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Just admit you're wrong.Sure buddy, whatever you say...
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Just admit you're wrong.Sure buddy, whatever you say...
So what exactly is your point?Just admit you're wrong."Establish the power system." None of that is needed for tiering; adding like one scan would improve the argument so much.
If you have a problem with the crt debunk itJust admit you're wrong."Establish the power system." None of that is needed for tiering; adding like one scan would improve the argument so much.
I don't understand why there is no evidence that MCS cannot perceive beyond the fourth dimension.MCS is never stated to not be able to perceive it, humans are the one that are Stated to be be able to perceive it, not MCS.
Can you provide a statement that the Multiverse Computational System itself cannot perceive beyond four dimensions? The evidence you provided only says humans cannot perceive beyond four dimensions, while MCS not being able to detect Kuan's phase is treated as an exceptional anomaly and nothing here states anything about it being a dimensional limit.
Basically, a World is created by a God, a Higher-Dimensional Existence with power beyond comprehension to the beings of the lower reality. The God itself essentially perceives the World as a "Spot". The entirety of the lower World is turned into a singularity, where all of Space and Time become one, and there is no distinction between the two. However, is not a "Spot" in the sense of being a 0-Dimensional yet spatial thing, rather, it's something that has no space. While a God may materialize the spot for explanatory purposes like in the scans, the "Spot" is basically the Infinite World that is the God's Spirit Zone.
As for the Spirit Zone, it's basically the Mind and/or Mentality of a being, their Thoughts. A Mage utilizes Magic via their thoughts, and the Spirit Zone is the size of their mind. That is, when utilizing a Spirit Zone, the mage separates from their physical body, existing only as their Mind itself (the Spirit Zone), which in some cases, can make their mind one with the entirety of the World, Infinity. Naturally, a mage is Almighty and can do anything inside their mind as long as they know how to do it (Omniscience), and the mental power required is present (Omnipotence), meaning a Mage is basically has Omnipotent control over the world within their scope of Omniscience (Comprehension & Knowledge).
This means that, to a God (a Higher-Dimensional Entity), the lower World is basically their Mind (Fiction).
Higher Dimensional Beings (Gods) view the lower Worlds as a "Sub-Dimensional Space-Time", or, a Chess Board, with the God itself being incomprehensible/imperceptible from the perspective of the Chess Board. Even more so, the realm of a God has no concept of "Space" (and thus Time, as both are the same) and Distance even though the whole thing appears as a vast, blank canvas, it is simply Nothingness. Yet, for the God itself (and beings equal to the God in question), Space (and thus Time) exist.
As for the Immortal Function, it basically has two phases. One is where you reach the Immortal Function, and the other is where you "Release" or "Unlock" the Immortal Function.
The Immortal Function is basically a "Wall" (metaphor) that separates realities. When one reaches/hits the Wall, that's a point where they have become the World itself, they have become Infinite, the World finalized. However, the Immoral Function is such that when one reaches it, it forces the being's mind to fade into Nothingness (Void). A user of the Immortal Function basically "hits the wall, uses Magic, and comes back into normal" without breaking the wall and being reduced to true Nirvana (Nothingness). However, when one "releases/unlocks" the Immortal Function, that is a state where they are reach Nirvana, or, Infinity beyond Numbers (Including Sequential Numbers and Numerical Infinities), a state where Everything becomes Nothing. Reaching this state, however, normally makes one lose their sense of self, such that "you become not yourself anymore".
That is to say, to reach the higher Reality, one must lose all their qualities, to the point where they become Infinity and Reality becomes Nothing.
Hierarchy of Gods
A God may be perceived as the "Absolute and Sublime", but in Infinite Mage, the definition of a God is rather different. It's not some absolute being beyond all, it's simply a Higher-Dimensional Existence beyond the Lower Reality. In this sense, the hierarchy can be extended to Infinity, with a God creating a World, and someone inside that World acting as a God that created a World inside it, and so on, repeating infinitely, forming a Perfect Universe.
Additionally, from the novel, it is confirmed that this is not just a descending Hierarchy, but an ascending one too:
쿠안도 죽음을 넘어 고차원 벌크에 닿았기에 이제는 이해할 수 있었다.
"네. 어떤 것이 존재한다는 것은 오히려 괴상한 일이죠. 신이 우주를 창조했다면, 신은 누가 창조했을까요? 그 신을 창조한 신은? 결국 무한의 역설이에요. 아무도 없는 것은 지극히 당연한 겁니다."
