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Accelerator Revisions and minor Kakine revision

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Accelerator Pre-headshot upgrade and Kakine's key revision

Accelerator's Pre-headshot key should match his post-headshot key stats.

AP: 5-B, likely far Higher

Durability: Street, High Complex multiversal (with vector shield)

Speed: Sub-Rel

Kakine's OT key and possibly NT key should be revised.


Kakine shouldn't really scale to Accelerator especially his OT 15 key, Accelerator wasn't taking the fight seriously at first and when he did Kakine was completely stomped.

Other characters that have thought other characters that held back, aren't scaled to those characters so I'm not quite sure why Kakine is.

Kakine has only really shown at best multi-block AP for his OT 15 key.


Powers that should possibly be added.


Gravity Manipulation


In OT 5 it was said that he has to consciously let gravity in and has shown actual control of it, like jumping to the very top of sky scrapers, OT 19 and NT 19, lifting walls OT 13 and possibly using it against Kakine when he smashed him into the ground.


Sound Manipulation

In Volume 5 of A Certain Magic Index and in Chapter 52 of A certain Scientific Accelerator, it is shown he can manipulate sound.


Electricity and Heat Manipulation

In OT 5, Electricity and Heat were two of the things that were said that Accelerator can control, Accelerator has shown feats of being able to control electricity through being able to hack into systems such as the database in OT 13 and most likely used his vector control to hack into Aleister's phone.

Limited Light Manipulation

Like Gravity, Accelerator has to allow light in so he should have some kind of control over it, even if it's limited.

Heat Resistance

Accelerator can withstand extremely hot temperatures.

Information analysis

Accelerator knocked the rescue worker aside without even waiting for him to finish speaking and moved to the spot the man had previously been in. He leaned over and reached a hand up to the switch of his choker electrode. He then lightly reached a hand towards the pregnant woman's belly.



He had once calculated back from the electrical signals on the surface of the skin in order to completely rewrite the structure of a small girl's brain so he could save her. It was not difficult for him to gather accurate information on the fetus by touching the pregnant woman's belly.



(…Gender: Female. Weight: 244 grams. Nutrition Supply Level: 3825. Consciousness Operation Rate: 3.8. Heart Rate: 60. Stimulus Reaction Rate: 5.52. Cell Division: 88…)l.


Analytical predictio

Enhanced senses (Can sense Magic and other frequencies)


Accelerator sensing Magic

Accelerator, like Sasha, is able to sense magic "I'd actually like to consult with you on that matter. You were in the middle of target practice, so it couldn't have been that I made a noise. So how did you detect my presence?" "You're always blabbering about something, aren't you? I'm not gonna help you with that." Accelerator spat out, but he honestly hadn't noticed Unabara Mitsuki's approach. At least not with any of his normal sensory organs. But… (Tch. They're trembling again…) The hand that had held the handgun was hurting for a reason other than fatigue.



and



Due to an exceedingly subjective feeling, he found the parchments to be odd. That feeling was one of pressure in the center of his chest. It was similar to what he felt when Unabara Mitsuki was nearby. Accelerator recalled that boy's powers being referred to as if they were not simply esper powers (of course that could very well just be a bluff to keep what his esper power as a secret), so he wondered if there was any connection.


Accelerator sensing frequencies

"Like I said before, finding a lost child is part of my job. Now then. I just had to analyze the music playing in the background of her phone call to determine her location."



"Hmph. Are you talking about that sound no one hears that plays all over the city?"



"Oh? So someone actually noticed. Technically, it's a wave with a frequency lower than the audible range for humans."



"You idiots," spat out Accelerator.



He was an esper with the power to observe, calculate, and control every type of vector. If he missed the vectors he could not see or hear, he would never be able to defend against things like radiation.



Biological Manipulation (Personal only)

Accelerator has full control of both his brain and biological vectors which allows him to reject poisons from his blood and allows him to resist Misaki's mental out.

AP Ampting through controlling the magnitude of vectors


Accelerator can control magnitude of the vectors as shown in chapter 52 of the Accelerator manga when he amplifed the monkey's cries high enough to blow out bullets from the air and burst ear drums. He should also be able to amp his AP with this.


