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IIRC It was something about the Sun having a conceptual advantage over the Moon therefor BB couldn't affect him with her powers or something.
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Accelerator vs Karna
- Thread starter Kisaragi_Megumi
- Start date
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Hmmmm.......
This is become more difficult to understand!!
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Personal reality is simply esper warping reality in their AIM field and is restricted by their power nature and calculations. As along as the attack deal physical damage it should have vector and should not bypass the barrier (ex when magic was used against accel , even thought it used unknown vector,it was destroyed losing any other extra ability i had)
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Accelerator gets annoyed after a while, gathers energy for an attack, throws said attack, said attack Blitzes Karna and he calls it a day.
Sub Rel projectiles for Accel isn't new heck that's why he did to Kihara after getting Black Wings
Sub Rel projectiles for Accel isn't new heck that's why he did to Kihara after getting Black Wings
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IIRC Kihara was thrown at "dozens of times the speed of sound.
Accelerator could do the "bypass armor and only attack the insides" trick, it's a common thing he tries when going for melee, so he would likely try that pretty early into the fight. I can't really say whether that would be blocked by the armor or not, given there's apparently some small issues about what it defends him against or not going by the above discussion. If his regular attacks are not enough he can gather as much energy as he can from the Earth's rotation, revolution, etc; and use that for said trick.
However, I'm not sure how the Redirection would interact with Karna's Brahmastra (unless there are examples of it being used and missing/being blocked by something else). A homing attack still has vectors (just ones that are always pointing at the designated target), so it could be anything from "Accelerator cannot modify said vectors because the ability is too strong and dies", "Accelerator can modify said vectors but they correct themselves afterwards so Accelerator has Brahmastra bouncing on his Redirection for the entire fight" or "Accelerator can modify said vectors and Brahmastra is treated like any other attack".
Accelerator could do the "bypass armor and only attack the insides" trick, it's a common thing he tries when going for melee, so he would likely try that pretty early into the fight. I can't really say whether that would be blocked by the armor or not, given there's apparently some small issues about what it defends him against or not going by the above discussion. If his regular attacks are not enough he can gather as much energy as he can from the Earth's rotation, revolution, etc; and use that for said trick.
However, I'm not sure how the Redirection would interact with Karna's Brahmastra (unless there are examples of it being used and missing/being blocked by something else). A homing attack still has vectors (just ones that are always pointing at the designated target), so it could be anything from "Accelerator cannot modify said vectors because the ability is too strong and dies", "Accelerator can modify said vectors but they correct themselves afterwards so Accelerator has Brahmastra bouncing on his Redirection for the entire fight" or "Accelerator can modify said vectors and Brahmastra is treated like any other attack".
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Hmmm,interesting.......
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Different writers syndrome strikes again.
Also, Vlad's Kazikli Bey didn't interact with Kavacha and Kundala.
Vlad's spear allows him to declare his target "skewered" after hitting them even once with his spear, bypassing their defenses to skewer all of their internal organs starting with the heart.
This didn't do jack shit to Karna, who simply burned the spears away and kept fighting.
Also, Vlad's Kazikli Bey didn't interact with Kavacha and Kundala.
Vlad's spear allows him to declare his target "skewered" after hitting them even once with his spear, bypassing their defenses to skewer all of their internal organs starting with the heart.
This didn't do jack shit to Karna, who simply burned the spears away and kept fighting.
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Are you really saying that the water spear of a random mook magician is somehow similar/comparable to Karna's Brahmastra?
Not to mention that the issue being discussed here is not whether it's magic or not; it's about the interaction of its conceptual homing capabilities with Accelerator's redirection.
Not to mention that the issue being discussed here is not whether it's magic or not; it's about the interaction of its conceptual homing capabilities with Accelerator's redirection.
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@Lazy
This,i agree with Lazy here,the issue we discuss is the interaction of conceptual homing with Accel vector shield.
This,i agree with Lazy here,the issue we discuss is the interaction of conceptual homing with Accel vector shield.
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@Repp
"You don't fear facing my country by yourself, as expected of a hero—I have already punished you three times over for that arrogance. Yes… My stakes have pierced you three times in total. Therefore, you will die here."
