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Adding a Standard Tactics section to Mewtwo

DontTalkDT

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I was debating about Mewtwo's in-character tactics in a thread today, so I was inspired to look at all its battles and give it a Standard Tactics section. Hence I sat down and went through all the canon media I could find. Here are my findings.


Main Games​

As usual, the main games leave few hints about the Pokemons in character moves. At most one can look at its canonical moveset.
Those moves are: Swift, Recover, Safeguard, Psychic. Not sure if it has any other moves by default in some generation I missed (I'm just looking at a wiki for this part), but it gives an idea.


Anime​

Surprisingly, Mewtwo has a fairly consistent moveset in the anime.

Mewtwo Strikes Back (Evolution version)​

  • Gyarados vs. Mewtwo: Mewtwo uses Telekinesis to redirect Garados’ Hyperbeam back to it.
  • Pikachu vs. Mewtwo: Not really a battle, but Mewtwo attacks it with Telekinesis
  • Rhyhorn vs. Mewtwo: Rhyhorn charges at Mewtwo and is defeat via telekinesis
  • Charizard vs Mewtwo: Charizard uses flamethrower. Mewtwo defends via forcefield and extinguishes flames by telekinetically manipulating nearby water
  • Ash vs Mewtwo: Ash punches, Mewtwo defends via forcefield and counters with telekinesis
  • Mew vs Mewtwo: Mewtwo initiates by repeatedly attacking via spheres of energy. Continues to do so, while flying and chasing it. Mew attacks, Mewtwo defends via forcefields. Mewtwo continues attacking with energy spheres. Later they start physically clashing forcefields together. Their battle ends with energy beams.

Mewtwo Returns​

  • Mewtwo vs. Helicopter attacking and capturing its pokemon friends: Launches energy ball at it.
  • Rocket robots vs Mewtwo: Gets hit by first electricity attack, then destroys the robots via telekinesis.
  • Mewtwo after being revived: Teleports the entire place away from the opponents

Genesect Movie​

  • Mewtwo vs Shiny Genesect: Starts by dodging Genesects attacks via flight. ultimately has to block an attack via a forcefield and mega evolves. Dodges the next attack via teleport and then have a flight chase, ending in it blocking a beam via a forcefield. Later uses forcefield to shield a group of pokemon from the beams of the group of Genesects. Now going on the offence Mewtwo uses mainly energy balls to attack and dodges for defence. After getting caught by some thread it uses an omnidirectional shockwave to blow it away. After some more energy balls and barriers, Mewtwo finally uses telekinesis against shiny Genesect and flies into space together with it. Not for BFR, but to show it the world.
    • Mewtwo demonstrated the ability to enter Genesects mind early on but never attacks that way.

The battle of the badge (anime episode)​

  • Arkanine + Nidoking vs Mewtwo: Levitates both of them via telekinesis and defeats them.

Pokemon Journey Episode 46​

  • Mewtwo vs Ash's team + other dude: Mewtwo blocks their attacks with a forcefield and launches them away via telekinesis. It blocks the following attack with its barrier again, takes the following attack and then counters the next via Shadow Ball. The same thing happens to the next two attacks, with it launching two Shadow Balls at once. Then it repels the opponents with a tail strike. The battle ends with it blocking one last attack with a barrier and striking back with a giant Shadow Ball.


Manga​

We are also using the Pokemon Special manga as canon, I believe, so I took a look at those as well. The exception is the X&Y showing, as I couldn't find that.
Here as well Mewtwo has a rather consistent fighting style.
  • Chapter 34 + 35: Attacks via a Psywave-Twister. Blaine gets to it by going through the twister's center and gives it a devastating blow. Mewtwo is greatly weakened and attacks by launching a small object. Then it summons a spoon and fights physically with it. Its strategy is explained as follows: Against a group of enemies, it will use the Twister, against single enemy the spoon. Red manages to catch it via a Masterball.
  • Chapter 64: Mewtwo is seen training with Blaine, by deflecting projectiles with its spoon.
  • Chapter 79+80: Blaine fights Siegfried with Mewtwo. He starts by having it telekinetically obstruct a hyperbeam. The following supersonic is blocked by „Barrier“. Mewtwo floats the, up into the air and rams its opponent with the barrier. Mewtwo shields against the following attacks with its barrier again. Afterwards, Mewtwo disable the barrier in order to attack with the Psywave Twister. The physical attack of Aerodactyl is blocked with its spoon. What follows is physical combat. Blaine then makes Mewtwo form its spoon into attack with which it attacks Siegfried's Pokeballs. The fight ends with Mewtwo reaching a time limit after which it needs to return to its ball.
  • Chapter 285-295: Mewtwo forces its way through a swarm Incognito using its barrier first and then its Psywave-Twister. After Blue and Green get capture by tentacles, Mewtwo cuts them free with its spoon. Later Mewtwo gets caught in an armour and that way temporarily incapacitated. After freed, it uses its spoon to cut apart an attacking computer. Next Mewtwo fights Deoxys. It uses its spoon again for close combat. In this battle, Deoxys also uses its shapeshifting spoon as a projectile, for things similar to psychic beams. It consequently fires lots of such projectiles of psychic energy. Afterwards Mewtwo wins via one last beam.
  • X&Y Chapter 35-38: Mewtwo appears again and starts fighting with his spoon. Upon being confronted by multiple enemies it uses its Psywave-Twister. Having learned some new moves it then attacks with Psystrike, in the form of several energy projectiles. Mewtwo proceeds to Mega-Evolve into Mewtwo Y. Mewtwo proceeds with some more close combat. After getting hit by a surprise attack it evolves back into normal form. It shortly after evolves to Mewtwo X and proceeds to block an attack with its spoon.

