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Aizen vs Madara

Aizen won cuz apparently KS affects Madara.

That and he's a smarter fighter with a lot of versatility. I mean apparently there's a Kido that controls time.

Oh and they're both "obviously" faster than light so that's also a thing
 
Although kinda omega wanking Aizen's Hōgyoku though.
 
They basically said the only reason he lost with it was that deep down he didn't want to beat Ichigo. Basically saying that if he wants to, he can always win.
 
@DMUA

Now that's taking it out of context. That was always a possibility. Doesn't mean when they say it they mean "if he wants to he can always win" unless they explicitly said that. I'm one of those who believe it wasn't because he was rejected but because he wanted to lose. Doesn't mean I think if he wants to he can get away with absolutely anything :p
 
I'm not about to go in there again either.


Okay fine. Later though.
 
I loved it all in all (cause aizen wins of course)

but its not to say i find some things questionable,one thing that bugs me is the entire thing they said about how aizen can deal with the limbo clones using the method shinji did to dispel kyokko since that kido was never really explored in depth in the slightest so im not sure if they can really use that argument.

the point i agree with the most is how its basically the end for madara when he's subjected into KS because he has no defense against it and anything he has to do for the rest of the fight is basically pointless when aizen finally subjects him into KS.
 
Didn't they say though that's because Madara doesn't have Reishi or something of the sort? Doesn't that mean under verse equalization he would have resistance to it?
 
well in character, they said that Madara is too prideful and full of himself to actually outright try and kill Aizen, so Aizen would have KS him long before he tried to even counter it.
 
gotta be honest. winning cuz ur enemy cant MENTALLY fight back doest actually make u stronger. just saying. ps, anyone still thinks that aizen still the magical stone/orb thingy on/in him? cuz seth was right about one (and one thing only) and that was that aizen's growth of power in the chair should've been impossible UNLESS HE STILL HAD THAT STONE AND IT'S REACTIVE EVOLUTION POWERS. what do u peops think?
 
I mean if I stepped into a ring and wasn't mentally prepared to fight back, whether it be because I'm not confrontational or because I'm cocky.. Stronger or not I'm putting myself at a disadvantage. Same goes for Madara. Unless you were talking about KS in which case mind fuckery is fuckery :p

Aizen for sure still has the hogyokou. No way he doesn't. How else could we explain him being fine with a hole punched in his chest? That and yea the getting stronger while in jail bit.
 
kay. cool. I have a doubt/question. how is final form aizen (vs dangai ichigo) higher than perfect juubi obito? like, just how?
 
just go read the wiki... or watch the show... or read the manga... maybe even buy a databook... oh, there's always the movie.
 
It could've possibly kept evolving him like it did against Ichigo

But I have a feeling Yhwach would just end up absorbing him like he was gonna do in canon
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
kay. cool. I have a doubt/question. how is final form aizen (vs dangai ichigo) higher than perfect juubi obito? like, just how?
Click to expand...
Scaling from Kenpachi's High 6-A feat
 
DMUA is correct about what they said about the hogyoku. They applied heavy NLF to it, essentially saying that he would be able to use his reactive evolution to get out of any situation, which is far from the truth (he wasn't able to beat Yhwach, although that was partially because of hax. But still. It's not like he's suddenly gonna react and hit star level out of nowhere. By that logic he could beat Goku).

Some things they equalized when I'm not sure they should have. Madara's limbo clones don't necessarily exist in the same plane as Aizen, and there's no real proof to actually suggest such. I also can't recall if Madara is the one who has to control them or if they are able to act independently.

My thing is, if they're going to equalize the verses, then there is the prospect that Madara could break out of KS using his own defenses to illusions, since it would be, in part, chakra based. It affects the senses, which his chakra is directly connected to.

I think everyone here has similar feelings about their speed.

I personally am not a fan of planet level Bleach characters. Not because it's not plausible, but because I can't recall any actual calcable feats that would place them at that level. Essentially, Aizen only wins because of KS and an NLF reactive evolution. I find KS to be a fair argument, but it's not as though Madara can do nothing. Aizen would still have difficulty getting through the Susano'o if it's summoned, and he'd still have to deal with limbo clones among other potential threats. I feel they downplayed what Madara was capable of. Even if I agree that KS would give Aizen an eventual win, it wouldn't be as simple as they made it out to be.

KS is quite broken thought. I still give props to Kubo for making an ability like that so popular.
 
Honestly the thing that struck me the most from that video was that one time manipulationg Kido.

Everything else can be chalked up to what you said @Litentric but it's a matter of perspective. I mean hell they said Aizen no longer has bankai since he transcended past it like Ichigo. Yet Ichigos True Bankai surpasses Dangai. So they wrote Aizens Bankai completely out of the Equation. Which I think is scary. Given that assuming KS works on Madara they're on fairly equal footing. Aizen WITH Bankai? WHEW
 
Lol, yeah. their kido thing was way off. I wasn't even sure why they were comparing it to a black hole. They've gone through the whole 'warping space' thing with Might Guy. I don't see why it would different for Bleach.

Yeah, the whole Aizen no longer needing Bankai was their head canon. Lol. If Swagkage was there, he's not as good at debating imo, but he certainly would have squared away some of their Naruto discrepancies.

Aizen with Bankai likely solos the HST. It's probably one of the few things that legitimately scares me.
 
