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It's sort of important, since that's all what High 1-B and higher is based on.don't understand what you just said.
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It's sort of important, since that's all what High 1-B and higher is based on.don't understand what you just said.
I still have no idea what you're asking me right now.It's sort of important, since that's all what High 1-B and higher is based on.
Dimensions work through embedding and infintesimalizing structures in LDG which is valid.You need to prove that the higher spaces quantify for Aleph-2 and beyond. Nothing until the end really gets there.
Adding more infinites doesn't move them to higher Tier 1 positions. You need to prove higher layers of stacked infinites and the gap between it.We also know these Universes range from 2-D to Infinite DImensions as the Outer Dimensions are stated to embed Infinite Dimensional Universes which would be an infinite number of steps above the Endless Space-Time. 1-A+
I don't understand the logic you are following here.Adding more infinites doesn't move them to higher Tier 1 positions. You need to prove higher layers of stacked infinites and the gap between it.
It's why I don't see 1-A+ being reached until until end and why I'm not seeing High 1-A at all.
Well to quote thisI don't understand the logic you are following here.
This wouldn't be 1-A+, just 1-A. It imbedding a Low 1-A structure in the same fashion it does the lower stuff would just be Aleph-2 assuming the gap between them is greater than the gap between the Aleph-1 space and the Aleph-0 space. Since an Aleph-2 space can contain an uncountably infinite number of Aleph-1 spaces. To get 1-A+ you'd need to show evidence of constant levels of higher Alephs with Alephs-3 and beyond. Which I'm just not seeing until the final levels and I'm not really seeing High 1-A rather than just some infinite level of Aleph vs a Large Cardinal.We also know these Universes range from 2-D to Infinite DImensions as the Outer Dimensions are stated to embed Infinite Dimensional Universes which would be an infinite number of steps above the Endless Space-Time. 1-A+
But that's what I said.This wouldn't be 1-A+, just 1-A. It imbedding a Low 1-A structure in the same fashion it does the lower stuff would just be Aleph-2 assuming the gap between them is greater than the gap between the Aleph-1 space and the Aleph-0 space. Since an Aleph-2 space can contain an uncountably infinite number of Aleph-1 spaces. To get 1-A+ you'd need to show evidence of constant levels of higher Alephs with Alephs-3 and beyond. Which I'm just not seeing until the final levels and I'm not really seeing High 1-A rather than just some infinite level of Aleph vs a Large Cardinal.
Zaratthustra's comment that it was machine translated is incredibly concerning. We shouldn't allow verses like that on the wiki; only ones with human translation, and even then, important passages should be retranslated by someone on the site, just in case.
I personally agree with this.I don't think just the potential for verification should be enough. Even if every part of it that was used was verified, there wouldn't be a decent-quality translation to be able to check for broader context from.
Appreciate the sentiment, but most of the Cosmology and our conversation is regarding the sequel which Nyoi-Bo Studio has not gotten to translate yet. Thank you all the same though.@ActuallySpaceMan I have found a version of this novel that is being translated by a certain translator team named Nyoi-Bo Studio. Which also WebNovel if you know the website are using legal translations which is from the same group, if novels marked as original are as shown here and is a translation is very likely illegally translated. Any official translations (not originals) are all legal. I hope it will help.
Not precisely. You would need to prove that they're beyond the lower Aleph by a higher Aleph. Simply being infinitely higher is not a qualifier afaik.Higher Dimensional Universe above that one would be Aleph 3, repeat to Aleph 4, Aleph 5, Aleph 6.
R > F differences already cover that. As long as the Higher Dimensional Universes don't exist inside the framework over the lower Aleph Universes, then that means their R > F is beyond just infinity.Not precisely. You would need to prove that they're beyond the lower Aleph by a higher Aleph. Simply being infinitely higher is not a qualifier afaik.
I'm not really reading it that wayR > F differences already cover that.
There's an infinite amount of cardinals between Aleph numbers.Even just the amount of infinite cardinals between the first inaccessible cardinal and aleph-2 (Which defines 1-A) is greater than cardinals such as aleph-0, aleph-1, aleph-2, aleph-3, etc., and even many aleph numbers whose index is an infinite ordinal.. More information on the concept is available on this page.
The Leviathan uses R > F differences to get to High 1-A, Akuto uses R > F to get to High 1-A, The Writer uses R > F to get to High 1-A. R > F is able to cover the distance way beyond Alephs, I don't know why it wouldn't here.I'm not really reading it that way
Not quite, otherwise seeing a Tier 2 multiverse as fiction would be 1-A. From what I've seen on discord, cases like that only apply if the system where the verse's 1-A comes from is entirely based on dimensions or other system that isn't R>F, which then the latter supersedes as a whole new axiom and gets High 1-A, but take it with a grain of salt.R > F is able to cover the distance way beyond Alephs, I don't know why it wouldn't here.
Well, I didn't mean R > F automatically gets you to 1-A, I just meant it's capable of crossing the distance between two alephs if it can cross the difference between 1-A+ and High 1-A.Not quite, otherwise seeing a Tier 2 multiverse as fiction would be 1-A. From what I've seen on discord, cases like that only apply if the system where the verse's 1-A comes from is entirely based on dimensions or other system that isn't R>F, which then the latter supersedes as a whole new axiom and gets High 1-A, but take it with a grain of salt.
If that was the case, seeing a Low 1-C structure (Aleph-1 universes) as fiction would be 1-A (Aleph-2 amount of anything), which we know it doesn't happen like that.Well, I didn't mean R > F automatically gets you to 1-A, I just meant it's capable of crossing the distance between two alephs if it can cross the difference between 1-A+ and High 1-A.