Pokemon Origin​

I will take this as separate from the anime, because it's a separate timeline and Mewtwo fights different.
The only battle here is Red vs Mewtwo. The fight starts with Mewtwo tanking a blizzard and using Recover to fix the damage. It then takes out the opponent via shadow ball. Next comes in Charizard. Mewtwo blocks a fireblast with a barrier, likely safeguard, and attacks with swift. The following attack is blocked with a barrier again and Charizard is repelled with Psychic. Mewtwo tanks another fire attack and attacks via swift again. After tanking another attack it is caught.

Conclusion​

While game Mewtwo is hard to pin down tactic wise, like most Pokémon in the main games, Mewtwo has very defined, but different, Standard Tactics in Anime and Manga.
In the anime, Mewtwo will generally attack via telekinesis and energy balls (aura spheres or shadow balls). On rarer occasions, it will use Psystrike. It will generally defend by blocking attacks via telekinesis or using a forcefield. If it dodges it usually does so via flight, but on rarer occasions uses teleport. Every other technique it may possess sees no significant use in combat.
In the manga, it will use a Psywave-Twister as attack and defense against multiple opponents, while it fights in close combat with its spoon in one-on-one combat. Rarely it will attack with something like a beam or bullets of psychic power. It will usually use a barrier or its spoon to block attacks. Dodging is seen less. Recover is used if necessary and given enough time. Once again, other techniques than these see no significant use.
Pokémon Origin Mewtwo appears to use its canonical moveset and demonstrated a tendency not to dodge and sometimes not even defend.

After taking suggestions from the thread for further canons/timelines to include, I suggest this explanation:
Standard Tactics: Mewtwo will used different tactics in different canons/timelines.
A Mewtwo in the anime will generally open a battle using energy blasts, like Aura Sphere or Shadow Ball, or Psychic. On rare occasions it will also use a version of Psystrike, which explodes a forcefield that expands from its body on the opponents. If it is attacked it will defend itself via Psychic or use a forcefield. Mewtwo, particularly if Mega-Evolved, also dodges attacks. Usually it does so by flying, but on rarer occassions teleports.
Manga Mewtwo varies its tactic depending on whether it fights a group or a single opponent. Against a group it will lead with its Psywave-Twister for attack and defense. Against a single opponent it will fight in close combat, using it spoon as a weapon. It can switch between these techniques if it deems it necessary. On rarer occassions it will attack via beams or projectiles of psychic energy, such a Psystrike. For defense it will mainly use barriers or block with its spoon, but on rarer occassions also blocks via Psychic. In order to recover from its injuries it will use Recover if it finds the necessary time during battle.
In both cases most other techniques see no significant use mid-battle, although that could change if Mewtwo is given a good reason to use something else, considering its intelligence.
Pokémon Origin Mewtwo uses Swift and Psychic to attack, Safeguard as a barrier and Recovery for healing. This version of Mewtwo tends to not dodge attacks and something not even shield them, but instead just takes the damage.
For the games no Standard Tactic could be found, for lack of fights outside of those dominated by game mechanics. It is likely that its Standard Tactic would be centered around using the moves in its usual movesets.
In the main games this moveset is Swift, Recover, Safeguard and Psychic, with Pressure as passive ability.
In Pokémon Stadium it is Psychic, Rest, Thunderbolt and Blizzard or Amnesia.
The TCG features more moves, but the repeated ones are Psychic, Psybursts, and energy stacking and amplification.
In Pokken its movepool includes Psycho Cut, Hyper Beam, Teleport, Barrier, Confusion, Telekinesis, Focus Blast, Psystrike, Fire Punch, Ice Punch and Thunder Punch, as well as the Burst Attack Psydisaster.
 
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Doesn't Mewtwo's profile include Pokken? Don't think it adds much except elemental attacks and miracle eye but still.

Also I think the TCG is considered canon as well which adds a bit, for some reason. Mewtwo's cards do tend to have a somewhat consistent archtype and format so something can likely be gleamed from that.

Plus Dex Entries (doesn't really say much) as well as Psystrike/Energy Nuking is a common tactic.

There's also Mewtwo's recent appearance in the anime against Lucario and Cinderace, but he mostly just used physical strikes and finished off with a spirit bomb, he was holding back here (Though the majority of his fights were him not actually doing anything).

There's also the Mega Mewtwo Y episode, the Mewtwo Radio Drama, and a few other things.

by default in some generation I missed

Stadium Mewtwo is a boss fight who uses shit like blizzard and other such high powered gen 1 attacks.
 
Doesn't Mewtwo's profile include Pokken? Don't think it adds much except elemental attacks and miracle eye but still.

Also I think the TCG is considered canon as well which adds a bit, for some reason. Mewtwo's cards do tend to have a somewhat consistent archtype and format so something can likely be gleamed from that.

Plus Dex Entries (doesn't really say much) as well as Psystrike/Energy Nuking is a common tactic.

There's also Mewtwo's recent appearance in the anime against Lucario and Cinderace, but he mostly just used physical strikes and finished off with a spirit bomb, he was holding back here (Though the majority of his fights were him not actually doing anything).

There's also the Mega Mewtwo Y episode, the Mewtwo Radio Drama, and a few other things.



Stadium Mewtwo is a boss fight who uses shit like blizzard and other such high powered gen 1 attacks.
Probably missed some stuff. If you can show me the details I will add it in.

I think I covered the Lucario thing (sounds like episode 46). Psystrike is supposed to be a common tactic according to the Pokedex or why?

Although I wanna say that I mostly brought up the main games because they are the highest canon. The canonical movesets probably don't mean too much for standard tactics. I, for example, don't think that something would be its in-character move just because it is a move that is listed for it on a TCG card. It being listed on the card rather means that it is a move one can make it do, not necessarily something it does by itself.
 
Psystrike is supposed to be a common tactic according to the Pokedex or why?

Wasn't saying that, I was saying that his dex entries are also an indication of his behavior, and just added on psytrike being something he does as well.
Psytrike being Mewtwo's signature move (Though it's only available at nearly peak power, that isn't a issue given the profile is him at lv100).
Same sentence, albeit two different points. I assume the energy nuking is "Psyburst" going by the TCG.

