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This is one of the more controversial stat additions that I, at one point, disagree with. But as time went on, the logic against FTL Dr. Eggman got weaker and weaker in my mind till it became more factual than not.
So, I'm scaling Sonic's Base speed to Eggman and give the Super Peel Out further justification of being faster than Sonic's Base Speed
The scaling for Dr. Eggman's only known running speed during the Classic Era:
Ending of Sonic 1
Ending of Sonic 2
Ending of Sonic & Knuckles or Sonic 3 & Knuckles
What really convinced me:
Of the 4 Mainline (CD is mainline-ish), Dr. Eggman consistently runs ahead of Sonic the Hedgehog with Sonic only able to keep up. Its well-known that many believe (including myself) this can only be considered Game Mechanics or Classic Sonic's "Casual Speed" that allowed Dr. Eggman to appear just as fast as Classic Sonic's base speed. There are reasons for the common belief, like Eggman is a human and Sonic is supposed to be the fastest guy around.
While Dr. Eggman being human really doesn't mean anything in fiction when it comes to how strong or fast a character is, Sonic the Hedgehog is known to be the fastest thing around. So its not plausible for Dr. Eggman run as fast as Sonic.
I believed that Dr. Eggman couldn't scale either. But I have changed my mind on it.
1.
Dr. Eggman does already scale to Sonic's base speed, due to being the final boss of every classic level and future boss fights in the Modern era. A famous example in the Modern era is the Opening of Unleashed, as Dr. Eggman is operating a Mech that is controlled by his own movements. Almost intercepting Sonic's Homming Attack and missing by a hair, and grabbing Sonic. Sonic wasn't using his Boost during his fight with Dr. Eggman.
2.
Ending of Sonic CD
Now this ending is what really convinced me Dr. Eggman's apparent speed is more than Game Mechanics. Sonic isn't able to pass Dr. Eggman in Sonic 1, 2 and 3 & Knuckles but is able to past Dr. Eggman in Sonic CD. Out of the 4 Classic games, Sonic CD is the only one Sonic has access to the Super Peel Out, which is a known Stat increase higher than Sonic's base speed. With the Super Peel Out, Sonic is able to outrun and surpass Dr. Eggman.
Now, the discussion of Eggman's speed came from Sonic 2, as Gamers reaching the ending and using the spindash reach top speed in order to catch Dr. Eggman. The issue with that is, the Spindash is not a stat booster like the Super Peel Out. It allows Sonic to reach top speed from a standstill. If Eggman already scales to Sonic's top speed without any speed amps, then the Spin Dash doesn't let Sonic catch him.
Why this works for me, narratively, the Super Peel Out keeps Sonic being the fastest guy around, while keeping Eggman scaling to his base speed in Boss fights and these Classic game endings making sense.
Is Dr. Eggman a Human?
Yes.
Shouldn't he scale to other humans?
Not really. For one, humans as a species don't have many feats or justifications in the Games for Eggman to scale to them and vice versa, other than "human". There are times when other humans have shown to scale to Sonic and Co., at least in reaction and combat speed.
Dr. Eggman himself has so much scaling to Sonic and Co.'s base speed in Reaction and Combat Speed, who most of the cast treats Dr. Eggman seriously, thats it's unquestionable Eggman scales without looking at other humans.
Classic Sonic using "Casual Speed"
So, I know why this idea of Sonic having a casual speed during the Classic Games came to be. Cause he was chasing Eggman and didn't catch up. I mean, an explanation had to be created in the face of Game Mechanics for the story to make sense with Sonic's narrative to be the fastest guy around. But Sonic not trying to catch up to Eggman does run counter to the story of the Classic games.
Before going into that, some believe Classic Sonic shares the same personality as Modern Sonic and both view Dr. Eggman the same way. Yes, in Modern times, Sonic still takes Eggman seriously but he isn't urgent about it. But in Sonic Generations, before Classic meets Modern and realize he is standing next to himself, in comparison, dashes immediately towards Classic Eggman when he realize Classic Eggman is up to something.
Another thing people also believe, Classic Sonic had shown annoyance to Dr. Eggman, instead of seeing him as a serious threat. They imply since Sonic showed annoyance to Eggman, he wouldn't have ran after Dr. Eggman seriously.
But, the only time Sega showed Classic Sonic being annoyed by something, it was a comment by Amy Rose.