"—!?"
Feeling dread suddenly hit his body, Lancer of Red immediately attempted to jump back—but it was no longer an issue of being slow or fast. It was already in the past. The attack was already ending…!
"You guessed quickly. Yes, my Kaziklu Bey: Lord of Execution isn't a Noble Phantasm that creates stakes. It's the 'stakes stabbed into the enemy' themselves that are the Noble Phantasm. As long as you're within this territory of mine, no matter how much you fortify your body, if it is a fact that you have received an attack from me—"
Within Lancer of Red's body, something was swelling up with violent force. Hard, sharp, repulsively cold, it was—
"Stakes, huh…"
The golden armor that clad Karna's body could protect against stakes, blades, hammers, or any kind of attack regardless of whether it was physical or magical.However—attacks from within his body were a single exceptio Furthermore, these stakes were manifesting in the state of already having pierced him.
Even a hornet with strong jaws and stingers that freely danced through the sky and coveted prey was just powerless food when inside a nest weaved by a multitude of spiders.
Blood trickled down from the three stakes stabbing into him very quickly. This was probably Karna's first experience of receiving damage while clad in that armor."
Nah unlike Vlads stakes, there's nothing to burn when Accel twist his innards since there's nothing to be burned. Only his innard being twisted by Accel's power. Thanks for confirming that Kavacha and Kundala doesn't do anything to something that directly happens inside his body.
@Lazy Karna's Brahmastra has been blocked. It's in America singularity, when he first appears when Helena calls him.
"You don't fear facing my country by yourself, as expected of a hero—I have already punished you three times over for that arrogance. Yes… My stakes have pierced you three times in total. Therefore, you will die here."
"—!?"
Feeling dread suddenly hit his body, Lancer of Red immediately attempted to jump back—but it was no longer an issue of being slow or fast. It was already in the past. The attack was already ending…!
"You guessed quickly. Yes, my Kaziklu Bey: Lord of Execution isn't a Noble Phantasm that creates stakes. It's the 'stakes stabbed into the enemy' themselves that are the Noble Phantasm. As long as you're within this territory of mine, no matter how much you fortify your body, if it is a fact that you have received an attack from me—"
Within Lancer of Red's body, something was swelling up with violent force. Hard, sharp, repulsively cold, it was—
"Stakes, huh…"
The golden armor that clad Karna's body could protect against stakes, blades, hammers, or any kind of attack regardless of whether it was physical or magical.However—attacks from within his body were a single exceptio Furthermore, these stakes were manifesting in the state of already having pierced him.
Even a hornet with strong jaws and stingers that freely danced through the sky and coveted prey was just powerless food when inside a nest weaved by a multitude of spiders.
Blood trickled down from the three stakes stabbing into him very quickly. This was probably Karna's first experience of receiving damage while clad in that armor."
Nah unlike Vlads stakes, there's nothing to burn when Accel twist his innards since there's nothing to be burned. Only his innard being twisted by Accel's power. Thanks for confirming that Kavacha and Kundala doesn't do anything to something that directly happens inside his body.
@Lazy Karna's Brahmastra has been blocked. It's in America singularity, when he first appears when Helena calls him.
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@Zensum
I'm aware of that, but Accelerator has no way to reach into Karna's body. All of Vlad's attacks could only nick him at best. While that was enough to activate Vlad's NP inside of Karna's body, it ultimately did absolutely nothing to slow Karna down.
I'm pretty sure that Brahmastra's inability to miss is going to override Redirection since Accelerator hasn't blocked anything like it before.
I'm aware of that, but Accelerator has no way to reach into Karna's body. All of Vlad's attacks could only nick him at best. While that was enough to activate Vlad's NP inside of Karna's body, it ultimately did absolutely nothing to slow Karna down.
I'm pretty sure that Brahmastra's inability to miss is going to override Redirection since Accelerator hasn't blocked anything like it before.