I think I covered the Lucario thing

Probably, but you said Pikachu and Cinderace, so wasn't sure if you seen the whole fight or not.

Although I wanna say that I mostly brought up the main games because they are the highest canon. The canonical movesets probably don't mean too much for standard tactics. I, for example, don't think that something would be its in-character move just because it is a move that is listed for it on a TCG card.

For the TCG, it's why I made note of how Mewtwo throughout the years has had a very similar and consistent format and archtype, 90% of the cards play a certain way so it could be worth looking into given that seems to be how TCG Mewtwo fights.
And Stadium is canon.
 
Pretty sure Psyburst is also proto-Psystrike before Psystrike was a thing.
(In the same vain Mewtwo had Shadow Ball years before Shadow Ball became a thing in Gen 2, Psyburst eventually became what is now known as Psystrike).
Psyburst being the energy nuke judging by the TCG's naming conventions to be the attack that wiped out New Island and Giovanni's HQ.
 
For the TCG, it's why I made note of how Mewtwo throughout the years has had a very similar and consistent format and archtype, 90% of the cards play a certain way so it could be worth looking into given that seems to be how TCG Mewtwo fights.
I'm not convinced. While one could take that as them having a consistent moveset, I don't think it tells you how it would in-character use that moveset.

And Stadium is canon.
Ok. I'm not too familiar with that game. Is Mewtwo fighting with a trainer there or alone?
From a glance that would be Psychic, Blizzard, Rest and Thunderbolt or Amnesia, yes? I guess one could write that down, although I wonder if the KI in that game follows a specific tactic with those moves?
 
I'm not convinced. While one could take that as them having a consistent moveset, I don't think it tells you how it would in-character use that moveset.

I mean, does it matter? We treat it as canon, so untill that changes (which it very well may), it's worth listing. And given he has a consistent strategy in the TCG and has repeated and common moves across all cards (Which mind you, isn't that common, Mewtwo is an outlier among the TCG in which he often plays the exact same way with like only one or two times he differed, of like the 30-40 cards).
It's still mostly psychic, psybursts, and energy stacking and amplification, so already not to far off what he does in things like the anime (with a few cards even being the anime Mewtwo in particular in card form, about 5-6 iirc). Either way, if we're listing what Mewtwo does in the various canons we use on the profile, we can't just ignore one such canon, besides as said, it isn't even that different from what we already know of him.

Is Mewtwo fighting with a trainer there or alone?

Alone, he's basically the Super Boss of the game. Hot off the heels of Mewtwo Strikes Back, he basically rolls up and challenges your ass after you become champ. So yeah, those moves would likely be considered part of the "game" canon Mewtwo given the direct connectivity and back and forth between RBG.
 
Chapter 35 (Yveltal Steals) to Chapter 38 (Xerneas Gives).
Unfortunately it may be a tad hard to find those, the usual site doesn't have XY and ******** is down for a week or two due to hack attacks and restructuring.

This makes sense.

Edit: Psystrike is Mewtwo's signature move. Though it only uses it rarely in its B&W and Manga incarnations (Mewtwo appeared in the XY Chapter).
To be fair, that's almost every single time Mewtwo appeared since the move was created. Given Psystrike as we know it came to be in BW1.
 
Mewtwo in the Radio Drama uses Recover after being shot.
Also he uses Hyper Beam and Disable while under Giovanni's command while "training". And later again against a whole forest of millions of Pokemon.
His moveset in the radio drama seems to be Confusion, Disable, Swift and Psychic, Recover, as well as HyperBeam once and basic generic energy explosions.
(Fuji earlier describes Mewtwo's Disable, Confusion, Psychic as beyond compare among psychic types, obviously, but just making note of it).

Though a chunk of this is under Giovanni's commands, this Mewtwo is also basically the same one from the first movie (The dramas played in anticipation of the movie's theatrical debut, was originally meant to serve to the movie as a prequel), so I'd assume he's smart enough to make use of what he has when he needs it.
 
Chapter 35 (Yveltal Steals) to Chapter 38 (Xerneas Gives).
Added it.
I mean, does it matter? We treat it as canon, so untill that changes (which it very well may), it's worth listing. And given he has a consistent strategy in the TCG and has repeated and common moves across all cards (Which mind you, isn't that common, Mewtwo is an outlier among the TCG in which he often plays the exact same way with like only one or two times he differed, of like the 30-40 cards).
It's still mostly psychic, psybursts, and energy stacking and amplification, so already not to far off what he does in things like the anime (with a few cards even being the anime Mewtwo in particular in card form, about 5-6 iirc). Either way, if we're listing what Mewtwo does in the various canons we use on the profile, we can't just ignore one such canon, besides as said, it isn't even that different from what we already know of him.
I guess I will list that, but with some restraint. It makes a lot of difference whether someone has just a certain moveset or a certain strategy, which I will mention.

Alone, he's basically the Super Boss of the game. Hot off the heels of Mewtwo Strikes Back, he basically rolls up and challenges your ass after you become champ. So yeah, those moves would likely be considered part of the "game" canon Mewtwo given the direct connectivity and back and forth between RBG.
Game canon has another movepool, though. So they should in terms of tactic be separate, as far as we take movepools as any indicator of tactic.

Mewtwo in the Radio Drama uses Recover after being shot.
Also he uses Hyper Beam and Disable while under Giovanni's command while "training". And later again against a whole forest of millions of Pokemon.
His moveset in the radio drama seems to be Confusion, Disable, Swift and Psychic, Recover, as well as HyperBeam once and basic generic energy explosions.
(Fuji earlier describes Mewtwo's Disable, Confusion, Psychic as beyond compare among psychic types, obviously, but just making note of it).

