 5th dimension. So they do in fact have 5 dimensions (which is one of the reasons 3D beings cannot perceive their true form and they appear as varying beings and objects to everyone), we just don’t treat having 5 dimensions as being inherently superior to having 3 dimensions.
From the tiering system FAQ:
“
Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional equivalents?
Unintuitive as that may be: Not necessarily, as a number of characteristics through which we quantify the strength or power of a character can remain unchanged when transitioning between higher and lower dimensions. For example: Mass is a quantity that is detached from the dimension of the object which it is inherent to, and unlike volume is not divided in units corresponding to each particular dimension (1-volume [length], 2-volume [area], 3-volume, 4-volume...). It is singular in nature and its units equally apply to all dimensions; whether it is distributed over an area or a volume only tells us about the span of space in which it is spread, not about the quantity itself.…
Hence, a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.
Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.
Also it is implied that the Contumelia could stop Maltruant’s Annihilaargh so them having higher-dimensional power is a possibility, take that as you will.
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they should keep it then
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With all due respect, that is very stupid. A characters stated to be from the 5° dimension or any other dimension can easily be assumed to have a 5 dimensional body or of the number of the dimension it comes from in the context of the verse because the numeration of it would correspond to it just like the most common characters are 3-Dimensional even if not stated just because they are in the 3° dimension and that numeration would correspond them. There is no magic rule that makes "coming from the 5° dimension & nothing more" mean nothing and yet "being fifth-dimensional & nothing more" a statement on the size of the body of the characters, it's the same. What Tiering FQA meant by "higher-dimensional beings", in that context, are higher-dimensional beings who follow math as we ideally pointed out and as most work of fiction don't use.
I bet that if I waste some 2 or 3 hours I can find some characters from the 4° or higher dimension who are also stated to be 4 or whatever number dimensional, and yet the characters just have a 3 dimensional body because their series never made them have more than that. Am I required to do something like that just because of the unpolished Tiering FQA?
I bet that if I waste some 2 or 3 hours I can find some characters from the 4° or higher dimension who are also stated to be 4 or whatever number dimensional, and yet the characters just have a 3 dimensional body because their series never made them have more than that. Am I required to do something like that just because of the unpolished Tiering FQA?
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yes
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The Tiering FQA also leads to people believing things like Tier 1 Kirby, Doom, etc., with no disrespect or harm meant, we should literally use drawings and videos to explain things while always using a basic and redundant wording, because if government pages and the like do so for easy things only aimed at adults then we, who deal with more complex stuff and have adults as only part of our members, should do so as well. Pages with drawings and videos do so to help the same kind of people we deal with, from a bit distracted and in a hurry to worst than it, and also just be more clear in general, which we fail at in a way that things get left at interpretation between even staff. The latter should be embarrassing rather than "ah well, it's their personal take on the matter".
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Then that verse is inconsistent with itself. If a character is stated to be 5th-dimensional then it has 5 mathematical dimensions, I’m not talking about the size of these individual dimensions or what not.
Certain 3D characters can come from higher-D constructs.
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Indirect shot to Peptocoptr implying that he doesn’t get the tiering system, good going. Lemme tell you something Eficiente, I believed in tier 1 Kirby before even he did and it’s not based on the tiering system Q&A and what not. So you need to stop implying that people who push for certain tier 1 ratings just don’t get the tiering system.
I do agree with you that things can be more clearer and more consistent.
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Idk who Pepsi Copter is or what he has to do with this conversation, but let’s remember to keep things on track y’all. No offense, but maybe nip this in the bud before accusations get out of hand.
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That is you dogmatically believing they have to refer to mathematical dimensions and that if they don't then that's the specific fault of the verse in a way that others don't get affected, which is nonsensical as most verses already don't use dimensions like that, we already don't take coming from [X number] dimension as anything and this is the same and you have no proof of there being more examples of your take being the case.
1 example of it not being the case is the Fourth Dimensional Being from Rick & Morty's season 2's first episode, whose body wasn't across all time and his race needed a machine to time travel, to all the staff here, once again, am I required to spend time finding examples like this to prove my point?
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Doom was rejected, Kirby "at least" (to be generous on the idea) wasn't accepted, this is needlessly accusatory as your only example of me "implying that people who push for certain tier 1 ratings just don’t get the tiering system" is just a verse that wasn't accepted, whereas manyTier 1 CRTs get made by misunderstanding the Tiering and its FQA and those get rejected. I was stating a fact with 1 "bad" example.
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Look I am at aware that there are exceptions such as DC’s 6th dimension. But those are actually explained. And that’s still not the same as outright stating your dimensionality. Like how do you expect me to prove that x-dimensional beings actually exist in x amount of dimensions if a literal statement of their dimensionality isn’t enough? It can’t be the reality-fiction gap either cause then they would be at least low 2-C and thus no higher-D beings who aren’t at least low 2-C would exist.
