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Acausality Type 5 checklist

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ImmortalDread said:
You are aware of which new requirement we are talking about?
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Yep, and under those standards even three verses qualifies under solid, which is more enough to keep a type. And then two more qualify under possibly 5

Glass is holding us to those standards and five verses have qualified one way or another.
 
So you are telling me that those characters has explict statements of transcending all possible causality systems in their verse, where in fact, those who are not shown in the plot are still "transcended".

Then again, what make it different to omnipotence? This is definition of "absolute uninteractable".
 
ImmortalDread said:
So you are telling me that those characters has explict statements of transcending all possible causality systems in their verse, where in fact, those who are not shown in the plot are still "transcended".

Then again, what make it different to omnipotence? This is definition of "absolute uninteractable".
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Woman, it seems so, these standards actually have folks who qualify.

I don't know and I don't care, I'm only here to get Warhammer some form of type 5 and I've succeeded in that, complain to someone else please
 
I don't know mate, I have bad feeling that those can actually qualify, so let's see, a seperate thread to analyse them is preferrable.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This makes me think that you are actually not aware of which context we (Georr, Fuji and me) are talking about. Never mind it, then.
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No, I'm aware, and the thread is being held to the standards I saw Fuji claim nobody qualifies under when objectively multiple verses do
 
It is not her concern; rather, it is an unnecessary arbitrary requirement that lacks a logical justification, which in fact is opposite to the uninteractability imposed by everything12.

Merely having one staff member explain how things work does not establish the fact that this is how it should work with absolute accuracy. While the explanation was provided, it does not necessarily guarantee its complete validity.

Moreover, you should be aware that arbitrary requirements, especially those lacking universal reasoning agreed upon by all, tend to be non-convincing and practically unachievable without any justifiable cause. Additionally, you introduced an additional standard instead of the claim of aligning with an "existing unspoken rule".
 
Georredannea15 said:
When someone says "all cause and effect natures," please don't include all those goddamn "dimensional planes" because no one is talking about it. Qawsedf has explained this before, but if you still don't understand, that's your problem.
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Specifying all causal systems would include those of higher dimensions. That is a problem with the way you chose to write this new standard.
 
Georredannea15 said:
No, this is necessary and already exists, but we are trying to fix it as it is not listed on the Acausality page.
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No it isn't, nobody agrees with your thread, which is also just dead in the water at this point, and those standards have not been put in place
Georredannea15 said:
When someone says "all cause and effect natures," please don't include all those goddamn "dimensional planes" because no one is talking about it. Qawsedf has explained this before, but if you still don't understand, that's your problem.
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Qaw has not said that on the thread, what qaw said is that type 5 is only accepted to work up to where its feats go
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Specifying all causal systems would include those of higher dimensions. That is a problem with the way you chose to write this new standard.
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All causal systems simply mean all causal systems in that dimensional plane. No one is adding or messing with all the dimensional systems. God... why is everyone trying so hard not to understand something?
 
ImmortalDread said:
It is not her concern; rather, it is an unnecessary arbitrary requirement that lacks a logical justification, which in fact is opposite to the uninteractability imposed by everything12.

Merely having one staff member explain how things work does not establish the fact that this is how it should work with absolute accuracy. While the explanation was provided, it does not necessarily guarantee its complete validity.

Moreover, you should be aware that arbitrary requirements, especially those lacking universal reasoning agreed upon by all, tend to be non-convincing and practically unachievable without any justifiable cause. Additionally, you introduced an additional standard instead of the claim of aligning with an "existing unspoken rule".
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This is exactly what it requires. Then there shouldn't be any goddamn difference between Type 4 and Type 5.
 
The current standards show a significant difference between these two. You are simply introducing a rejected standard. That's it.

Also, why are you calling Fuji and others stupid for not understanding? The term 'all' is meant to have no limits in its definition. You cannot impose a limitation and expect us to accept it. This is English.
 
deonment said:
Qaw has not said that on the thread, what qaw said is that type 5 is only accepted to work up to where its feats go
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Actually, Qaw agreed with the OP. But no more input is coming. I guess we opened it at the wrong time because the Low 1-A wiki and Marvel discussions are still going on.
 