Though a chunk of this is under Giovanni's commands, this Mewtwo is also basically the same one from the first movie (The dramas played in anticipation of the movie's theatrical debut, was originally meant to serve to the movie as a prequel), so I'd assume he's smart enough to make use of what he has when he needs it.
Don't agree with that. A Standard Tactic is one thing, intelligence another. While I agree that Mewtwo is intelligent enough to vary its moves when necessary, what it does under Giovanni's command doesn't reflect its own preferences. What this reflects is that Standard Tactic of Giovanni and should hence go on his profile, not Mewtwo's.
 
Mewtwo also used return against Mechamew2 to give it a mind. In the first pinball game they seems to surround themself with shadow balls. Also I feel mewtwo's passive fear hax should be mentioned and in pokemon go mewtwo wears the armor from the first movie sometimes for extra defense.
 
I think that pretty much most of this is taken out of context since Mewtwo was clearly holding back at most of these fights tbh.
 
I think that pretty much most of this is taken out of context since Mewtwo was clearly holding back at most of these fights tbh.
How can this be out of context? These are literally all battles it was in, in the anime and manga. You can't claim all battles it was ever in don't reflect its standard tactic.

Mewtwo also used return against Mechamew2 to give it a mind. In the first pinball game they seems to surround themself with shadow balls. Also I feel mewtwo's passive fear hax should be mentioned and in pokemon go mewtwo wears the armor from the first movie sometimes for extra defense.
You mean pressure? In the anime and manga it kinda doesn't use that passive ability, so it would be weird to mention it for that. For the game canon, I will add it.

Also, Machamew2 from Pokémon life? Now that's another weird canon to go in and I know nothing about that. Can you summarize how it was demonstrated to fight in that?
 
Basically as soon as it realize that the robot out classed it, Mewtwo used return to give it a mind and kindness which led to the robot blowing itself up with self destruct to kill Giovanni(this fail somehow)
 
Basically as soon as it realize that the robot out classed it, Mewtwo used return to give it a mind and kindness which led to the robot blowing itself up with self destruct to kill Giovanni(this fail somehow)
That's a very weird use of Return, considering that the ability shouldn't even do that. But this sounds like it fought the robot a bit before that. How did it fight it at the beginning?
 
Pretty sure that stage play is non-canon with not even a statement of being a different interpretation or what-if.
 
I added a mention of its main game and Stadium movepools. I also added the common TCG moveset that @Chariot190 mentioned.
Aside from the Pokémon life version and the Radio Drama, is there anything not yet added that should be added?
 
I mean, if we don't include it in the composite it's out. The Radio Drama is out for being based of Giovanni's Tactics. In that case I think this is complete now? Since people have widely agreed (at least with the manga, anime + origins part that was there from the beginning) I would apply it soon then.
 
I have added it for now, but I will leave this open for now in case the edit notifies any supports who wish to add/correct something.
 
Game canon has another movepool, though. So they should in terms of tactic be separate, as far as we take movepools as any indicator of tactic.

Not quite, there's always the very real fact that he could have changed up his moveset, which, seems to be the case. Given a standalone Mewtwo, seemingly apart of the mainline game canon, uses moves like Blizzard and Amnesia (The atter is used quite commonly by wild Mewtwo). Besides, game canon has many movesets besides the FRLG one, there tends to be some basic overlap between them but there's like half a dozen, as you'll see below.

Don't agree with that. A Standard Tactic is one thing, intelligence another. While I agree that Mewtwo is intelligent enough to vary its moves when necessary, what it does under Giovanni's command doesn't reflect its own preferences. What this reflects is that Standard Tactic of Giovanni and should hence go on his profile, not Mewtwo's.

Unfortunately I think I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one due to the context behind Mewtwo working under Giovanni for that time.
For the majority of that Mewtwo was under the impression he was training and honing his power and skill to fight.
Giovanni may have told him what to use in some cases, but that doesn't automatically mean Mewtwo won't suddenly use them the moment he left Giovanni given the whole original premise was for Mewtwo to train and learn how to control his powers so he doesn't destroy itself and the world (I mean, Giovanni lied, but the intention for Mewtwo himself to hone his skill was still there and he did so willingly).

This is tantamount to saying just because a boxer was given mentorship means that after the training, the boxer won't do said things his coach trained him to do while the boxer in question trained for the sole purpose of learning how to implement said techniques in a real fight.
I personally think you're being way to restrictive in this case, when basically all that happened was Mewtwo was being coached on how to fight and he willingly went along with it so he could hone himself, whatever he learned and trained while there is now apart of that Mewtwo's standard kit, and given everything there is moves we see him afterwards anyway...

Another thing to note, Mewtwo is shown to use disable a few times in the Radio Drama (A part of his base moveset, used while under Giovanni's tutelage multiple times, used when subduing a forest of millions, etc), but later on that very same Mewtwo used it again on his clones and the natural Pokemon, presumably to prove who's the best without any gimmicks or niche bullshit, which is something Mewtwo at the time cared greatly about. (The movie is canon to the Radio Drama, it's the original prequel to the movie).
That's probably an important thing to note for an early Mewtwo who's whole aim is to be the strongest through raw power, given that scene reflected that belief.
As such, Disable should most certainly be considered an ability that Strike's Back Mewtwo will use, given he, well, uses it often enough in order to either avoid nuisances or to force a battle of raw power.
Thus, the only move used under Giovanni's command that he isn't really shown using on his own time unless explicitly told to was Hyper Beam (Ignoring Pokken Key).


Aside from the Pokémon life version and the Radio Drama, is there anything not yet added that should be added?

Pokken, Mewtwo even has a Pokken Key on the profile.
He uses Fire/Thunder/Ice Punch (Usually in tandem, they string together), basic telekinetic attacks, Telekinesis (The move), Confusion, Focus Blast, Teleport, Flamethrower, Hyperbeam, Drain Punch, Psywave, Psycho Cut, Psystrike, as well as attacks that aren't given a name but I can only assume to be Fire Spin, Psychic, Icicle Spear, Thunder, CQC attacks and some sort of minor life drain (Probably Recover given Shadow Mewtwo's variant is listed as that) and Psydisaster as a finisher.

