Actual discussion about Ainz's character

[PaChi2]

Ainz Ooal Gow

Currently in his intelligence: Expert strategist in combat. Always tries to fight with knowledge of his enemy, and doesn't underestimate his opponents. Unless he knows for sure that the enemy is no threat, he will usually start the battle with instant death spells like Grasp Heart.

Okay dokay. That's good and all.

my issue comes in that this "strategist" thingy is treated in some vsthreads (more recently the Lille one, but iirc the Accel one was similar) as in Ainz letting his foe have the first move. Im cool with that. However, in other threads (Madara vs Ainz), the skeleton is supposed to actually fight before getting splattered by Limbo. Then again:

Weakness: He is naturally susceptible to the holy and fire elements, but can negate one of those weaknesses depending on what he is wearing. Because of class restrictions, Ainz normally cannot equip most weapons and armor, but he has two ways to get around this restriction. He takes extra damage from crushing attacks, and The Goal of All Life is Death has a cooldown of exactly 100 hours.

I dont see any mention in his weaknesses that he is willing to let the enemy strike first, which is a major factor when dealing with a vsthread.

In conclusion:

Does Ainz let the enemy strike first? If so, his victory over Madara should be removed and his loss against Lille added. Ando of course it must be added to his weaknesses as it plays a big role in fights and its argued everytime.

Im not leaning towards any side, I just want this to be sorted out.

Please bring arguments and scans if possible. Thank you.

Edit:

Minor addition: why dont we assume Ainz starts with the Despair Auras active? I know he doesnt have them activated normally, but its because he can turn them off and doesnt want to kill people at random as that's inconvenient for him. I dont see any reason to assume he doesnt start with basic abilities like that already activated.


Edit2:

IM NOT LETTING THIS GET OFFTOPIC AGAIN.

Please and Thank you.

 

[Maraderchik]

Repeat myself again. I completely agree with Akreious . Ainz paranoid character just make unacÐüeptable to let someone act first.

Ainz credo is - "WHAT IF ENEMY HAVE SOME UNKNOWN METHOD TO KILL ME?"

Especially after Shalltear incident.

 

[PaChi2]

That's an ontopic valid point.

Thank you.

 

[Maraderchik]

Repeat myself again. I completely agree with Akreious:

Ainz in the new world is Paranoid as hell and will not under any circumstances if there's any doubt, let his opponent attack first. The only times he's shown to let the enemy attack first is when he's absolutely sure his opponents pose no threat to him. So all this talk about "He lets his opponent go first" is stupid since he's a PvP player anyways, and in PvP inside MMOs, as a MMO Nut myself, that is easily the most ******** thing you can do.

In this way it's looks more understandable with what exactly i agree.

 

[Parkjammer]

PaChi I'm sorry please forgive meee

on topic, I'd like to point out that Ainz usually doesn't wait for his enemies to attack first before striking. What I'm referring to was one of the rare times Ainz was confronting an enemy that might be too strong for him with little info, and that was the battle with the first Frost Dragon they met. He was under the impression that the dragon killed his two Death Knights at that point and didn't know anything about the dragons, yet he still took the initiative to strike first (even though he was interrupted)

 

[FDrybob]

That's because [Grasp Heart] is convenient for measuring the strength of his enemies.

 

[PaChi2]

bump

 

[Belyompusct]

If Ainz doesn't have main idea (and even worse if he doesn't have even a single bit of information), he will never allow his opponents to make the first move, if only it's not a misfire or an exeption from Ainz himself. He won't try to learn the pattern of enemy's techniques from the get-go cuz of 'tactician mindset' or just for lulz, but immediately fires the most powerful that he has with him, and from this point will continue to strategize his plans. Ainz-sama is known for being unspeakably suspicious, paranoid. He has a bad habit of understimating his own abilities, as well as high intelligence in addition to quite rich combat experience.

 

[OpMasada]

It should be noted there are some cases where he lets his curiosity dictate his behaviour, such as in the recent volume, he let some unknown monster attack him simply because she survived grasp heart to understand how strong she was.