1) 4D beings don’t need to be across all time, 2) the 4th dimension could be spatial in Rick & Morty. 3) He could be hindered to travel through time similarly to how we can’t travel through say mountains to get where we want to be. Also I’m talking about what the default assumption should be, not whatever verse you can find that doesn’t follow the default assumption.
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It getting rejected or not accepted doesn’t tie to them not getting the tiering system, their evidence might simply be deemed insufficient or there might be other factors such as translations that come into play. So you’re still needlessly targeting people.
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That is contradictory, something like saying the "4° dimension" is also talking about dimensionality and yet that doesn't do anything, fiction more often than not doesn't use the word dimension correctly and it is you how put a distinction between x-dimensional referring to dimensionality while the number of the dimension doesn't. You have no reason to claim that the dimensionality of a being is more notable than that of their dimension. As said before, your attitude on the matter is dogmatic, why is "stating your dimensionality" only applicable to being X dimensional and not from X dimension? By thinking on why we don't use the latter without further evidence and the reasons for it you should be able to conclude that, due to being the same, it applies to being X dimensional too. Or when I said that fiction doesn't use the word dimension correctly you weren't call this "dimensionality" too?
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I like how you site the vsbw page like it's some kind of valid source but the first thing the page you link says is "The Contumelia are a fifth-dimensional alien race of neutral, cosmos-travelling "observers", and the original creators of the Annihilargh" and "We are the Contumelia. We are fifth-dimensional forms that cannot be seen by your eyes" You've kinda had a howler there mate
. Besides that they are straight up stated to be 5th dimensional, I don't know where the confusion is coming from. Furthermore, It's never stated or implied they only born in any higher dimensional only. In fact, the sole reason Ben and Rook weren't able to perceive them properly was because they were extra dimensional beings. So I honestly don't know what you're getting at here.I can give you the entire statement btw, here it is, directly stated to be 5D. Also it's never ever ever stated that he was born in any higher dimension, if it was then I would agree with you because I agree that being born in a higher dimension doesn't inherently mean they are said higher dimension however in this case and my main problem with the argument is that they weren't stated to be born in a higher dimension, they were stated to be that higher dimension.
Question and I'll come back to this, in what sense do you think they're referring to then, cause I don't see another dimension they are talking about. Again the context to that is Ben and Rook not being able to perceive them due to them being of a higher spatial/temporal dimensions so I again I don't know what you're talking about here, please clarify.
Then you try and bring up this bullshit example of some random alien from tmnt trying to say he isn't 5D because he isn't larger than a timeline. (let's just say fro the sake of arguing he is) According to vsbw standards you being a extra dimension being is practically meaningless unless it's confirmed in your verse that higher dimensions are being infinitely bigger/stronger than the lower ones. Therefore, according to vsbw you can still be 5D but it doesn't inherently have to be beyond infinitely bigger/stronger than the ones below it and thus wouldn't qualify for tiers above multiversal+ unless you can prove the verse in question works that way (Which is something I don't fully agree with but it's your standards after all). And here's a small quote from the entire page which you need to read "Higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status". I honestly can't believe a moderator on vsb didn't know. That's also why characters such as Solaris have something like higher dimensional existence but don't have low complex ap and stuff.
All in all according to vsbw standards, you don't have to be bigger than a timeline to be 5D unless you prove 5D is beyond infinitely bigger than the dimensions below it.
Anyway you seem to think that they aren't talking about dimensions in the spatial/temporal sense, so I would love to know in what sense are they talking about and in what sense is The Contumelia 5D.
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dimensions in ben 10 are legit higher dimensions because of that green alien thingy stating that humans perceive only 3 dimensions and the contumilia also can't be perceived due to being 5D
we don't have them at tier 1 because of many reasons, but it doesn't invalidate their higher dimensionality
we don't have them at tier 1 because of many reasons, but it doesn't invalidate their higher dimensionality
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Another example, in Marvel you have the Fourth-Dimensional Man from the Fourth Dimension, which is a powerful man-like alien from a parallel universe with human-like aliens.
Another example are machines and such called "dimensional" something or even "multi-dimensional" something, any reason why dimensional here isn't about dimensionality but yet when a specific number before is given then it is taking about spatiotemporal dimensions?
Another example are machines and such called "dimensional" something or even "multi-dimensional" something, any reason why dimensional here isn't about dimensionality but yet when a specific number before is given then it is taking about spatiotemporal dimensions?
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I don't understand this point at all. Him being called "Fourth-Dimensional Man" is meaningless, it's just a name. Him being from the fourth dimension says nothing without further context or proof of his dimensionality. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees you being from an higher dimension doesn't inherently make you said dimension.