As Shadow Mewtwo he uses Fire, Ice and Lightning elemental attacks out the ass, including makeshift blades made out of them in a style not unlike someone like Vegito, various forms of Psywave, Shadow Ball, Miracle Eye, Reflect, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Thunder, Psystrike, Teleport, Zen Headbutt, Recover, CQC attacks and Dark Nova as a finisher.
He also likes to fight in his pocket realm, drawing in his opponents to fight him there instead of elsewhere.

Mewtwo in HGSS uses guard Swap, Power Swap, Psycho Cut and Amnesia (Wild moveset in Cerulean Cave).

Mewtwo has Recover, Barrier, Aura Sphere, Psychic in XY (Wild, Pokemon Village).

Swift, Psycho Cut, Recover, Psychic in USUM.

Barrier, Psychic, Recover, Swift in RGBY.

Seemingly a stat amp upon entering a fight, Psychic, Recover, Amnesia and Swift in LGPE.

There's likely more but there's that for now.
 
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Not quite, there's always the very real fact that he could have changed up his moveset, which, seems to be the case. Given a standalone Mewtwo, seemingly apart of the mainline game canon, uses moves like Blizzard and Amnesia (The atter is used quite commonly by wild Mewtwo). Besides, game canon has many movesets besides the FRLG one, there tends to be some basic overlap between them but there's like half a dozen, as you'll see below.
If we take the movepool to have any indication to tactic, then we have to also assume that a change in movepool reflects a change in tactic. And different tactics used at different points in time would be mentioned separately.
So you can't have all movepools together be an indication for the tactic at any one specific point in time.


Unfortunately I think I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one due to the context behind Mewtwo working under Giovanni for that time.
For the majority of that Mewtwo was under the impression he was training and honing his power and skill to fight.
Giovanni may have told him what to use in some cases, but that doesn't automatically mean Mewtwo won't suddenly use them the moment he left Giovanni given the whole original premise was for Mewtwo to train and learn how to control his powers so he doesn't destroy itself and the world (I mean, Giovanni lied, but the intention for Mewtwo himself to hone his skill was still there and he did so willingly).

This is tantamount to saying just because a boxer was given mentorship means that after the training, the boxer won't do said things his coach trained him to do while the boxer in question trained for the sole purpose of learning how to implement said techniques in a real fight.
I personally think you're being way to restrictive in this case, when basically all that happened was Mewtwo was being coached on how to fight and he willingly went along with it so he could hone himself, whatever he learned and trained while there is now apart of that Mewtwo's standard kit, and given everything there is moves we see him afterwards anyway...

Another thing to note, Mewtwo is shown to use disable a few times in the Radio Drama (A part of his base moveset, used while under Giovanni's tutelage multiple times, used when subduing a forest of millions, etc), but later on that very same Mewtwo used it again on his clones and the natural Pokemon, presumably to prove who's the best without any gimmicks or niche bullshit, which is something Mewtwo at the time cared greatly about. (The movie is canon to the Radio Drama, it's the original prequel to the movie).
That's probably an important thing to note for an early Mewtwo who's whole aim is to be the strongest through raw power, given that scene reflected that belief.
As such, Disable should most certainly be considered an ability that Strike's Back Mewtwo will use, given he, well, uses it often enough in order to either avoid nuisances or to force a battle of raw power.
Thus, the only move used under Giovanni's command that he isn't really shown using on his own time unless explicitly told to was Hyper Beam (Ignoring Pokken Key).
If you wish to relate this to the movies, the movies would contradict it using things Giovanni made it use, if they were in any way different from what it consistently uses in the two movies.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Giovanni wasn't exactly coaching it in battle strategy. Trainers in Pokémon teach their Pokémon moves or ways to use the move, but basically never strategy. That's the entire point of there being trainers: They decide the strategy for the Pokémon, so that the Pokémon doesn't make decisions.
Also, Mewtwo is an intelligent being that certainly has its own opinion on what is the best way to use its powers. Even if it was taught some strategy by Giovanni, it would most likely afterwards have decided by itself which way feels best for it to fight.

Now, if I understood the second passage correctly Mewtwo is also shown using its power by itself in the Radio Drama? If there are such fights it would be better to determine its strategy at that point by those showings.

Pokken, Mewtwo even has a Pokken Key on the profile.
He uses Fire/Thunder/Ice Punch (Usually in tandem, they string together), basic telekinetic attacks, Telekinesis (The move), Confusion, Focus Blast, Teleport, Flamethrower, Hyperbeam, Drain Punch, Psywave, Psycho Cut, Psystrike, as well as attacks that aren't given a name but I can only assume to be Fire Spin, Psychic, Icicle Spear, Thunder, CQC attacks and some sort of minor life drain (Probably Recover given Shadow Mewtwo's variant is listed as that) and Psydisaster as a finisher.

As Shadow Mewtwo he uses Fire, Ice and Lightning elemental attacks out the ass, including makeshift blades made out of them in a style not unlike someone like Vegito, various forms of Psywave, Shadow Ball, Miracle Eye, Reflect, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Thunder, Psystrike, Teleport, Zen Headbutt, Recover, CQC attacks and Dark Nova as a finisher.
He also likes to fight in his pocket realm, drawing in his opponents to fight him there instead of elsewhere.

Mewtwo in HGSS uses guard Swap, Power Swap, Psycho Cut and Amnesia (Wild moveset in Cerulean Cave).

Mewtwo has Recover, Barrier, Aura Sphere, Psychic in XY (Wild, Pokemon Village).

Swift, Psycho Cut, Recover, Psychic in USUM.

Barrier, Psychic, Recover, Swift in RGBY.

Seemingly a stat amp upon entering a fight, Psychic, Recover, Amnesia and Swift in LGPE.

There's likely more but there's that for now.
Well, I missed most of those. Do you have some website where those moves are listed? I could mention all the movepools by hand, but for the sake of looks it might be better if I just link to one or a few pages that lists all the movepools.
 