The story of the Classic Games, as the games went on, had Dr. Eggman prove more and more as a character to be stop. Sonic 2's no rings boss fight against Mecha Sonic, only to follow it up without rings against the Death Egg Robot. The final levels of Sonic 3 & Knuckles called for Sonic to take everything more serious than before, as he spent Sonic 3 to prevent the Death Egg from being launched, only for Eggman to succeed and launch it anyway in Sonic & Knuckles, but this time, Dr. Eggman had the Master Emerald too, the bigger emerald than the Emeralds that allow him to go Super Sonic.
With Sonic's efforts in Sonic 3, Sonic wouldn't have taken the situation in & Knuckles easy going, especially after the Death Egg successfully launched.
Any examples of Dr. Eggman's travel speed in the Modern Era?
There is one example. Sonic Lost World. When the Zeti broke free from Dr. Eggman's control, they turned his robots on him and Sonic & Tails. Tails got hit and Sonic grabbed him to make run to retreat. Eggman follows behind, running alongside him and keeping up.
I don't count this however, since it clearly showed Sonic decelerated to chat with Tails.
Edit, Adventure Era:
I have found a Travel Speed scaling for Eggman but its doesn't come from Sonic and takes place during the Adventure Era.
If approve, would Modern Eggman scale to Modern Sonic's base travel speed?
No, this is only for Eggman to scale to Classic Sonic's speed. Modern's base speed has grown so fast, that even in the Meta Era, Dr. Eggman has been relying on other energies or fighting Sonic in a straight line like a fighter jet, to keep up.
Dr. Eggman has lacked a fight with Sonic's speed without a crutch for a very long time now, evidence Sonic's growing Speed and AP is giving Eggman trouble to keep up.
So, yeah, CRT for requesting Dr. Eggman's travel speed to scale to Classic Sonic's.
So, I'm scaling Sonic's Base speed to Eggman and give the Super Peel Out further justification of being faster than Sonic's Base Speed
The scaling for Dr. Eggman's only known running speed during the Classic Era:
Ending of Sonic 1
Ending of Sonic 2
Ending of Sonic & Knuckles or Sonic 3 & Knuckles
What really convinced me:
Of the 4 Mainline (CD is mainline-ish), Dr. Eggman consistently runs ahead of Sonic the Hedgehog with Sonic only able to keep up. Its well-known that many believe (including myself) this can only be considered Game Mechanics or Classic Sonic's "Casual Speed" that allowed Dr. Eggman to appear just as fast as Classic Sonic's base speed. There are reasons for the common belief, like Eggman is a human and Sonic is supposed to be the fastest guy around.
While Dr. Eggman being human really doesn't mean anything in fiction when it comes to how strong or fast a character is, Sonic the Hedgehog is known to be the fastest thing around. So its not plausible for Dr. Eggman run as fast as Sonic.
I believed that Dr. Eggman couldn't scale either. But I have changed my mind on it.
1.
Dr. Eggman does already scale to Sonic's base speed, due to being the final boss of every classic level and future boss fights in the Modern era. A famous example in the Modern era is the Opening of Unleashed, as Dr. Eggman is operating a Mech that is controlled by his own movements. Almost intercepting Sonic's Homming Attack and missing by a hair, and grabbing Sonic. Sonic wasn't using his Boost during his fight with Dr. Eggman.
2.
Ending of Sonic CD
Now this ending is what really convinced me Dr. Eggman's apparent speed is more than Game Mechanics. Sonic isn't able to pass Dr. Eggman in Sonic 1, 2 and 3 & Knuckles but is able to past Dr. Eggman in Sonic CD. Out of the 4 Classic games, Sonic CD is the only one Sonic has access to the Super Peel Out, which is a known Stat increase higher than Sonic's base speed. With the Super Peel Out, Sonic is able to outrun and surpass Dr. Eggman.
Now, the discussion of Eggman's speed came from Sonic 2, as Gamers reaching the ending and using the spindash reach top speed in order to catch Dr. Eggman. The issue with that is, the Spindash is not a stat booster like the Super Peel Out. It allows Sonic to reach top speed from a standstill. If Eggman already scales to Sonic's top speed without any speed amps, then the Spin Dash doesn't let Sonic catch him.