~ Side Story, Chapter 33
Ig this would disprove my arguments, but would you agree with 2-A rating?To provide further evidence, the upper floor is a four-dimensional spacetime. It is not five-dimensional.
In other words, Miro did not create a five-dimensional spacetime.
"So, in addition to a specific space, a specific time must align?" "Exactly. Take the 333 cube as an example. When you move the cube atIt's a map that takes the form of three dimensions but actually guides you
to four-dimensional coordinates.
"The upper floor isn't limited to space, is it?"
Sein nodded.
Shirone's insight was impressive, but if he couldn't grasp this much, he
wouldn't qualify to join Gaold's project in the first place.
"Right. In three dimensions, Istas is just a warehouse made up of 89
buildings. But the upper floor exists in a higher dimension. That's why
the agents couldn't find it."
"So, in addition to a specific space, a specific time must align?"
"Exactly. Take the 333 cube as an example. When you move the cube at
coordinates 1.1.1 to coordinates 3.1.3, what changes is not just space but
also time. No matter how fast you turn it, it takes at least 0.1 seconds.
This is called spacetime. I devised a way to prevent anyone from
accessing Miro by hiding her spacetime at the origin of the cube."
coordinates 1.1.1 to coordinates 3.1.3, what changes is not just space but
also time. <- This sentence is the key.
Astral, do you know any knowledgeable staff that could rate this, and if it's not a bother can you tag them? I don't really know who to tag or reach out with...Well, checking the OP now, I can see why people find it lacking.
I'll just send the arguments that Ultima agreed to (last year). I wouldn't, however, count that as a vote since opinions can change overtime.
That being said, this is an argument for 1-A, not Low 1-C
I believe that comment from last year was made before I read that post, but in any case, it probably isn’t 1-A. That’s because the side story reveals that God cannot transcend space-time or dimensions.Well, checking the OP now, I can see why people find it lacking.
I'll just send the arguments that Ultima agreed to (last year). I wouldn't, however, count that as a vote since opinions can change overtime.
That being said, this is an argument for 1-A, not Low 1-C
Is this scan the evidence for 2-A that you're referring to?Ig this would disprove my arguments, but would you agree with 2-A rating?
Members cannot tag other members or staffAstral, do you know any knowledgeable staff that could rate this, and if it's not a bother can you tag them? I don't really know who to tag or reach out with...
Hmm, I haven't read the novel (and I probably forgot about/didn't see your post), could you send that again?I believe that comment from last year was made before I read that post, but in any case, it probably isn’t 1-A. That’s because the side story reveals that God cannot transcend space-time or dimensions.
Ohh okMembers cannot tag other members or staff
but you can ask Spaceman, Qawsedf, Raiki and Ultima on their msg walls
That would be the case but the verse specifically stated that space and time can't be separated, in therefore a single world/spot which contains 3 spatial dimensions would automatically mean that there's always a time axis making it 4d, another proof of these is that Miro specifically stated that even the world in which the farmers world which is a copy has space and time, which she used as a demonstration on how the world works.A spot is a three-dimensional space that has been compressed into one dimension. Since manipulating infinite three-dimensional space is classified as High 3-A rather than 2-A, I don't think that scan will be of any help.
Infinite 3-dimensional space + time = low 2-C.That would be the case but the verse specifically stated that space and time can't be separated, in therefore a single world/spot which contains 3 spatial dimensions would automatically mean that there's always a time axis making it 4d, another proof of these is that Miro specifically stated that even the world in which the farmers world which is a copy has space and time, which she used as a demonstration on how the world works.
Members cannot tag other members or staff
but you can ask Spaceman, Qawsedf, Raiki and Ultima on their msg walls
Hmm, I haven't read the novel (and I probably forgot about/didn't see your post), could you send that again?
Exactly. Space and time are essentially one in this verse, a 3d universe are 4d bcs time exist as long as space existI'm pretty sure Space and Time are one in this verse. Unless we're assuming the existence of eternally stopped worlds, if the "world" inside the dot contains moving things, it is ultimately a space time since any change in spatial positions of anything = Time, overall making the Space time continuum.
This is what I'm currently arguingSeeing that as a "dot" would normally be +1D (5D in this case), but since that "dot" Miro showed to Shiro is simply a materialization of her Spirit zone (her mind), it's a qualitative difference (because it implies that World is ultimately inside her mind and only exists as a perceivable dot to shirone when she materializes it).
Since the upper floor where Miro's Spirit Zone is located is described as the fourth dimension, the Spirit Zone is a dimension lower than the fifth dimension.I'm pretty sure Space and Time are one in this verse. Unless we're assuming the existence of eternally stopped worlds, if the "world" inside the dot contains moving things, it is ultimately a space time since any change in spatial positions of anything = Time, overall making the Space time continuum.