 

[Parkjammer]

You have a point Masada, but I believe he opened that fight by interrupting Dialogue with 3 8th Tier Death spells You have to read what is said to fully understand his mindset i guess haha

This is the text from that time:

"Was, was it you? You killed those two in an instant…?"

Terror was deeply etched on her face. Her body was shaking hard.

"Yes, yes," Ainz carelessly cast a silent ÒÇîDeathÒÇìon the female demihuman as well. "--Hmmm?"

She did not die. Ainz'sÒÇîDeathÒÇìhad been resisted.

In the moment he realized this, Ainz's mind immediately switched into gears, entering a mental state that could be called a combat mode.

Was it a defensive racial characteristic? A protective spell she had cast on herself? Had she resisted it normally? Had a magic item protected her? Or was it something else?

While one could not completely rule out the possibility that it might have been a coincidence, surely she could not have resisted it under her own power. Ainz had observed the three of them as they fought. While he did not think that he had the full measure of their abilities, Ainz was certain that they could not resist the power of his magic in a direct contest.

As Ainz mulled over the reasons for this, he felt that it would be best to stay on his guard and let his opponent make a move.

Perhaps he might discover something that could only be found here. He would like to see the trump card wielded by someone who could resist Ainz's usual attack

---

To me, it seemed like he let he because he was so sure that she was below her, and her magic was nullified as it was coming at Ainz, so in a way he was right. I dont think it was a reckless thing to do though

 

[FDrybob]

I agree with Parkjammer. Ainz already knew her approximate level beforehand, and still was reasonably sure he was safe. That situation wouldn't compare to facing a completely unknown enemy. He also knew that she was working under one of his subordinates, and had confidence that he would have been informed if such a powerful specimen was discovered.

 

[Maraderchik]

Offtopic question, should Ainz's Despair Aura prevent him getting ambushed by melee fighters?

 

[FDrybob]

Offtopic question, should Ainz's Despair Aura prevent him getting ambushed by melee fighters?

Maybe. It depends on a lot of things.

 

[Maraderchik]

Sure.

 

[Akreious]

Offtopic question, should Ainz's Despair Aura prevent him getting ambushed by melee fighters?

As it's been agreed that in an Open-Battle setting with no diplomacy attempted like he does in the series, his Despair Aura would passively be on (As it's on a toggle-based system). So if an opponent without fear manip I think? resist, then they shouldn't be able to go into Melee.

 

[PaChi2]

Summarizing?

 

[Parkjammer]

Well, in summary, the vast majority of Ainz's fights start with him casting some sort of instant death spell or time-manipulation spell. We've seen him open fights with Grasp Heart, Death, and Time Stop most often. He also has used Black Hole and Hellflame, and Despair Aura V offensively, although less often.

I believe there is only two instances of Ainz letting his opponent strike first, and both were very circumstantial. The first is the angel using Holy Smite on him, and the second was the magic of the demihuman who resisted one of his death spells (with an item). The first was more of a showing of the fact that he's above the level of the gods, and also kind of to test where he stood in the world (Plot Induced Stupidity), and the second was because he had observed the demihuman and knew his place was above the level of the demihuman.

Basically - Ainz will try to strike first and 1-shot if serious about killing someone

If I'm wrong please correct me by the way

 

[FDrybob]

Agreed, except for the part about the angel. He was wary at first when Nigun took out the crystal, but once the angel was summoned, he recognized it from Yggdrasil, and knew that the best it could use was seventh tier magic. He knew it was no threat.

 

[PaChi2]

bump

 

[Maraderchik]

@PaChi how is Grasp heart revision is concluded? It's not like we all agree with Yomi opinion and there were not nearly enough evidence to support his claim.

 

[PaChi2]

Well... I reopened it. Go talk there.

 

[ISMNE]

Should Time Stop + Touch of Death be considered a strategy that Ainz would actually use? Also, one thing that really bothered me is that people kept forgetting that Ainz is immune to paralysis as an undead. Doesn't that naturally equate to it being impossible for someone to bind him?

