Accelerator vs Esdeath

[Paul_Frank]

She stops time with no ice involved

Also it does matter if it has vectors, vectorless ice for instance cant be reflected just because its ice

 

[Scrlk666777]

How is it vectorless? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Her ice manip isnt vectorless I was just making an example since you said something being vectorless doesn't matter

Her time stop is vectorless though

 

[Scrlk666777]

I didn't say any such thing.

 

[Paul_Frank]

That doesn't mafter, it's still Ice. She uses her powers to control and manipulate ice. Accel can reflect Ice.

Im not sure what you were saying didn't matter then, I was assuming it was in response to me saying that be was able to reflect the other espers powers since they had vectors

 

[Scrlk666777]

You said that her ice powers would work in general and be able to bypass reflrection and I counteracted saying that it can't.

I literally said underneath the quote you posted that time stop was a different story, do you actually read these posts fully?

 

[Accelerate420]

I unfollowed this but.


>Vectorless ice can't be reflected just because it's ice

Technically it can since he'd substitue the temperature of the ice for the lack of the vectors.

 

[Paul_Frank]

@scr

I never said that her ice powers in general work though?

@accelerate

I dont think that's actually a thing he can do

 

[Scrlk666777]

You said that her ice manipulation would work on him because it's a power, which is illogical since every manipulation is a power.

Also you don't think he can do what? Reflect the cold?

 

[Paul_Frank]

I said that her time stop would work even if we assumed it was ice manip because her time stop is vectorless so it wouldn't matter if it was ice based or not

I dont think he can switch the temperature for the lack of vectors since the lack of vectors is kinda something he cant manipulate

 

[Accelerate420]

Literally the whole point of ice is it's a frozen liquid from cold/lack of air. It's frozen and has a temperature. His power works on focusing on what's there so he can easily create vectors from a force that's there. This is ignoring the method that he can just apply vectors regardless of whether they lack them or not.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Literally the whole point of ice is it's a frozen liquid from cold/lack of air. It's frozen and has a temperature. His power works on focusing on what's there so he can easily create vectors from a force that's there. This is ignoring the method that he can just apply vectors regardless of whether they lack them or not.

No one said he can't manipulate the vectors of ice

I said he couldn't manipulate the vectors of a hypothetically vectorless ice

Pre headshot cant just give vectorless things vectors to manipulate them

 

[Accelerate420]

I still don't see why this fight is still a thing when PRe-headshot just speed-amps to sub-rev and bodies, unless Speed-amping is restricted.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because that's not a thing he has on his profile or has ever done pre headshot

 

[Accelerate420]

It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping?

 

[Accelerate420]

Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel.

Then you should make a crt

He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping?

Insert obligatory "everything is technically reality warping" statement here.

Scalar quantities aren't poorly defined vectors. Vectors require direction, scalars lack it. If Accel has vector manipulation and manipulates heat, for a very scientific show it messed up some basic Physics 101. Of course, he gets a pass if it's heat flux, which is a vector.

 

[Accelerate420]

Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel.

Then you should make a crt
He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

There is a CRT right now. Post doesn't have 'better vector manip'. He just learned how to apply it better, the vectors never quantifiably changed properties. He just learned he can do more than reflect. Vectors aren't even technically tierable to begin with.

 

[Accelerate420]

It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping?

Insert obligatory "everything is technically reality warping" statement here.

Scalar quantities aren't poorly defined vectors. Vectors require direction, scalars lack it. If Accel has vector manipulation and manipulates heat, for a very scientific show it messed up some basic Physics 101. Of course, he gets a pass if it's heat flux, which is a vector.

Not sure you missed the memo but that's literally how Esper Abilities work. "I think I can do this so I can do it". If he understands an attack regardless of them being scalar's or not, he can apply vectors to them. It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's...absurdly broken.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

Actually he can, this is actually a canon fact. Also while heat is a scalar itself, heat flux is a vector. But Accel has manipulated things that techically he shouldn't be able to like energy and electricity, both of which are scalars.

But Accel's power is based on reality warping and manipulation, it's only called vector manipulation but really his power is basically based on what he understands. If he can understand it, he can manipulate it in some way. It's why he can manipulate conceptional energy to break a demon's contract.

 

[Accelerate420]

It's based off of Schrodingers Cat so yeah. But the draw back is he has to take it into his body to input these things. If he's hit with a vectorless attack, if it kills him right away, that's that.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

"Heat" may not have a vector but it's not like he can't apply a direction to it. heat flux is a vector so for all intent and purposes there's no real difference between controlling "heat" and "heat flux"

 

[VoidGoji]

Also, Accel manipulated Dark Matter. You know, the thing that doesn't work according to physics and doesn't exist. He just "oh, cool. Let me add that to my calcs." and forced it to work by normal vectors.

 

[VoidGoji]

That's...absurdly broken.

Kek. That's how Esper's work in To Aru. They are warping reality via quantum manipulation and enforcing their own microcosm/personal reality (thats why they need the calculations to make their powers work) on the macrocosm/normal reality.

And there are the holistic ones, who literally make a bigass event happen on the macrocosm to create an event on a micro scale (like colliding planets to create a fire thats barely hot enough to boil water)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Schro talk to me on Discord I have so many questions about ToAru

 

[Malox1696]

Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

Lol heat is literally moving atom and electrons, we count it as scalar but it's not, hell he got inside lava and 0 kelvin no problem

 

[SinsofMan]

Esdeath fra,

 

[Malox1696]

Then you should make a crt

He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

Post head shoot has better uses as he is more creative, pre head shoot has more calculation power as his brain was not damaged

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Esdeath fra,

I will glad if you retract your vote, from what i see there is a new discussion here that will make Accel power more broken.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Does Esdeath have knowledge of Accel and his powers and vice versa?

@Malox

Are you still on that?

 

[Schnee_One]

I will glad if you retract your vote, from what i see there is a new discussion here that will make Accel power more broken.

You have zero right to decide votes, and if you paid attention this doesn't relate to the fight

 

[Scrlk666777]

Going against what?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

About the scalar thing and dark matter, right?

 

[Schnee_One]

Going against what?

Scalar and Dark Matter

Which has literally nothing to do with this fight Might I add. Esdeaths Ice isn't vectorless, but her timestop is.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Schnee one

Who is going against this? It's canon that he can manipulate dark matter and it's also canon that he has manipulated things that are considered scalars in real life. This is all canon.

Back onto the fight though I think Esdeath having knowledge or Accel's ability or not and how it works might be important in this fight.

 

[Malox1696]

As I said time stop is vector less but the medium that causes its not, if she is using an application of ice manipulation to create a time stop , rejecting the medium would leave him unaffected (example magneto is not immune to heat, but if u use a hot slab of steel to try and hit him and he just send it back his vulnerability to heat does not matter as he is affecting the medium of the heat)

 

[Schnee_One]

@Malox The Magneto example doesn't apply when that is still steel that's just really hot

Esdeath does not use ice to literally freeze time. It's a swoerate application of her Teigu