If you wish to relate this to the movies, the movies would contradict it using things Giovanni made it use, if they were in any way different from what it consistently uses in the two movies.

Pretty sure I already explained this above, the Radio Drama is a prequel to the movie, released periodically in the upcoming weeks to the movie's original theatrical debut in Japan.
The Mewtwo in that Radio Drama is the same Mewtwo in the movie, but the Mewtwo in the movie isn't the Mewtwo in the Radio Drama. The Radio Drama was made while the movie was still being created, as such, it differed slightly in some places but the point remains that the main events of the movie, specifically everything after the point of Mewtwo returning to New Isle after pissing off and nuking Rocket HQ, eventually happened to this Mewtwo in question. The events of the movie post the "backstory" section is canon to the Radio Drama basically. Though I should also not some parts of the movie weren't featured in the original JPN theatrical release so some discrepancies came after the fact.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Giovanni wasn't exactly coaching it in battle strategy. Trainers in Pokémon teach their Pokémon moves or ways to use the move, but basically never strategy. That's the entire point of there being trainers: They decide the strategy for the Pokémon, so that the Pokémon doesn't make decisions.
Also, Mewtwo is an intelligent being that certainly has its own opinion on what is the best way to use its powers. Even if it was taught some strategy by Giovanni, it would most likely afterwards have decided by itself which way feels best for it to fight.

You're right, he was """""teaching""""" Mewtwo how to focus and use his powers, not strategy per say, yet, and Mewtwo went along with it despite Giovanni's blatant bullshitting because it still benefitted him and allowed him to gain better control of his abilities in a controlled environment and to further his goal of becoming the strongest and drawing the attention of Mew, proving his worth. But strategy has nothing to do with it, it's simply a matter of "would Mewtwo use this move in a normal situation", and the answer is yes, not only is it one of his basic moves.
And everything we see Mewtwo do, minus Hyperbeam, is things we also see him use on his own.
Psychic and Confusion speak for themselves, Recover he uses even before meeting Giovanni after the AI in the lab tried to kill him in which he heals in response, Disable he uses later on against the clones and the natural Pokemon to incite a duel of raw power, which is something he's trying to prove. Needless to say, I'm still not buying you foregoing everything in the Radio Drama because he just so happened to be listening to Giovanni at the time, I mean, he was listening to him for a reason after all.

Now, if I understood the second passage correctly Mewtwo is also shown using its power by itself in the Radio Drama? If there are such fights it would be better to determine its strategy at that point by those showings.

See above, Mewtwo uses Disable in the movie, the movie just so happens to be canon to the Drama for the most part.
The Drama ends as soon as Mewtwo nukes Giovanni and goes back to New Island, because as said, it was just supposed to be prequel backstory to the movie, but that doesn't mean the events after that part featured in the movie aren't canon to the Drama, hell, it was even released with the movie's OST and directly written by the head of the first few seasons of the Pokemon anime. Bulbapedia article on it. I think there's even some artwork done for it.

Well, I missed most of those. Do you have some website where those moves are listed? I could mention all the movepools by hand, but for the sake of looks it might be better if I just link to one or a few pages that lists all the movepools.

From memory, though probably wouldn't be difficult to find them online. The Cerulean Cave section on Bulbapedia or Pokearth probably has all movesets Mewtwo was seen with sorted by Generation, though two of those are from Ultra Space and Pokemon Village in Kalos.
And Pokken,
Shadow Mewtwo movelist. (Also missed Ice Beam).
Mewtwo movelist.



Also, don't know if we count this as canon but.
Energy blasts.
Shrapnel distraction into a grab into a pointblank Psychic beam.
Vs. Rhydon.
Electric Tale instances. (The whole energy nuking New Isle and Rocket HQ is in here as well, that seems to be a constant in all iterations of the backstory).
 
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Pretty sure I already explained this above, the Radio Drama is a prequel to the movie, released periodically in the upcoming weeks to the movie's original theatrical debut in Japan.
The Mewtwo in that Radio Drama is the same Mewtwo in the movie, but the Mewtwo in the movie isn't the Mewtwo in the Radio Drama. The Radio Drama was made while the movie was still being created, as such, it differed slightly in some places but the point remains that the main events of the movie, specifically everything after the point of Mewtwo returning to New Isle after pissing off and nuking Rocket HQ, eventually happened to this Mewtwo in question. The events of the movie post the "backstory" section is canon to the Radio Drama basically. Though I should also not some parts of the movie weren't featured in the original JPN theatrical release so some discrepancies came after the fact.
How does this in any way counter my argument?
For movie Mewtwo the Radio Drama strategy is irrelevant then, because it isn't canon for it.
And, if for Radio Drama Mewtwo the movie is canon, then the movie strategy contradicts the idea of Mewtwo using Giovanni's strategies.
In neither case do you get a Strike's Back Mewtwo which consistently uses disable.



You're right, he was """""teaching""""" Mewtwo how to focus and use his powers, not strategy per say, yet, and Mewtwo went along with it despite Giovanni's blatant bullshitting because it still benefitted him and allowed him to gain better control of his abilities in a controlled environment and to further his goal of becoming the strongest and drawing the attention of Mew, proving his worth. But strategy has nothing to do with it, it's simply a matter of "would Mewtwo use this move in a normal situation", and the answer is yes, not only is it one of his basic moves.
Thing is, the question isn't "would it use it in a normal situation". Mewtwo might use any of its vast pool of abilities in a normal situation. The questions are: Will it use the ability right at the beginning of the fight (against an unknown opponent)? Will it use this ability particularly often? Will it prefer the usage of other abilities over this one?
Take movie/anime Mewtwo for instance. It would use mind control in a normal situation, as we see from nurse Joy, but as we can tell from all its fights it prefers to use all kinds of other abilities in combat. If given the choice it neither leads with mind control nor will it use it if the situation seems like it could be solved via other abilities, like forcefields, telekinesis, energy balls or teleportation.