Oh and as for reactive evolutions. TBH the NLF did go a long way but the problem is we know so little about it.. I mean shit he climbed all the way to planet level. Presumably solely thanks to the hogyokou. There's no reason to really doubt if he's pushed to the limit he wouldn't continue evolving. Or "powering up" I suppose. Given that though I understand we can't lean on it because it is an NLF but I do think he'd be able to evolve and adapt to the likes of the TSB per-say. and get something of a stat amp. Those 2 things I don't see as unreasonable. Also as for the clones they act on their lonesome but Aizen can sense energy from other dimensions so I don't think he'd have a problem playing tag with them whilst fighting Madara. Mainly because iirc Aizen is notably faster. I'm no expert so is it considered a blitz if Madara is around Mach 3300 while Aizen is at around Mach 4000?

EDIT: Aizens Bankai would likely be reality warping right? I mean that would be the logical step up from illusions no? It would be like a far more potent Visionary. At least that's what I think.

EDIT 2: Yea, If Aizen didn't think Yhwach was worth using Bankai on.. nough said.
 
Scaling from Kenpachi's High 6-A feat

how does that even work? aizen's strongest attack is the cero thingy in his butterfly times 6 (cuz he can make 6 of those at the same time), and if they are only (idk. really. so sorry if im wrong) mt to island lvl each, then how is he higher than 6-A when juubito fired 6 bijuu bombs that are country lvl each? like, scaling works, and I wont disagree (unless it is actually stated otherwise, proved wrong, or pis [aizen cutting yawabach's throat with a weakass sword even though he tanked a gran ray cero+ a double getsutansho from a bankai+ fullbring+ quincy+ hollow powered ichigo]) but wont scaling things from other calcs kinda mess up the way the story goes (example- in dragon ball super, anilaza was meant to be, by logic of how the show goes and has always gone with villains, stronger than kefla, but by calcs and scalling and logic, he isn't. see what I mean?).
 
I know we use planet level here, and that was after much debate. But their greatest actual feat is only High 6-A (the OBD still has them at country level for the same feat I believe). That's a whole two tier jumps. Like I said before, the statements before give plausibility to it, but it doesn't change the fact that their isn't a concrete feat to my knowledge.

Nah, that's not a blitze to my knowledge. Aizen isn't even twice as fast. The speed advantage is certainly his, but not enough to blitz kill. Besides, simply being able to blitz doesn't guarentee a victory. One blitz doesn't equal instant death, especially since that's not really Aizen's go to plan. He's typically more mid distance to start before going in, setting up with KS and kido (minus his monster form).

Aizen's hogyoku can give him stat amps, but that's not what brought him to post time skip Ichigo levels. He was mental training in the chair. There's no proof IIRC that the hogyoku did anything for him other than give immortality after he was defeated. It's head canon to say otherwise, as it hasn't been shown. The question can be asked: Why didn't he just adapt to Yhwach? It's not as though Yhwach can change the fact that Aizen has the hogyoku inside of him. Yhwach just kinda...one shot him with his hand, and that was while he was using KS.

We should just make a thread on what folk think Aizen's bankai would be. I think it would be interesting and fun to see.
 
Because

TS Ichigo => Kenpachi

High 6-A True Shikai

Dangai Ichigo <= TS Ichigo

High 6-A Dangai

Aizen was able to damage Ichigo's arm making him comparable

High 6-A Aizen

And pre timeskip it only applies to them, everyone else before the Lost Agent Arc are Island+ and lower

And Yhwach never tanked a Bankai Getsuga, in fact it one shotted him(But he used Almighty to revive himself
 
@Lorenzo

We take the highest feats. I get where you're going (Seth has a strong influence it seems, lol), but that logic doesn't apply here as Aizen outclasses Kenpachi while sealed in his chair. Even story wise, Aizen is supposed to be far above Kenpachi. Kenpachi's feat is the best one in the series in terms of a calcable AP feat, so everyone equal to and above Kenpachi gets the scaling. Much of powerscaling is based upon the lore anyway. But even in dbs, since it's uncertain by how much UI increases Goku's power, and Jiren could likely solo the remaining members of Universe 7, then it's hard to even say there if the story wants Anilaza to be stronger. I agree with animegirl on this one, that was more to showcase the teamwork they would need to, presumably, take out Universe 11.
 
Litentric Teon said:
@Lorenzo

We take the highest feats. I get where you're going (Seth has a strong influence it seems, lol), but that logic doesn't apply here as Aizen outclasses Kenpachi while sealed in his chair. Even story wise, Aizen is supposed to be far above Kenpachi. Kenpachi's feat is the best one in the series in terms of a calcable AP feat, so everyone equal to and above Kenpachi gets the scaling. Much of powerscaling is based upon the lore anyway. But even in dbs, since it's uncertain by how much UI increases Goku's power, and Jiren could likely solo the remaining members of Universe 7, then it's hard to even say there if the story wants Anilaza to be stronger. I agree with animegirl on this one, that was more to showcase the teamwork they would need to, presumably, take out Universe 11.
Click to expand...
sorry to quote something this big, but really, seth is a ******* ****** so comparing me to him please lol... oh, and which kenpachi are we even talking about? cuz the kenpachi that took on yawbach's clone (Lloyd loyd) made a crater comparable to chair aizen's black coffin (the gravity kido thingy) when he hit Lloyd arm (I can get a u page number and whatnot, but I don't know how to post a pic, so I wont do that lol), and that happened before his shikai training with unohana. ps, how u come u guys put base aizen so high just cuz of a statement? like, do u legit think that base aizen can defeat ulquiorra, even though when he was fighting the captains, he was actually losing to an extant, and could only take on two at the same time? (when toshiro and the lazy ass captain guy teamed up, they killed him then and there... in his illusion at least, which was a perfect copy of aizen himself, so that makes it really weird but I guess u get my point)
 
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