Seeing that as a "dot" would normally be +1D (5D in this case), but since that "dot" Miro showed to Shiro is simply a materialization of her Spirit zone (her mind), it's a qualitative difference (because it implies that World is ultimately inside her mind and only exists as a perceivable dot to shirone when she materializes it).
4th axis+time=5dSince the upper floor where Miro's Spirit Zone is located is described as the fourth dimension, the Spirit Zone is a dimension lower than the fifth dimension.
No. Since the “upper floor” consists of three-dimensional space plus time, it is four-dimensional.4th axis+time=5d
It's specifically stated that it leads them to the fourth dimension, meaning 4th axis+time=5d unless your saying Miro is existing inside the temporal axisNo. Since the “upper floor” consists of three-dimensional space plus time, it is four-dimensional.
I recall you saying in a previous comment that my argument could serve as a counterargument, so I’m not sure why this topic is suddenly coming up.It's specifically stated that it leads them to the fourth dimension, meaning 4th axis+time=5d unless your saying Miro is existing inside the temporal axis
I see. This does seem like a red flag.“God,”
Nane said.
“This is the main system of the Multiversal Computing Engine. From
here, we can sever your world from the Outer World—turning it into a
truly independent universe, free from all control.”
“How?”
“You already know.”
Immortal Function.
By hijacking the core system of the gods and isolating one universe,
independence would be achieved.
“Exactly. But there’s something more important. Look at the last page.
What the Outer World really wants is...”
Fermi flipped to the final page:
Guidelines for Independent Universe Management
1. All multiverses are based on the Public Empty System. Any
universe where humanity reaches a certain level of advancement is
designed to generate a new virtual reality.
2. Each universe is controlled by the Anke Ra Program, and
ultimately overseen by the multiversal computational engine called
‘God.’
3. If the Anke Ra Program is destroyed, the system restores itself by
applying the most optimal variable.
4. If connection with the Outer World is lost, the Anke Ra link
program activates to reopen the channel to the computational
‘God’ between the two worlds.
“Is that even possible? A phase undetectable even to the Multiverse
Computational System?”
It wasn’t even registered as a bug.
“What if it’s a higher dimension?”
Whether Outer World or multiverse, humans cannot perceive beyond
four dimensions.
The screen showed an obvious anomaly, but the multiversal computing system didn’t detect it.
No alarms. No error reports.
“Mr. Zad, how do we explain this? He just... moved. Time passed
normally. Space wasn’t distorted. This is a total contradiction!”
Zad pushed up his glasses. The information he had long sought through Kuan was now in front of him.
“Higher-dimensional bulk...”
In the side story, God is depicted as being unaware of the higher-dimensional bulk and as existing in a dimension lower than that of the higher-dimensional bulk.
Same as aboveSince the upper floor where Miro's Spirit Zone is located is described as the fourth dimension, the Spirit Zone is a dimension lower than the fifth dimension.
It's a map that takes the form of three dimensions but actually guides you
to four-dimensional coordinates.
"The upper floor isn't limited to space, is it?"
Sein nodded.
Shirone's insight was impressive, but if he couldn't grasp this much, he
wouldn't qualify to join Gaold's project in the first place.
"Right. In three dimensions, Istas is just a warehouse made up of 89
buildings. But the upper floor exists in a higher dimension. That's why
the agents couldn't find it."
"So, in addition to a specific space, a specific time must align?"
"Exactly. Take the 333 cube as an example. When you move the cube at
coordinates 1.1.1 to coordinates 3.1.3, what changes is not just space but
also time. No matter how fast you turn it, it takes at least 0.1 seconds.
This is called spacetime. I devised a way to prevent anyone from
accessing Miro by hiding her spacetime at the origin of the cube."
For 5d spatial axis yes but for 5d time axis noI recall you saying in a previous comment that my argument could serve as a counterargument, so I’m not sure why this topic is suddenly coming up.
Apart from a few added lines of dialogue, it's mostly the same.I see. This does seem like a red flag.
Curious, for the chapters between 80~90 (Miro arc), did the manhwa change anything from the novel?
Same as above
There’s never been any mention of a “four-dimensional space”; it’s been explained that time is added to a three-dimensional space, so I don’t understand why you keep bringing up this “five-dimensional time” concept.For 5d spatial axis yes but for 5d time axis no
Nvm, seems I'm just tweaking lolThere’s never been any mention of a “four-dimensional space”; it’s been explained that time is added to a three-dimensional space, so I don’t understand why you keep bringing up this “five-dimensional time” concept.