Anti-Magic via Clonoth/Platinum wings

In NT22R, it is shown he has better control over magic and can reflect and deal with magic a lot better.

Cetain types of Mind-Hax Resistence

Wasn't affected by Qliphah Puzzle 545's madness which affected Kanzaki and Knight Leader and Nephithys tears of transmission also didn't work on Accelerator. He also isn't affected by Misaki's mental out abilties.

Reflecting Omnidirectional attacks

The white monster gave a snort of laughter.

A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike.

The apparent distance between them did not matter.

Not when that queen used her full power.

That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully united the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom; it could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's power while on British territory. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase… for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom.

However.

Immediately afterwards, a deafening metal clang filled the air and Curtana Second shot upwards.

"!?"

(Did he alter the course of blade by directly hitting Curtana with a projectile instead of going for the line of the slash!?)

That said, Elizard could directly deflect heavy machine gun bullets with that sword.

To knock her off balance like this would require something on the level of a strategic bombing.

In fact.

When Second Princess Carissa had held Curtana Original, she had ordered a cruise missile strike on herself and used the sword to escape unscathed.

The sword's unnatural movement pulled both Elizard's arms up like she was cheering, but Accelerator did not make a further attack. Even though he could have kicked a pebble and manipulated its vector to tear through her organs while her torso was exposed like this.


And

Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?
 
I would also include that he can control magnitude when taking manual control of vectors like he did when he amplified the Monkey's cries high enough to blow out bullets from the air. So esdentionally AP amping.
 
As for the reasons for pre scaling to post.

One is brain damaged and the other isn't, vectors dont magically get stronger the weaker your calculation power gets, pretty reasonable, right?
 
That should sound pretty reasonable and thinking about it, is probably right. I think Touma even said in NT 10 that Accel was on planet level from the very beginning and most of the time in Toaru, most things are from the word of mouth rather than what is shown.

Because Kamachi isn't going to allow Accel to destroy a planet lol.

Okay I'll add the magnitude and AP into the OP
 
Agree with everything. Btw, i think we should add resistance to soul manipulation, because if he can manipulate (even in a limited manner), he should be able to passive redirect.
 
Kamachi distinguishes between the universe and the planet quite frequently bt referring to the universe as "The World" (common in japanese literature) and the planet as "the planet". Whether it was flowery language or not Accel casually drop kicks with enough force to shake the planet in NT22 so it never really surprised me that he's always been Planet level at a minimum. Not counting vector amping.

I wouldnt add soul manipulation personally (yet) but I would include "limited" Anti-magic with Clonoth/Platinum wings since we dont know the full extent.
 
Wait. I understand the logic Accel pre headshot was stronger than post headshot if we see his calculating power, but we shouldn't equalize them because Accel didn't have all those power back than.

Even before vol.22 he was struggling to reflect magic, leave alone his pre headshot. I don't think we can assume pre headshot Accel would be able to block High 1C attack from Coronzon.
 
I dont think you understand that the only thing about his vectors that he changed from pre to post is using them better. He didnt get stronger so that's irrelevant. He could likely always calc enough to put a hole in the planet if he wanted too. The only difference is he learned new applications.
 
The magic thing is irrelevant since it has nothing to do with his vector durability and more so they were unknown. If you still punched him with 1-C stuff physically it'd still redirect. These things you pointed out dont correlate.
 
Yeah the vectors themselves haven't gotten stronger or weaker but more he's become more creative and came to understand things he didn't before. He didn't come into contact with magic until after he was shot in the head.

Yeah, anti-magic should be added but I think that should be added with the NTR22 updates. I would say limited for now as well but it's powerful enough to at least be able to withstand Curtana.
 
Accel already has soul manipulation (he punched corazon's soul out) and everything he is able to understand he can redirect, because of that he should have soul resistance.
 
I'd say soul resistance comes with the territory of Anti-magic but it's likely mechanic dependent. I personally would not put it but I'd lump it with Anti-magic.
 
I don't think so, magic in index doesn't normally affect the soul, so mixing anti-magic and soul resistence don't make much sense to me.
 