It doesn't really matter because the name can literally just be referring to 3D, we are technically multi dimensional. We have multi dimensions. Furthermore, obviously, we wouldn't say they are higher dimensional because of their name, that would be such a blatant name/nominal fallacy. Same reason we don't say Bruce Banner is a bat man because he's called Batman, simple asf.
If you put a specific number in front it and describe (Not call them as in their name) as let's just say 12 dimensional, nothing contradicts it, it's in context then yes, a valid interpretation would absolutely be that they are talking about spatial/temporal dimensions, again that's pretty simple. I honestly, don't even know another interpretation you could take there, it would then just be blatantly stated. I should also add that the context of the world dimensional would be in reference to measurements/dimensions.
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Let me get this straight. The only reason the 5D beings in Ben 10 are put at "Unknown" is because we don't know how the source material meant to use the term "dimensional" in "5th dimensional". Is that right? Fiction is often vague when using terms like these, and so we have to go with the lower estimation. What if it was outright stated that they're referring to mathematical dimensions in those statements? In other words, what if it was firmly established that those beings are in fact 5-dimensional rather than from the "5th dimension"? What tier would they have then? If even then, it's still irrelevant to the tier, then what's the point of the discussion we're having right now?
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I’m not seeing why we are wasting time with this higher D discussion on the Contemelia when it literally changes nothing about the actual discussion.
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who tf ever mentioned alien x
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Idk either but at the same time I don't really care, maybe ask Shifter. Usually when I see a shit take I just pounce
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I didn't affirm they aren't fifth-dimensional beings, but that they refer to spatiotemporal dimensions in a way that this comment makes sense.I like how you site the vsbw page like it's some kind of valid source but the first thing the page you link says is "The Contumelia are a fifth-dimensional alien race of neutral, cosmos-travelling "observers", and the original creators of the Annihilargh" and "We are the Contumelia. We are fifth-dimensional forms that cannot be seen by your eyes" You've kinda had a howler there mate
They already have an ability on it in their profile, yes.
They are referring to the 5° dimension.
Ok, that's something notable to their nature of being 5-D that other basically-just-aliens higher dimensional beings don't have, but that still doesn't mean that their spatiotemporal dimensions are large across 5 dimensions and that so they would be hit by a 4-D Big Bang.
Other comments sorta disagree with me for the sake of it as they know that's just being higher dimensional (w/ a number) doesn't do anything on its own or still insist that they refer to spatiotemporal dimensions for reasons not worth getting into.
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So you're saying that dimensionality has no impact on tiering whatsoever? Then what's the point of this part of discussion?
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After 25 years you finally respond lmfao.
Guys what Mr Moderater, I'm saying that It is in that sense, vsbw has it on their page which you link as in the spatial temporal sense, it's stated and in reference to spatial temporal dimensions. That's why they gave him HIGHER DIMENSIONAL EXISTENCE, because he's higher dimensional in the spatial temporal sense...
Here's what I don't get if you know that one the page YOU linked said they are fifth dimensional beings then showed that they were talking about spatial and temporal thus giving it higher dimensional existence, why in the world would you send it. Do you disagree with it? Ff so how about you make a CRT about it after this.
First off why would they do that. Secondly, what is the "5° dimension" explain that please. Thirdly, why then would they say "fifth dimensional" if they were trying to convey the message that they are "5° dimension". Honestly, that doesn't even sound right, "We are the contumelia, we are "5° dimension" and we cannot be perceived by your eyes" like wtf. Where is this even coming from, I've never even heard the term "5° dimension" in my entire life so I'm seriously wondering why you think the writers were and used it rather than the much more logical, widely known and accepted dimensions in spatial/temporal sense. I'm very curious to know what this interpretation even means and why it would make any contextual sense.
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If nobody has anymore points they want to bring up we can close this dumb thread.But before that Ima respond to this cause honestly it's looks to be directed straight at me.
We are disagreeing with the argument you have presented because it simply isn't good, I'll just straight up say it. The argument isn't good. If the context is all pointing to it being spatial/temporal the best assumption to have if that's the case is that it is spatial/temporal not some random made up shit like "5 degree dimensions". If you disagree, I would LOVE to say you make a few CRT, I would love to see it. Make a CRTfor Solaris, make a CRT for the Contumelia, make a CRT for Bill Cipher, make a CRT for Six fold god, make a CRT Belldandy, make a CRT for the chaos gods, make a CRT for Gan, make a CRT Alternity. Welp, better get to it bro! Hope they all go through bro! Ima be rooting for you on every single one bro! #GotYourBackBro
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So can we, like, get back on track with the main discussion?
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Well why don't we talking about "26D Najilians" instead of 5D Contemelia 
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I would love to but I think it's done in. Alien X stays uni+ unless you have some refutations or more points to bring up. I think someone should close this now.
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