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no i meant that he redirected the physical vector but the unknown vector behaved differently so instead of simply reflecting the attack it got dispersed instead, here it may apply as well as he can't understand the vector that make the arrow home towards him but can still apply the formula, change all the others, and it may have some strange interaction with that unknown vectorLazyHunter said:
ex:
"If his reflection had succeeded, the water spear should have head straight back at Vodyanoy and pierced her arm. Instead, it had gone astray and had disintegrated into a rainbow of light. It had been an odd phenomenon. It hadn't been something like steam created from water or ice. Accelerator had caused the reflection but he didn't understand the process by which it had turned to light."
the formula still apply but the effect may vary for the unknow vectors
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Accels is manipulating the vectors inside of Karnas body. He doesn't even need to make contact he can mangle him from the inside without even physically touching the vectors. Vlad had to directly attack to "mark" him with Kaziklu as it can't bloom in foreign domain, with accel this isn't even nessecary. Karna had the option to burn Vlads stakes but here nothin is inside of karna to burn he simple gets reidirected into a mess.Reppuzan said:
I mean Vlads stakes dont even pierce Karnas heart just his body without any specific detail. Accel twists his insides crushing his heart/head in the process along with the servents spirtual core.
Accel would just passivley redirect Brahmastra vectors over and over when it hits his shield.
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I thought Post Headshot Accel needed contact
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As his page notes, it's a trick he has explicitly used while in Black Wings mode, but there's a couple of situations where he has apparently done it in Base.
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The formula still apply but it may have different effect, the attack is done trough kinetic force and deal physical damage so the part of the vector get redirected, the unknown one we don't know but hitting something with 0 total force or speed still deal no damageReppuzan said:
btw vector shield is not a real barrier , him AIM (an involuntary movement) is spread in an area around him and with his Personal Reality he alters the area around his AIM which is really limited, just around 1 cm, he set a filter around 1 mm from himself to redirect everything unless he whitelist them ex gravity air and can even set the maximum speed which thing are counter as harmful (air at 2 ms can pass, at 90 ms can't)
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@Malox1696
It's listed on his page. OT19, when he freed a girl from Depart he sliced some chains just by slightly moving his fingers and when he took down Spark Signal the terrorists had their bodies sliced and crushed without Accelerator being mentioned to touch them whenever they tried using hostages and when they reached for the explosives.
@Reppuzan
"He hasn't encountered it before" it's not necessarily a good argument for arguing it bypasses redirection. Accelerator redirected Dark Matter, which doesn't exactly follow the laws of physics, the first time he encountered it, and managed to redirect magic (weirdly, but redirected nonetheless) the first time he encountered it. I could use the same argument and say that Brahmastra has never been used on vector manipulation defense on the level of Accelerator's.
I'm also going to have to ask for a quote of it being "conceptually bound", because Karna's techniques section and the series' wiki don't mention that and just say it will surely strike the enemy, especially considering that the "regardless of the distance" appears to be a hyperbole since that the boosted version, Brahmastra Kundala, is mentioned to have improved range.
It's listed on his page. OT19, when he freed a girl from Depart he sliced some chains just by slightly moving his fingers and when he took down Spark Signal the terrorists had their bodies sliced and crushed without Accelerator being mentioned to touch them whenever they tried using hostages and when they reached for the explosives.
@Reppuzan
"He hasn't encountered it before" it's not necessarily a good argument for arguing it bypasses redirection. Accelerator redirected Dark Matter, which doesn't exactly follow the laws of physics, the first time he encountered it, and managed to redirect magic (weirdly, but redirected nonetheless) the first time he encountered it. I could use the same argument and say that Brahmastra has never been used on vector manipulation defense on the level of Accelerator's.
I'm also going to have to ask for a quote of it being "conceptually bound", because Karna's techniques section and the series' wiki don't mention that and just say it will surely strike the enemy, especially considering that the "regardless of the distance" appears to be a hyperbole since that the boosted version, Brahmastra Kundala, is mentioned to have improved range.
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Ik.Reppuzan said:
What conceptual vectors? loooool. No Brahmastra the attack is conceptually homing Accel is redirecting its vectors soley when it hits his AIM. You could argue after he redirects it comes back but by then Accel would just continue to passivley reflect it as hes turning Karna inside out remotley. Accel has effected magic something he had never encountered before. As he didn't understand its laws he didnt know how to explain the phenominon he only ended up blocking it. After being exposed to it he is able to figure it out and make it do what he wants like Dark Matter and Telsma to a degree.
