- 18,393
- 14,323
You are aware of which new requirement we are talking about?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Acausality Type 5 checklist
- Thread starter Theglassman12
- Start date
-
- Tags
- acausality
- Status
- 43,104
- 37,244
Yep, and under those standards even three verses qualifies under solid, which is more enough to keep a type. And then two more qualify under possibly 5
Glass is holding us to those standards and five verses have qualified one way or another.
- 18,393
- 14,323
So you are telling me that those characters has explict statements of transcending all possible causality systems in their verse, where in fact, those who are not shown in the plot are still "transcended".
Then again, what make it different to omnipotence? This is definition of "absolute uninteractable".
Then again, what make it different to omnipotence? This is definition of "absolute uninteractable".
- 43,104
- 37,244
Woman, it seems so, these standards actually have folks who qualify.
I don't know and I don't care, I'm only here to get Warhammer some form of type 5 and I've succeeded in that, complain to someone else please
- 18,393
- 14,323
I don't know mate, I have bad feeling that those can actually qualify, so let's see, a seperate thread to analyse them is preferrable.
- 43,104
- 37,244
How redundant, this thread is fine as is.
- 18,393
- 14,323
How lovely by you, the new requirements if added will override this. No, its not fine as it is since this thread operate on current one, not the possible newest one.
- 43,104
- 37,244
This thread was made just over 2 weeks ago. That's new enough for me!
- 18,393
- 14,323
This makes me think that you are actually not aware of which context we (Georr, Fuji and me) are talking about. Never mind it, then.
- 5,387
- 4,297
The idea of a statement saying you transcend all causality systems is so ridiculously specific.
- 43,104
- 37,244
No, I'm aware, and the thread is being held to the standards I saw Fuji claim nobody qualifies under when objectively multiple verses do
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
When someone says "all cause and effect natures," please don't include all those goddamn "dimensional planes" because no one is talking about it. Qawsedf has explained this before, but if you still don't understand, that's your problem.
- 18,393
- 14,323
It is not her concern; rather, it is an unnecessary arbitrary requirement that lacks a logical justification, which in fact is opposite to the uninteractability imposed by everything12.
Merely having one staff member explain how things work does not establish the fact that this is how it should work with absolute accuracy. While the explanation was provided, it does not necessarily guarantee its complete validity.
Moreover, you should be aware that arbitrary requirements, especially those lacking universal reasoning agreed upon by all, tend to be non-convincing and practically unachievable without any justifiable cause. Additionally, you introduced an additional standard instead of the claim of aligning with an "existing unspoken rule".
Merely having one staff member explain how things work does not establish the fact that this is how it should work with absolute accuracy. While the explanation was provided, it does not necessarily guarantee its complete validity.
Moreover, you should be aware that arbitrary requirements, especially those lacking universal reasoning agreed upon by all, tend to be non-convincing and practically unachievable without any justifiable cause. Additionally, you introduced an additional standard instead of the claim of aligning with an "existing unspoken rule".
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
Specifying all causal systems would include those of higher dimensions. That is a problem with the way you chose to write this new standard.
- 5,234
- 2,322
No it isn't, nobody agrees with your thread, which is also just dead in the water at this point, and those standards have not been put in place
Qaw has not said that on the thread, what qaw said is that type 5 is only accepted to work up to where its feats go
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
All causal systems simply mean all causal systems in that dimensional plane. No one is adding or messing with all the dimensional systems. God... why is everyone trying so hard not to understand something?
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
This is exactly what it requires. Then there shouldn't be any goddamn difference between Type 4 and Type 5.
- 18,393
- 14,323
The current standards show a significant difference between these two. You are simply introducing a rejected standard. That's it.
Also, why are you calling Fuji and others stupid for not understanding? The term 'all' is meant to have no limits in its definition. You cannot impose a limitation and expect us to accept it. This is English.
Also, why are you calling Fuji and others stupid for not understanding? The term 'all' is meant to have no limits in its definition. You cannot impose a limitation and expect us to accept it. This is English.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
Actually, Qaw agreed with the OP. But no more input is coming. I guess we opened it at the wrong time because the Low 1-A wiki and Marvel discussions are still going on.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
I'm not promoting a rejected standard huh. When someone say "all cause-effect systems/natures", you all think of "causality systems existing on all dimensional planes". But what I and Qaw are saying is just to being outside the all cause-effect systems in their dimensional plane. I think this is the part you misunderstood.
Huh what? I didn't call any of them stupid. I just said they didn't want to understand it, unfortunately the two do not mean the same thing.