And everything we see Mewtwo do, minus Hyperbeam, is things we also see him use on his own.
Psychic and Confusion speak for themselves, Recover he uses even before meeting Giovanni after the AI in the lab tried to kill him in which he heals in response, Disable he uses later on against the clones and the natural Pokemon to incite a duel of raw power, which is something he's trying to prove. Needless to say, I'm still not buying you foregoing everything in the Radio Drama because he just so happened to be listening to Giovanni at the time, I mean, he was listening to him for a reason after all.
I doubt the reason it listened to Giovanni was learning battle strategy.

Anyway, assuming "Psychic and Confusion speak for themselves" means it has shown to use it without being commanded, I am fine with listing those, Recover and Disable as the moves Radio Drama Mewtwo has decided to use, given that it demonstrated making the decision to use them by itself. It doesn't sound like they are quite combat feats, but if this is the best we got it is worth mentioning.

See above, Mewtwo uses Disable in the movie, the movie just so happens to be canon to the Drama for the most part.
When does Mewtwo use Disable in the movie? That's news to me.

Hmmm.... this doesn't load for me.

From memory, though probably wouldn't be difficult to find them online. The Cerulean Cave section on Bulbapedia or Pokearth probably has all movesets Mewtwo was seen with sorted by Generation, though two of those are from Ultra Space and Pokemon Village in Kalos.
Actually, the only place I have found any of them online is in walkthroughs. Guess I might have to write them down by hand after all.

And Pokken,
Shadow Mewtwo movelist. (Also missed Ice Beam).
Will link this then.

Also, don't know if we count this as canon but.
Energy blasts.
Shrapnel distraction into a grab into a pointblank Psychic beam.
Vs. Rhydon.
Electric Tale instances. (The whole energy nuking New Isle and Rocket HQ is in here as well, that seems to be a constant in all iterations of the backstory).
Which manga is that from? Idk if we consider any but Pokemon Special as canon.
 
How does this in any way counter my argument?
Your argument literally boils down to ignore everything Mewtwo ever did if someone else just so happened to tell him to use it, while ignoring everything he did in that context simultaneously is done on his own time at a later date. It honestly isn't very hard to counter said argument when I don't think even you know the full details of what is or isn't used and when, given further down you say you weren't even aware Mewtwo had used Disable in the movie, which should be common knowledge for anyone who's watched it given he does it at a pretty big plot point. No offense but a lot of these disagreements seem to come from your lack of fully understanding the argument presented, only knowing bits and pieces of the full picture or, for some reason, confusing a standard tactic section with a "lead" section.

For movie Mewtwo the Radio Drama strategy is irrelevant then, because it isn't canon for it.

You're acting like the profile isn't several variants already. The Radio Drama is canon to the profile, it fits within our Wiki's criteria for what is and isn't canon, ergo, the profile needs to list that shit, otherwise. Unless you want to cherry pick what should and shouldn't be on the profile in which case his standard tactic is the least of our issues. But then again, I explicitly said above how the RD canonicity works. It's just an alternate prequel to the events of Strikes Back, technically speaking, it's the original events to Strikes Back. But it's still very much canon as a whole and the movie itself, explicitly everything after the intro sequence, is canon to the drama.

And, if for Radio Drama Mewtwo the movie is canon, then the movie strategy contradicts the idea of Mewtwo using Giovanni's strategies.

Excuse you but what?
Movie Mewtwo did everything we see him do in the RD, except Hyper Beam (Which I'm unsure is even hyperbeam given the translation), at multiple points throughout the movie.
We see him abuse telekinesis against foes in the RD and the latter half of the movie, you even shown various examples yourself. Psychic? Again, you did so yourself. Disable? In case you forgot but Mewtwo uses that to enforce a fair battle of raw power between his clones and the natural Pokemon, ergo, he did so as well.
I have no idea where you're getting the "Mewtwo suddenly didn't do anything he did while under Giovanni" because you're factually incorrect on this front and disable is one such thing we do see him use at a later time.
I don't quite understand why we're having this disagreement, it should be straightforward all things considered, maybe you're misunderstanding me and the details on what is and isn't canon?
If so it's pretty simple, it's basically a split canon, much like a reverse example of DBGT and Super. In that, the anime and the Radio Drama have two similar, albeit different opening sequences, the main events are identical, but just minor details like what Mewtwo used or some minor conversations differences are different, but both the anime and Radio drama eventually converge at the point Mewtwo goes back to New Isle, and from there the rest of the events play out the same way from what we know. Essentially, the movie has two opening sequences, the Drama and the one packed with the movie, so while the RD and Anime Op aren't canon to each other, the main events of Strikes Back is canon to both. Does this make sense to you? If not then I don't know what to tell you.



In neither case do you get a Strike's Back Mewtwo which consistently uses disable.

Back up there, because that isn't how it works.
You use the word consistently as if he has to show himself using it multiple times for you to count it, which isn't how this works.
All we need to know is when he'd use it in character, whether it happens once or five hundred times, the effect is the same if we know the circumstances in which he'd use it and he proceeds to use it in the presented situation because at that point, we know he would indeed use it in that situation, and luckily we do, he, in character, uses it when he wants to force a battle of nothing but raw power, no niche abilities or gimmicks allowed, he even says this himself when he uses it.
This only occurs once in the movie though because this situation only arises once, but the fact remains we know he has Disable and we know when he'd use it because we see him do it in said scenario, as such, in order to have an accurate Standard Tactic section, we must present this as an option and explain the scenario in which this would occur. And that in and of itself is simple.

"Strike's Back Mewtwo will use Disable in order to force the combatants into a fight with nothing but their own innate power with no special moves and abilities if Mewtwo feels the need to prove his power or superiority against his opponent".

See, easy.

Thing is, the question isn't "would it use it in a normal situation". Mewtwo might use any of its vast pool of abilities in a normal situation. The questions are: Will it use the ability right at the beginning of the fight (against an unknown opponent)? Will it use this ability particularly often? Will it prefer the usage of other abilities over this one?