In any case, I’ve made my case in full. It seems like if we keep talking, we’ll just keep repeating the same points over and over, so unless a new scan emerges that might change my mind, I will continue to oppose “low 1-C.”
To begin with, I'm not the only one saying this is strange. Astral_Trinity439 is saying it's strange, too.
I’ll leave the decision regarding the tier to the staff.
My argument for 2-A isn't about her spacetime, it's that her spacetime contains an uncountably infinite other spacetime in which was compressed infinitely shown here...Infinite 3-dimensional space + time = low 2-C.
This page states the following:
In other words, the claim that 2-A holds true can only be proven if the number of timelines is infinite. Therefore, it seems that even that scandal does not serve as evidence for 2-A.It should be noted that timelines are assumed to be infinite in length,
That would be high 1-B, not 2-A. Assuming Miro's statement about the infinite space time matrix to be true (where each world has a point inside which there's an infinite world, inside which there's a point having an infinite world inside which.... Ad infinitum), the totality of the space-time matrix or "Perfect Universe" would be High1-B.My argument for 2-A isn't about her spacetime, it's that her spacetime contains an uncountably infinite other spacetime in which was compressed infinitely shown here...
Ngl, I was planning on using that argument but I was skeptical, so I just used the lower possible scale for miroThat would be high 1-B, not 2-A. Assuming Miro's statement about the infinite space time matrix to be true (where each world has a point inside which there's an infinite world, inside which there's a point having an infinite world inside which.... Ad infinitum), the totality of the space-time matrix or "Perfect Universe" would be High1-B.
And while the 1-A seems to have problems, this wouldn't be a problem since often more so than not, verses refer to Time as the 4th Dimension, even if it encompasses more than just 3 dimensions of space. Or 4th Dimension can also mean an entirely separate thing (an example being stuff from marvel, and how 4th Dimension and 5th and 6th dimension work there).
The problem is that characters with a 1-A rank must transcend dimensions, but the location where Miro is situated is bound to a specific dimension. This is revealed in the side story.That would be high 1-B, not 2-A. Assuming Miro's statement about the infinite space time matrix to be true (where each world has a point inside which there's an infinite world, inside which there's a point having an infinite world inside which.... Ad infinitum), the totality of the space-time matrix or "Perfect Universe" would be High1-B.
And while the 1-A seems to have problems, this wouldn't be a problem since often more so than not, verses refer to Time as the 4th Dimension, even if it encompasses more than just 3 dimensions of space. Or 4th Dimension can also mean an entirely separate thing (an example being stuff from marvel, and how 4th Dimension and 5th and 6th dimension work there).
Above, I'm talking about high 1-B, not 1+A xdThe problem is that characters with a 1-A rank must transcend dimensions, but the location where Miro is situated is bound to a specific dimension. This is revealed in the side story.
There is the thing with the dot being a "materialization" of what is actually someone's Spirit zone (mind). That brings the idea that said world is inside the God's mind.i dont understand where 1A comes from, H1B makes sense
I don't think H1-B would work because the universe they inhabit is 11d, so at best Miro's space would be 9d and below.That would be high 1-B, not 2-A. Assuming Miro's statement about the infinite space time matrix to be true (where each world has a point inside which there's an infinite world, inside which there's a point having an infinite world inside which.... Ad infinitum), the totality of the space-time matrix or "Perfect Universe" would be High1-B.
Aint this the home dimensions of their own universe, from their perspective?I don't think H1-B would work because the universe they inhabit is 11d, so at best Miro's space would be 9d and below.
From what I know, it's not 0d, more like 1d, idk why but the manhwa seems to over exaggerate things, but idk if this changes anything really, lmao.By the way, Shirone clearly says the dot is 0D but they are in 3 dimensions (3 extra axes compared to the dot). I wonder if each layer would thus be +3D or just +1D.
Shirone recalled the white space he had just been in.
"That‘s correct. That was a spot. It‘s not that there‘s no space; it‘s compressed
infinitely."
As she spoke, it made sense why he hadn‘t felt any distance. However, even if he was trapped in a one-dimensional space, his body was still three-dimensional. If he could measure the distance between his right and left arms, wouldn‘t space still exist?
"Oh, I see. A three-dimensional object exists within a one-dimensional space."
"Your insight is truly remarkable. Yes, that‘s the essence of space-time. No
matter how vast the world is, from a distance, it‘s merely a dot. Conversely, even the smallest dot, when looked into, contains an infinite worlds."