- 18,393
- 14,323
You are, read my six pages thread about it. I totally did not misunderstand it.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
Yes you definitely misunderstood that's why you interpreted it that way.
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #183
@ImmortalDread I seriously wanna know what part of Elizhaa's comments is an admin contesting against the standards for type 5? Elizhaa's only responding to the Instant Death stuff, not the standards as a whole. Also why make a separate thread when this to evaluate who qualifies for type 5 when this thread exists? If you're not going to add anything to the conversation beyond derailment I will be deleting comments.
@ActuallySpaceMan42 So if I'm getting this right, these particular beings are frozen and is unable to be harmed, and another character has to make an avatar to harm them due to his true form transcending space and time. Is there anything regarding the transcending character being beyond causality as a result of not being bound by this constant change? Because if that exists I can see type 5.
@Georredannea15 stop derailing my thread with this "beyond all forms of cause and effect systems" nonsense, nothing about type 5 has remotely said that. If I see this one more time I'm deleting your comments, and if you keep this up I will report you for derailing the thread.
@DaReaperMan I'm still waiting for a couple scans on SCP stuff, as for WoD I'm not getting much of a response from Udl so if there's no one that can back up type 5 I'll just check it off as unqualified.
@ActuallySpaceMan42 So if I'm getting this right, these particular beings are frozen and is unable to be harmed, and another character has to make an avatar to harm them due to his true form transcending space and time. Is there anything regarding the transcending character being beyond causality as a result of not being bound by this constant change? Because if that exists I can see type 5.
@Georredannea15 stop derailing my thread with this "beyond all forms of cause and effect systems" nonsense, nothing about type 5 has remotely said that. If I see this one more time I'm deleting your comments, and if you keep this up I will report you for derailing the thread.
@DaReaperMan I'm still waiting for a couple scans on SCP stuff, as for WoD I'm not getting much of a response from Udl so if there's no one that can back up type 5 I'll just check it off as unqualified.
Georredannea15
He/Him- 4,726
- 3,123
I have already said that I don't want to talk here in order not to go off the rails, but they kept insisting on answering, and if you want to report me, you are free, and I am sure that this is said for Type 5, and if you have a problem, say them in the my revision.
- 5,410
- 6,217
Dunno if this counts but mages are able to exist outside of time and be immune to the passage of time.
Spirits are unchanging and are the underlying shapes of all forces, matter, and life.
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #186
That sounds more like a type 1 Acausality stuff rather than being beyond causality and being unchangeable as a result, the Plato scan helps with one of the requirements but it doesn't really elaborate on who's in this unchangeable form, let alone if they're beyond causality as a result.
- 5,387
- 4,297
It is stated in the 2nd Novel that beings on his level transcend all causality, and all physical changes, though I can't add it to his profile since I'm still compiling scans.
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #188
If those are indeed connected then I can see type 5 Acausality.
- 16,006
- 8,253
I don't think unchanging is spelled out, but I think the supporting statement can work. It seems like the supporting statements could be enough, like Ultima said: https://vsbattles.com/threads/yeet-type-5-acausality-or-change-it-again.141846/page-2#post-5071644
I think the recent interpretation of Acausality type 5 comes from Ultima's comments.
Cause and effect aren't detected from its multiple actions related to instant death, which is from its nature as the end of everything that is also omnipresent. Characters who are familiar with causality can affect or negate it, saying its existence transcends things like causality when trying to revert changes from its nature; roughly in the same sentence, it is pointed out that it existed at the end of everything, which to credence things like causality meaningless to it. I do think Aio's statement could include causality given the supporting evidence and since she has Causality Manipulation as she can change events as she believes.
Mitsuki could revert changes made by a minor character who eats cause and effect in Raiza's fight, for instance, and the fact that a weaker tier character like Raiza could stop causality manipulation should give more credence to a nigh-omniscient CFE's statement about transcendence to cause and effect: https://gyazo.com/3a88f7e02f53b6e4d3baa133670c383a
From discussion with Overlord offline, Mitsuki's rest/causality manipulation couldn't reverse the effect of Yogiri Instant Death because it's beyond causality/has no cause or effect; Mitsuki should be 1-A since he sees everything in his world as dream/fiction, for reference, including Low 1-A characters like UEG.
So coupled with the fact that Instant Death has no cause and effect, one should logically think that instead of operating in another causality system, true form has no causality system bound to it because it is an absolute nonexistence entity portrayed in the narrative.
Edit:
I saw this point offline by Ultima; it may be unofficial since it is offline, but I think the premise is valid: https://gyazo.com/478d8afd056447ed92f713f04fc1ec75.