I suppose it's up for debate. I would hold off on it for further proof but if he understood the process of forcing astral projection on Coronzon it's not too far fetched. I feel we should stick with the current revisions first before exploring that.
 
Okay I added Anti-Magic to the list.

I agree with Accelerate420, I think we should hold off on Soul resistence for now, although I do agree that it's entirely possible that he should have some resistence to it but right now it's only a theory.

I do think we should add mind hax resistence since he has actually shown resistence, like being immune to Qliphah's madness and Neph's tears of transmission. At least he should have limited at the very least
 
I think full mind hax resistance is fine in general. I thought it was always self explanatory that mind hax won't work unless it's some extremely bizarre reality warping technique since it requires transmission in most cases in fiction.
 
Yeah, I never understood why it's so excepted that mind hax would work, unless like you said it's extremely bizarre reality warping, on top of that like I said he's actually shown feats of resistsing.

Okay. I'll add that now. There's so much stuff missing from Accelerator's profile.

I think apart from the Accelerator stuff, it's just the Kakine scaling.
 
I think that's it for Accel as of now. Kakine is a different story though. I think Kakine's AP is dependent on the matter he is making his weapons expend/wings, but in the end I'd settle for simply multi-city block at least. Post regen is probably even less dependent on AP. Durability wise he should probably at least scale closer to saints since he was able to have a supersonic fest with Rensa using Accel's vectors with Wings.

Speaking of, Rensa may or may not get upgraded too but that can be left for another day.
 
Yes, I think both OT and NT Kakine's key should be At least Multi-block but should have saint like Durability. Kakine has never really shown he has high AP but rather great durability.

I think Rensa should be upgraded and possibly Gabriel and Kazakiri as well. But like you said this can be left for another day.
 
That sounds about right. Accel was kicking saint tier rocks at him during OT15 after all.

I think all that's left is to get a mods attention or wait for more agreements on Kakine's durability? Speed wise I think he should be kept the same for now. Most that needs to happen is an AP downscale really.
 
I agree. Speed should stay the same, durability possibly upgraded with OT key and AP should be downgraded.
 
545 actually affected the golden cabal too, only mathers realized it, and accel was never affected by people clearing fields too

accel should have some sort of durability negation/ Striking Strength scaling to opponent durability thanks to reflection applying up to 1c (as whatever the material is resisting the changes made by accel and applying strength to him would just get that force reflected back to the material until it moves or, if it can't, break)

for kakine durability im unsure as DM really can have whatever property he likes, for example he created an unmovable object accel simply ignored it as he redirected the vector that kept the object unmovable, he was unscathed by durability negating attack such as Mimosa
 
No, I don't. I have to re-read OT 15. There's a lot to remember though.

So are you saying that Kakine and Accel should get durability negation?
 
accel should as explained above but ' it's not really negation more like scaling (results are almost the same)

kekine post nt already has it, ot it's unknown but it has some ground as it has been stated to slice everything but it's really flimsy, tho durability can probably stay as it his city block

dm already works on quantum lvl tho
 
My OP is more revising Kakine's AP not anything else as his City Level AP is unfounded espeically since it's scaled to Accel.
 
The spin-off is a one shot so it's unlikely we will get much information plus it looks like it will be Pre-OT 15 and I doubt he's going to fight anyone on City level or higher.
 
I absolutely disagree with backwards scaling Accel. As said frequently already, espers grow stronger through various things. Battles and mental growth for example. There is no proof that Accel can't have grown stronger between the first match with Touma and his feats multiple month later.


Don't think AP Amping makes sense. This is an application of his AP, not an increase of it. It's roughly like saying that every telekinetic that can accelerate a rock someone threw should have AP amping.

A justification of analytic prediction would be good. Only thing that comes to mind for me would be that instance with Kakine in which case he should get it to.

Brain & Biological: When did he demonstrate those things?

Mind Hax Resistance: When did he demonstrate that? Last I checked the tears of transmission is nothing that targets Accel and Qliphah's power did exactly what it was supposed to on him, after being boosted by it.