 

[FDrybob]

Ainz has a separate passive skill for nullifying binding and a buff that strengthens it, but without the buff, Albedo was able to overpower it. It should be impossible to paralyze him though, since he doesn't use nerves to move.

 

[Akreious]

Should Time Stop + Touch of Death be considered a strategy that Ainz would actually use? Also, one thing that really bothered me is that people kept forgetting that Ainz is immune to paralysis as an undead. Doesn't that naturally equate to it being impossible for someone to bind him?

If he seriously wants to kill, yes. If the opponent is actually on his level, Time Stop + Death Magic would be his first moves, or at least, attempted first moves.

 

[ISMNE]

Should Time Stop + Touch of Death be considered a strategy that Ainz would actually use? Also, one thing that really bothered me is that people kept forgetting that Ainz is immune to paralysis as an undead. Doesn't that naturally equate to it being impossible for someone to bind him?

If he seriously wants to kill, yes. If the opponent is actually on his level, Time Stop + Death Magic would be his first moves, or at least, attempted first moves.

Touch of Death isn't Death Magic, he used it against Hekkeran in Volume 7 and it paralysed him. That's why I was wondering, because if he did use it, he could stop people below his level from just one-shotting him with hax.

 

[Maraderchik]

It was Touch of Undeath.

 

[ISMNE]

It was Touch of Undeath.

Thanks for letting me know. :L

 

[FDrybob]

He can still use Hold Person to immobilize people. I'm sure he has other spells for it as well.

 

[ISMNE]

He can still use Hold Person to immobilize people. I'm sure he has other spells for it as well.

I was wondering because the whole fight with Gilgamesh was bullshit.

 

[OpMasada]

The thread derails....

 

[FDrybob]

The thread derails....

Well, we've pretty much agreed that Ainz's current description is correct.

 

[OpMasada]

Well PaChi should close this then...

 

[Mand21]

Isn't it simply off-character for Ainz to start with Despair Aura V active? Sure, if he did, then he could very well face-off against a Chuck Norris who wasn't four-dimensional and possibly win. But he doesn't. He never walks around with DAV active. He only rarely uses it.

 

[ISMNE]

Well, sometimes the rules indicate that the combatants know of each other beforehand, therefore, it would make sense for Ainz to start with it. Anyways, what about Grasp Heart, it's practically the same thing, and he has been known to start with it. The only conceivable difference is whether Despair Aura counts as magic, which it shouldn't. So, it's possible for Ainz to think of using it if the enemy is weak enough, like when he slaughtered the ogres.

 

[Akreious]

Isn't it simply off-character for Ainz to start with Despair Aura V active? Sure, if he did, then he could very well face-off against a Chuck Norris who wasn't four-dimensional and possibly win. But he doesn't. He never walks around with DAV active. He only rarely uses it.

No, it's not Off-Character. As per SBA, the two combatants know they have to kill X person. As Ainz has no other motivation to be there (Like say, defend a town or go for diplomatic reasons), he'd treat it as a PvP encounter. In which case, Despair Aura V would indeed be active as there's no reason Ainz would turn off an advantage he has in a PvP setting.

He only has Despair Aura V Deactivated because he doesn't want to passively murder everything around him when trying to gather info about the new world. Saying that "Oh but he doesn't ever!" Is ignoring every context and reason of why Ainz is even acting as Momon in the first place.

 

[OpMasada]

CCif ainz is going to do something like turn on a passive, im pretty suresure that requires prep time

 

[Mand21]

Passives don't need to be turned on. Akreious is right, DAV should be active. That means any of Ainz's foes who doesn't have some level of death hax resistance or doesn't begin the fight outside of Ainz's aura's range (most likely) instadies. Can't easily get at close range with him.

 

[Akreious]

"CCif ainz is going to do something like turn on a passive, im pretty suresure that requires prep time"

That's fairly dumb reasoning seeing as him turning OFF his passive is an exception, not the rule. When going into serious PvP environments, he always has it on period.