Spin Dash
The Spin Dash (スピンダッシュ, Supin Dasshu?) is a move that appears in the Sonic the Hedgehog series. It is a variant of the Spin Attack where the user blasts forward with a revved-up Spin Attack from a stationary position. It is also one of Sonic's signature techniques. Since its introduction, the...
sonic.fandom.com
Why this works for me, narratively, the Super Peel Out keeps Sonic being the fastest guy around, while keeping Eggman scaling to his base speed in Boss fights and these Classic game endings making sense.
Is Dr. Eggman a Human?
Yes.
Shouldn't he scale to other humans?
Not really. For one, humans as a species don't have many feats or justifications in the Games for Eggman to scale to them and vice versa, other than "human". There are times when other humans have shown to scale to Sonic and Co., at least in reaction and combat speed.
B-3x Hot Shot
R-1/A Flying Dog
F-6t Big Foot
Blue Falcon
andHeavy Dog
All operated by humans that have directly fought Rouge, Sonic, and notably Shadow, like any other Boss.G.U.N. robots
sonic.fandom.com
Dr. Eggman himself has so much scaling to Sonic and Co.'s base speed in Reaction and Combat Speed, who most of the cast treats Dr. Eggman seriously, thats it's unquestionable Eggman scales without looking at other humans.
Classic Sonic using "Casual Speed"
So, I know why this idea of Sonic having a casual speed during the Classic Games came to be. Cause he was chasing Eggman and didn't catch up. I mean, an explanation had to be created in the face of Game Mechanics for the story to make sense with Sonic's narrative to be the fastest guy around. But Sonic not trying to catch up to Eggman does run counter to the story of the Classic games.
Before going into that, some believe Classic Sonic shares the same personality as Modern Sonic and both view Dr. Eggman the same way. Yes, in Modern times, Sonic still takes Eggman seriously but he isn't urgent about it. But in Sonic Generations, before Classic meets Modern and realize he is standing next to himself, in comparison, dashes immediately towards Classic Eggman when he realize Classic Eggman is up to something.
Another thing people also believe, Classic Sonic had shown annoyance to Dr. Eggman, instead of seeing him as a serious threat. They imply since Sonic showed annoyance to Eggman, he wouldn't have ran after Dr. Eggman seriously.
But, the only time Sega showed Classic Sonic being annoyed by something, it was a comment by Amy Rose.
The story of the Classic Games, as the games went on, had Dr. Eggman prove more and more as a character to be stop. Sonic 2's no rings boss fight against Mecha Sonic, only to follow it up without rings against the Death Egg Robot. The final levels of Sonic 3 & Knuckles called for Sonic to take everything more serious than before, as he spent Sonic 3 to prevent the Death Egg from being launched, only for Eggman to succeed and launch it anyway in Sonic & Knuckles, but this time, Dr. Eggman had the Master Emerald too, the bigger emerald than the Emeralds that allow him to go Super Sonic.
With Sonic's efforts in Sonic 3, Sonic wouldn't have taken the situation in & Knuckles easy going, especially after the Death Egg successfully launched.
Any examples of Dr. Eggman's travel speed in the Modern Era?
There is one example. Sonic Lost World. When the Zeti broke free from Dr. Eggman's control, they turned his robots on him and Sonic & Tails. Tails got hit and Sonic grabbed him to make run to retreat. Eggman follows behind, running alongside him and keeping up.
I don't count this however, since it clearly showed Sonic decelerated to chat with Tails.
Edit, Adventure Era:
I have found a Travel Speed scaling for Eggman but its doesn't come from Sonic and takes place during the Adventure Era.
If approve, would Modern Eggman scale to Modern Sonic's base travel speed?
No, this is only for Eggman to scale to Classic Sonic's speed. Modern's base speed has grown so fast, that even in the Meta Era, Dr. Eggman has been relying on other energies or fighting Sonic in a straight line like a fighter jet, to keep up.
- Sonic Colors, Eggman used the Wisps energy to fight Sonic.
- Sonic Generations, Eggman used the Time Eater to fight Sonic/Super Sonic. Even in Generations, Eggman used the Egg Dragoon to fight Modern Sonic, a machine powered by Dark Gaia energy.
- Sonic Lost World, Eggman aborbed the Planet's Energy to fight Sonic.
- Sonic Forces, Eggman used the Phantom Ruby to fight Sonic.
Dr. Eggman has lacked a fight with Sonic's speed without a crutch for a very long time now, evidence Sonic's growing Speed and AP is giving Eggman trouble to keep up.
So, yeah, CRT for requesting Dr. Eggman's travel speed to scale to Classic Sonic's.
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