And I'm not sure when exactly you think Qliphah targeted him with war madness, especially to a notable degree.
 
yea but at least i hope kamachi explain his ability in more depth after all most of his fight were off screen
 
Don'ttalk DT

The AP aming comes from him being able to control magnitude which a telekinesis can't do, at least as far as I'm aware.

Brain and Biological: He has demostrated this quite a lot and it's also said multiple times that he has full control over his body and brain, which is why he can resist mental out and how he can reject poisions already in his blood system. This is only personal though which means he can only perforn these feats on himself not others. I suppose the latter can fall into blood Manipulation which he's already got.

Mind Hax Reistence: Qliphah's madness targetted anyone in the UK and Accel being in the Uk at the time should have been affected but wasn't. Neph could only affect Accel indirectly by targetting Qliphah and using their contract.
 
Analytic prediction comes from his ability and requirement to "see" the world in vectors, it was stated he calculates every vector he is aware of even the one he can't see (like radiation, etc)

it would not be like touma obv but it helps with trajectory and most single direction movement and most hidden attacks

his ap should be the same or better, esper do grow as u said but it's either more calculations or way to use their powers, considering his calculation is lower and not related to him, anything related to that would scale back, that's why the barrier should be 1c and most normal vector attack should scale back too at least for melee

but it's not really important as i explained above his striking strength would scale now thanks to the reflection barrier

for mind resistance, he was able to look at 545 that is described as poisonous of the world and would destroy the mind of those who have not delved deeper in the study of magic by simply looking at her clothes, was unaffected by 545 aura of madness and is immune to people clearing field

for brain and bio: he can control his blood flow automatically and his brain even has routine when he is unconscious as showed in his manga
 
DontTalkDT said:
I absolutely disagree with backwards scaling Accel. As said frequently already, espers grow stronger through various things. Battles and mental growth for example. There is no proof that Accel can't have grown stronger between the first match with Touma and his feats multiple month later.


Don't think AP Amping makes sense. This is an application of his AP, not an increase of it. It's roughly like saying that every telekinetic that can accelerate a rock someone threw should have AP amping.

A justification of analytic prediction would be good. Only thing that comes to mind for me would be that instance with Kakine in which case he should get it to.

Brain & Biological: When did he demonstrate those things?

Mind Hax Resistance: When did he demonstrate that? Last I checked the tears of transmission is nothing that targets Accel and Qliphah's power did exactly what it was supposed to on him, after being boosted by it.

And I'm not sure when exactly you think Qliphah targeted him with war madness, especially to a notable degree.
1:That's not how Accelerator's ability works, especially when he has more than half of the calculation power in post. As was stated before, literally nothing about his vectors changed in terms of pure output power because his abikity doesnt operate like that. It uses existing vectors and/or applies them and increases its magnitude. He is NOT randomly getting stronger Vector powers. It makes o sense in the context of his ability and series when to begin with, his power is abusing other energies. This is isnt shounen and Espers dont "get stronger" in that way. They only add applications to their personal reality and learn new ways to apply their ability. Esper abilities just don't function the way you're stating unless it's regarding Level jumping and 3even that mostly increases application range. Why would it work like "oh hey I fought this guy and now i can put holes in planets with my ability that was always designed to control and apply existing vectors!" No, it just means his experience in applying it widens. It goes against the fundamentala of what we know about Espers which us application growth, especially when his ability is to prioritize what is there ro begin with. Meaning that it's not like he is just magically pulling stronger variables out of his ass, because once again, it doesn't work that way, but because he could always calculate to that degree, he unironically just never had a reason to try leveling the planet.

2: What does this even mean? He clearly magnified the cries. It's said that his ability priortizes what is there rather than what isn't, and he technically already AP amps with kinetic energy to begin with constantly.

3:OT19 is information/analyzsis manipulation.

4: Literally in the manga when he expelled poison gas from his body and kept his organs and blood flow flowing through open air after being split in half by Aiwass.

4: During NT20 he was unaffected by Qliphah's effects and it makes no sense to assume it would work outside of gimmick abilities due to how his filter works unless you pull the "show proof" deflect. The target wasnt individuals but the entire nation at the time.
 
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