You do know Standard Tactics isn't just leads right? What Mewtwo leads should be listed, sure but that isn't all that should be listed.
What he uses in various situations, what he'd do if the battle drags on, what he'd do if angered, what he'd do against someone who resists his standard arsenal, what he'd do if hurt, what he'd do against an opponent he doesn't want to hurt, what he'd do against an opponent he doesn't consider worthy, etc should all be listed as well. If you think I'm saying Disable or whatever is a lead of his, I'm not, what I am saying is that it's apart of his basic arsenal, something he will use if need be and he'd use it in such and such a situation if said situation where to arise. Which is obviously something that should be listed in the Standard Tactic section if you're really going through the effort of giving him one, there's no point in half-assing it, may as well go all in and present exactly what we see him do and when we see him do it.
Which of course, includes Disable, and probably a handful of other abilities but I haven't really had time to look further.

Take movie/anime Mewtwo for instance. It would use mind control in a normal situation, as we see from nurse Joy, but as we can tell from all its fights it prefers to use all kinds of other abilities in combat. If given the choice it neither leads with mind control nor will it use it if the situation seems like it could be solved via other abilities, like forcefields, telekinesis, energy balls or teleportation.

Yes, so explain that in the section? I'm not so sure why you're overcomplicating this, or rather, oversimplifying it, do it right or not at all, accuracy is the most important thing to consider here, you're far to fixated on things like leads, ignoring the fact that fights tend to last longer then one or two seconds. We see him do things, we know when he does said things, so list them in the section and explain the circumstances in which they're used?

I doubt the reason it listened to Giovanni was learning battle strategy.

You can doubt it but it doesn't change that was indeed a partial aspect to what Mewtwo was doing as a personal goal. It was listening because he was trying to learn to control his power and become a worthy opponent so Mew would take notice in it, because he was under the impression Mew was essentially a bigot (As sad as it is, he wasn't wrong( and was ignoring him because Mew thought him not worth its time, in fact that's how Giovanni convinced Mewtwo to come with him in the first place. Though when Giovanni came out and admitted he was being used (not like Mewtwo didn't already figure as much), Mewtwo said **** it and nuked him. That doesn't change the few months where Mewtwo endured that shit to have still transpired though.

Anyway, assuming "Psychic and Confusion speak for themselves" means it has shown to use it without being commanded, I am fine with listing those,

Basically every time you see him use TK is one of the two.

Recover and Disable as the moves Radio Drama Mewtwo has decided to use, given that it demonstrated making the decision to use them by itself. It doesn't sound like they are quite combat feats, but if this is the best we got it is worth mentioning.

Recover you could probably qualify as one, he uses it after dying. Upon waking up, the Lab AI deems Mewtwo a threat and tries to kill him, it takes mewtwo by surprise and ceases his life functions, Mewtwo then uses Recover, heals himself back to normal and destroys the AI in anger for being attacked out of nowhere. So basically exactly what you'd expect, Mewtwo got hurt and healed himself. This was technically the very first thing he ever did.
Disable is, again, he uses, ignoring Giovanni, when Mew shit talks him and Mewtwo decides that in order to prove his and his clones superiority, he'll disable the special abilities of everyone in order to force a battle of raw power. So it's situational, but it is something he decided to use by himself and in a situation specific enough to where the profile can easily explain it.

When does Mewtwo use Disable in the movie? That's news to me.

When he disables the moves of every Pokemon? That was Disable. A pretty roided out variant given it worked on everything there and every move in every Pokemon's arsenal, opposed to just one move at a time among all of them. But he does indeed use it.

Hmmm.... this doesn't load for me.
This work?

Which manga is that from? Idk if we consider any but Pokemon Special as canon.

Who knows on the canonicity, there's a Pokemon canon CRT going on right now and I'm still waiting on the conclusion to know what is or isn't canon to our profile, I linked just to be sure.
But, the first 3 are all from the Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution Manga Adaption. So it's just the new CG Movie but with a few minor tweaks in the fights. Basically all that was changed is right there linked.
The latter is Electric Tale of Pikachu, which is a classic manga adaption of the anime (Those scans you see there are just as old as the movie itself), though in this case, it actually does vary quite a bit overall and with Mewtwo in particular too, Mewtwo in this one is a lot less angry but he went through the usual shit like being used as a tool for Giovanni, nuking his ass, creating an island, inviting trainers, etc, the differences mostly come from his interactions with Fuji (In this Fuji was a father-figure to him) and why he killed Fuji (Only did so because Fuji told him to, as Giovanni was gonna use him to create an army of Mew clones but mindless).
Pretty sure EtoP would be canon to our Wiki but obviously not the exact same Mewtwo as the others, though really everything we see this Mewtwo do, anime Mewtwo did (Mostly just tk and energy nuking).

Another to note, Manga Mewtwo is one for rules, he has pride. He won't accept help or cheat if the battle had established rules and is a 1v1. If the opponent stays fair, he will too. Even if he dies doing it, he has pride is in his power and would prefer to win that way.
Honestly that is the case for a good handful. The game Mewtwo is explicitly stated to want to win and will do anything it can to win, anime Mewtwo (initially) wanted to prove himself the strongest and most powerful and wants to prove it and will even handicap to prove clones are the greatest.

Regardless, I still stand by Disable being something needs to be added to his tactic section, it's something he has, apart of his base moveset in that canon, and we see him use it on his own time later on when the situation arose.
 
DontTalk seems to make sense to me as usual. This is probably uncontroversial to apply.
 
Just a thought: if we’re gonna do this for Mewtwo, how about all characters that have a definable battle tactic for in-character matches?

As Ant said, it’s non-controversial and it would make determining lead moves in vs debates far easier than it is now.
 
I think that they should be gradually added in that case. It would be too impractical and time-consuming to make a major wiki revision project based on this.
 
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