It could be reiterated that the end/Yogiri’s last key, is beyond the mechanism creating change, cause and effect/causality, on the level of the verse reality, so it is looks like acausality type 5 is valid.
I think the recent interpretation of Acausality type 5 comes from Ultima's comments.
Cause and effect aren't detected from its multiple actions related to instant death, which is from its nature as the end of everything that is also omnipresent. Characters who are familiar with causality can affect or negate it, saying its existence transcends things like causality when trying to revert changes from its nature; roughly in the same sentence, it is pointed out that it existed at the end of everything, which to credence things like causality meaningless to it. I do think Aio's statement could include causality given the supporting evidence and since she has Causality Manipulation as she can change events as she believes.
Mitsuki could revert changes made by a minor character who eats cause and effect in Raiza's fight, for instance, and the fact that a weaker tier character like Raiza could stop causality manipulation should give more credence to a nigh-omniscient CFE's statement about transcendence to cause and effect: https://gyazo.com/3a88f7e02f53b6e4d3baa133670c383a
From discussion with Overlord offline, Mitsuki's rest/causality manipulation couldn't reverse the effect of Yogiri Instant Death because it's beyond causality/has no cause or effect; Mitsuki should be 1-A since he sees everything in his world as dream/fiction, for reference, including Low 1-A characters like UEG.
- Even when the world was reset by Mitsuki, people killed by Yogiri didn't exist, and to some extent, their entire causality was erasure were erased as things or people associated with them became associated with others, which is a big plot point of Volume 12.
- Other:
- Great Sage Mitsuki's reset can erase people from existence, for context: https://gyazo.com/dd2f93e9b722db979e53c90aaf98048c
So coupled with the fact that Instant Death has no cause and effect, one should logically think that instead of operating in another causality system, true form has no causality system bound to it because it is an absolute nonexistence entity portrayed in the narrative.
Edit:
I saw this point offline by Ultima; it may be unofficial since it is offline, but I think the premise is valid: https://gyazo.com/478d8afd056447ed92f713f04fc1ec75.
It could be reiterated that the end/Yogiri’s last key, is beyond the mechanism creating change, cause and effect/causality, on the level of the verse reality, so it is looks like acausality type 5 is valid.
Last edited:
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #190
@Elizhaa Ultima’s comment in that thread was just about not being interactable. That’s not really something I was focusing on this entire thread, just any connections that the characters who are outside of causality are unaffected by any change in reality as a result.
omnipresence doesn’t really help nor harm type 5. It’s just a separate thing in of itself.
If I’m gonna be honest this sounds more like resistance to causality manipulation than type 5 Acausality.
omnipresence doesn’t really help nor harm type 5. It’s just a separate thing in of itself.
If I’m gonna be honest this sounds more like resistance to causality manipulation than type 5 Acausality.
- 12,802
- 5,930
does this dude still qualify
vsbattles.fandom.com
Yang Qi (Sage Monarch)
Yang Qi is the main character of the series Sage Monarch/Sheng Wang. A being who was never meant to be born. Being born as something that transcends fate on all levels of reality, he was broken into two pieces. One piece becoming a God, the other, manifesting as Yang Qi, a silk pants young...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Dragonite007
He/Him- 7,168
- 3,260
Calliope (Homestuck)
Calliope, also known by her screen name, uranianUmbra, is one of two Cherubs and is Caliborn's "sister". Tier: 8-B, likely 8-A | At least 2-A | 1-A Key: Base | God Tier/Alt Calliope | Alt Calliope (Epilogues) Name: Calliope, "uranianUmbra" (Screen Name) Origin: Homestuck Gender: Agender...
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 5,234
- 2,322
Homestuck in general doesn't qualify for type 5 anymore, bar First Guardian MSPA reader who has an argument for doing soCalliope (Homestuck)
Calliope, also known by her screen name, uranianUmbra, is one of two Cherubs and is Caliborn's "sister". Tier: 8-B, likely 8-A | At least 2-A | 1-A Key: Base | God Tier/Alt Calliope | Alt Calliope (Epilogues) Name: Calliope, "uranianUmbra" (Screen Name) Origin: Homestuck Gender: Agender...
Dragonite007
He/Him- 7,168
- 3,260
This guy?
MSPA Reader
MSPA Reader is the main character of Hiveswap Friendsim and Pesterquest as well as a minor character in Homestuck. They are a space explorer who crash landed on Alternia and is desperate for friendship. Tier: At least 9-B | At least 9-B, 1-A by creating "The Blackout" | 1-A | 1-A Key: Hiveswap...