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@Lazyhunter
Brahmastra is said to surely strike the target by invoking the name of Brahman, a Divine Spirit. Divine Spirits are able to manipulate concepts such as world-building and the flow of time.
"An Anti-Army, Anti-Country Noble Phantasm granted to Karna by Parashurama of the Brahmin. If his Class is Archer it will be a bow, while under other Classes it will manifest as a different projectile weapon. By calling upon the name of the god Brahma it will pursue the enemy and surely hit, but because of a curse it cannot be used on opponents of greater ability than himself."
Brahmastra is said to surely strike the target by invoking the name of Brahman, a Divine Spirit. Divine Spirits are able to manipulate concepts such as world-building and the flow of time.
"An Anti-Army, Anti-Country Noble Phantasm granted to Karna by Parashurama of the Brahmin. If his Class is Archer it will be a bow, while under other Classes it will manifest as a different projectile weapon. By calling upon the name of the god Brahma it will pursue the enemy and surely hit, but because of a curse it cannot be used on opponents of greater ability than himself."
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@Reppuzan
Sorry, but I don't see why that would make it conceptually bound to hit the enemy at all, just because Karna invokes it using the name of a god. Like, even if drew upon the power of said god, what proof is that the god is conceptually binding it to hit the opponent? You could use the same thing to claim that the god is manipulating time/causality to turn it into a pseudo Gae Blog that retcons itself to hit you before the fight even started, because Divine Spirits can manipul├▒ate the flow of time/causality/whatever.
This is the kind of thing you need a direct quote or statement, not vague especulation.
@Malox1696
The issue is that when Accelerator starts to manipulate wind it's pretty noticeable since it moves all around it, while in this case the only effect was the chains being sliced without a visible cause.
Sorry, but I don't see why that would make it conceptually bound to hit the enemy at all, just because Karna invokes it using the name of a god. Like, even if drew upon the power of said god, what proof is that the god is conceptually binding it to hit the opponent? You could use the same thing to claim that the god is manipulating time/causality to turn it into a pseudo Gae Blog that retcons itself to hit you before the fight even started, because Divine Spirits can manipul├▒ate the flow of time/causality/whatever.
This is the kind of thing you need a direct quote or statement, not vague especulation.
@Malox1696
The issue is that when Accelerator starts to manipulate wind it's pretty noticeable since it moves all around it, while in this case the only effect was the chains being sliced without a visible cause.
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@LazyHunter what i meant is somthing similar to this https://mangatown.secure.footprint....8f1e1e94598c5912a375441e4ffd54&ttl=1521471600
but applyed to wind
but applyed to wind
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As I said, Accelerator doesn't manipulate wind that way, when he uses it the wind starts to whip around him. It's pretty noticeable, it should be even more noticeable if it was used indoors. The only other thing it could be it's the vector slicing trick he used in NT19, and we don't know when he figured out that trick.
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@LazyHunter
ok fair
@Reppuzan
as said before the normal vector still get reflected so:1) it gets dispersed as vector control mess with the unknown vector in unforeseen way 2) it gets reflected but comes back constantly 3) all the normal vector get redirect and only the unknown vector passes with no force or speed 4) the projectile get stuck just around the barrier as the vector that push it forward has the same module as the one that pushes it backwards so it's equal to 0
ok fair
@Reppuzan
as said before the normal vector still get reflected so:1) it gets dispersed as vector control mess with the unknown vector in unforeseen way 2) it gets reflected but comes back constantly 3) all the normal vector get redirect and only the unknown vector passes with no force or speed 4) the projectile get stuck just around the barrier as the vector that push it forward has the same module as the one that pushes it backwards so it's equal to 0
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Its already over today,the people still discuss it.
So,anyone want to add this?
So,anyone want to add this?
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Well,i already add this in Karna profile,but Accelis locked >_>
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So who won?
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Accel,and its already added,so concluded.
BTW new Karna match : https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1501081
BTW new Karna match : https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1501081
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