You're misunderstanding. Me and Qawsedf234 are disagreeing about this; Viewing a 1-A Structure in its entirety, not from being on top of it or being at the top of the Hierarchy, but in its entirety via a R > F diffrence should be another layer into 1-A. But he's saying that's not the case and it's just another infinity.If that was the case, seeing a Low 1-C structure (Aleph-1 universes) as fiction would be 1-A (Aleph-2 amount of anything), which we know it doesn't happen like that.
Well the thing about LDG has like Inner and Outer Dimensions.If the 1-A hierarchy itself is already based on R>F chains, then it should indeed be just higher into 1-A. If it isn't and the R>F is a whole new system compared to it, then it should be High 1-A. I believe that's how some of the verses you mentioned above got High 1-A/0 to begin with.
How to prove such a thing if the verse does not use very advanced mathematical notions?Not precisely. You would need to prove that they're beyond the lower Aleph by a higher Aleph. Simply being infinitely higher is not a qualifier afaik.
This is also my understanding, normally an R>F layer is equivalent to a jump of one aleph higher but maybe the standards have changed and we need very strict mathematical proof now. (?)R > F differences already cover that. As long as the Higher Dimensional Universes don't exist inside the framework over the lower Aleph Universes, then that means their R > F is beyond just infinity.
This reasoning is enough for so many other verses Idk why your saying I need to prove that it's a higher aleph.
That's what I'm trying to understand. I dont know when mathmatical evidence was required to jump alephs when R > F diffrences used to work just fine.This is also my understanding, normally an R>F layer is equivalent to a jump of one aleph higher but maybe the standards have changed and we need very strict mathematical proof now. (?)
I mean it's a jump of layers yes, but not alephs.This is also my understanding, normally an R>F layer is equivalent to a jump of one aleph higher but maybe the standards have changed and we need very strict mathematical proof now. (?)
Normally mathematical proofs are not necessary, otherwise many verses would be downgradedThat's what I'm trying to understand. I dont know when mathmatical evidence was required to jump alephs when R > F diffrences used to work just fine.
Indeed, I said "aleph" because here the layers 1-A are considered as alephsI mean it's a jump of layers yes, but not alephs.
(Alephs are treated a bit weirdly here but first and foremost it's kinda lowballed a little.)
Zaratthustra's comment that it was machine translated is incredibly concerning. We shouldn't allow verses like that on the wiki; only ones with human translation, and even then, important passages should be retranslated by someone on the site, just in case.
@Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @ZaratthustraI don't think just the potential for verification should be enough. Even if every part of it that was used was verified, there wouldn't be a decent-quality translation to be able to check for broader context from.
If the raw of every necessary part to the pages can be gotten then verified or translated by a wiki translator, then I guess his concerns can be resolved, but I really don’t see how that can be done as it is tedious.@Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Zaratthustra
What do you think about Agnaa's concerns above?
Also, what are the conclusions here so far?
I don't mind doing that work for all the raws regarding the Cosmology page since that's pretty important.If the raw of every necessary part to the pages can be gotten then verified or translated by a wiki translator, then I guess his concerns can be resolved, but I really don’t see how that can be done as it is tedious.
And I also share Agnaa’s Concerns, we don’t need another run down of what happened with Shinza due to bad and MLT translations.
But if the supporters are willing to put in the work and get the raws and someone to translate it, then I guess it can be fine. That’s the only solution I can think of.
Well if you can do that, that would be generally helpful with the accuracy of the pagesI don't mind doing that work for all the raws regarding the Cosmology page since that's pretty important.
Though I feel like when it comes to the abilities, it would be easier to have a translator check the accuracy and quality of MTL altogether.
It was already accepted to use such translations (in the past 2 threads about this subject) as long as the original text is present so there is not problem. Like it was said above, Low Dimensional Game is translated by an actual translator while the rest is not so if it follows the requirement of having both the original and the MTL/self-translated text then is okay.@Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Zaratthustra
What do you think about Agnaa's concerns above?
Also, what are the conclusions here so far?
So I just have to do it like Anos's page and stuff?It was already accepted to use such translations (in the past 2 threads about this subject) as long as the original text is present so there is not problem. Like it was said above, Low Dimensional Game is translated by an actual translator while the rest is not so if it follows the requirement of having both the original and the MTL/self-translated text then is okay.
One novel has been human translated while the other is MTL and supplementary. I think anyone concerned about the MTL should read Low Dimensional Game and then the MTL of Rebirth to find contradictions, errors, naming changes, etc, to judge it's overall quality. ActuallySpaceMan has done this. The 'broader context' is mostly in the prequel, the most OP has to do is post the raws for verification.
Unless it already happened, I think that there should be a staff thread on partial and full MTL novels before a decision is made in this thread. I say partial because I am pretty sure not every raw is verified by a human. People seem to use Deepl.
Okay. I suppose that it is probably fine then. So what are the conclusions here so far regarding what should be done in this revision then?It was already accepted to use such translations (in the past 2 threads about this subject) as long as the original text is present so there is not problem. Like it was said above, Low Dimensional Game is translated by an actual translator while the rest is not so if it follows the requirement of having both the original and the MTL/self-translated text then is okay.
I mean I already put weeks into making the pages and I need human translations to get the Cosmology stuff accepted right? Unless there is someone on the wiki who does translations like that for free I don't really see any other option.Okay, but wouldn't that be very expensive for you?