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 5,234
- 2,322
His last key is what I'm talking about in specific hereThis guy?
MSPA Reader
MSPA Reader is the main character of Hiveswap Friendsim and Pesterquest as well as a minor character in Homestuck. They are a space explorer who crash landed on Alternia and is desperate for friendship. Tier: At least 9-B | At least 9-B, 1-A by creating "The Blackout" | 1-A | 1-A Key: Hiveswap...
It is that his last key had become one with the Green Sun, the largest source of narrative in homestuck, with the narrative being = to causality within the verse, eventually reaching the point of having become the totality of his story, while being beyond it and inside it. With said key entirely unaffected when the entire thing was erased, undoing it and then entirely locking it off from causation entirely, making it as though it didn't exist in the first place for the rest of the narrative.
His story includes a him who entirely transcends the horrorterrors which transcend an infinite hierarchy of creators and meta rivers which are literal narratives and fates, along with a him who exists unstuck in reality which allows him to remain entirely unfettered from changes to reality, the narrative, and time to a greater degree than the him which transcends the horrorterrors, and being able to freely create paradoxes which **** reality up to the level of the narrative and fine until everything is just eventually erased.
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #196
@deonment do you have any scans where it’s shown/stated narrative = causality in the verse?
@Robo432343 Nope, that’s just fate resistance, idk why that’s even type 5 in the first place.
@Robo432343 Nope, that’s just fate resistance, idk why that’s even type 5 in the first place.
- 5,234
- 2,322
Aight
Here and here
For the context of the latter, this is the protagonist currently within the largest mass of narrative in the multiverse and is currently attempting to assimilate it into his being to stop his entire story from becoming undone and conceptually unraveled.
The latter is from after he has assimilated the sun and grown to a scope greater than his story and all that is within it. What he is doing here is removing it from the rest of the narrative due to the blackout he created due to ******* with causality and creating a massive paradox in a previous key.
There is also just a bunch of context from within the verse such as the fact the retcon, which as implied by the name, works on a narrative level, allows the user to rewrite causality, along with the breath aspect being the concept of change even up to a metatextual level.
- 2,537
- 1,271
Yang Qi's Acausality (Type 5) blog is in the context of his fateless nature which is exists outside the river of fate and transcends it. In other words existing outside the timeline. As the blog says, only the Annulled can escape the fetters of fate. Additionally, the blog also has the Annulled realm beckon Yang Qi, because Fatelessness is the key to breaking through to the Annulled.
To add on to that blog, Lifeless and Destructionless doesn't interact with causality:
It is also implied you can't interact normally with it. Knowing he can't put up a defence or dodge, Yang Qi entered lifeless and destructionless to survive:
However, Yang Qi is just imitating that state of being, as Annulled are the truly lifelss and destructionless. Basically, the world is going to end (cosmology reset) and the Purrling believes becoming Annulled or 'truly Lifeless & Destructionless' is the key to escaping this fate:
And I believe the following should also be supporting evidence of lifeless and destructionless being unchangeable:
Sorry if it is a mess, this is kinda rushed.
To add on to that blog, Lifeless and Destructionless doesn't interact with causality:
It is also implied you can't interact normally with it. Knowing he can't put up a defence or dodge, Yang Qi entered lifeless and destructionless to survive:
However, Yang Qi is just imitating that state of being, as Annulled are the truly lifelss and destructionless. Basically, the world is going to end (cosmology reset) and the Purrling believes becoming Annulled or 'truly Lifeless & Destructionless' is the key to escaping this fate:
And the purrling is a being that exists separate from all types of causality (因果 = karma / cause and effect):
And I believe the following should also be supporting evidence of lifeless and destructionless being unchangeable:
Sorry if it is a mess, this is kinda rushed.
- 20,105
- 10,899
- Thread starter
- #199
@deonment I can kinda see type 5 there. I’ll add him to the list.
@Muchacho_mrm The text doesn’t really sound like it’s uninteractable, just that dodging or blocking it is very hard to do, and I’m not exactly seeing the whole “being unchangeable”, just sounds more like resetting everything back to square one
@Muchacho_mrm The text doesn’t really sound like it’s uninteractable, just that dodging or blocking it is very hard to do, and I’m not exactly seeing the whole “being unchangeable”, just sounds more like resetting everything back to square one
- 5,234
- 2,322
Oh yeah, for WoD, udl gave this explanation
Though if you want to get him to comment on a thread, it is like getting ultima to do so, you have to wait
- Status
Similar threads