ImmortalDread said:
The current standards show a significant difference between these two. You are simply introducing a rejected standard. That's it.
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I'm not promoting a rejected standard huh. When someone say "all cause-effect systems/natures", you all think of "causality systems existing on all dimensional planes". But what I and Qaw are saying is just to being outside the all cause-effect systems in their dimensional plane. I think this is the part you misunderstood.
ImmortalDread said:
Also, why are you calling Fuji and others stupid for not understanding? The term 'all' is meant to have no limits in its definition. You cannot impose a limitation and expect us to accept it. This is English.
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Huh what? I didn't call any of them stupid. I just said they didn't want to understand it, unfortunately the two do not mean the same thing.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I'm not promoting a rejected standard huh. When someone say "all cause-effect systems/natures", you all think of "causality systems existing on all dimensional planes". But what I and Qaw are saying is just to being outside the all cause-effect systems in their dimensional plane. I think this is the part you misunderstood.
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You are, read my six pages thread about it. I totally did not misunderstand it.
 
@ImmortalDread I seriously wanna know what part of Elizhaa's comments is an admin contesting against the standards for type 5? Elizhaa's only responding to the Instant Death stuff, not the standards as a whole. Also why make a separate thread when this to evaluate who qualifies for type 5 when this thread exists? If you're not going to add anything to the conversation beyond derailment I will be deleting comments.

@ActuallySpaceMan42 So if I'm getting this right, these particular beings are frozen and is unable to be harmed, and another character has to make an avatar to harm them due to his true form transcending space and time. Is there anything regarding the transcending character being beyond causality as a result of not being bound by this constant change? Because if that exists I can see type 5.

@Georredannea15 stop derailing my thread with this "beyond all forms of cause and effect systems" nonsense, nothing about type 5 has remotely said that. If I see this one more time I'm deleting your comments, and if you keep this up I will report you for derailing the thread.

@DaReaperMan I'm still waiting for a couple scans on SCP stuff, as for WoD I'm not getting much of a response from Udl so if there's no one that can back up type 5 I'll just check it off as unqualified.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Georredannea15 stop derailing my thread with this "beyond all forms of cause and effect systems" nonsense, nothing about type 5 has remotely said that. If I see this one more time I'm deleting your comments, and if you keep this up I will report you for derailing the thread.
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I have already said that I don't want to talk here in order not to go off the rails, but they kept insisting on answering, and if you want to report me, you are free, and I am sure that this is said for Type 5, and if you have a problem, say them in the my revision.
 
Theglassman12 said:
as for WoD I'm not getting much of a response from Udl so if there's no one that can back up type 5 I'll just check it off as unqualified.
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Dunno if this counts but mages are able to exist outside of time and be immune to the passage of time.
Spirits are unchanging and are the underlying shapes of all forces, matter, and life.
 
That sounds more like a type 1 Acausality stuff rather than being beyond causality and being unchangeable as a result, the Plato scan helps with one of the requirements but it doesn't really elaborate on who's in this unchangeable form, let alone if they're beyond causality as a result.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@ActuallySpaceMan42 So if I'm getting this right, these particular beings are frozen and is unable to be harmed, and another character has to make an avatar to harm them due to his true form transcending space and time. Is there anything regarding the transcending character being beyond causality as a result of not being bound by this constant change? Because if that exists I can see type 5.
Click to expand...
It is stated in the 2nd Novel that beings on his level transcend all causality, and all physical changes, though I can't add it to his profile since I'm still compiling scans.
Transcending all physical changes, even the eternity of end.
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Transcending all causality and concepts, even the absolutes of probabilities.
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I don't think unchanging is spelled out, but I think the supporting statement can work. It seems like the supporting statements could be enough, like Ultima said: https://vsbattles.com/threads/yeet-type-5-acausality-or-change-it-again.141846/page-2#post-5071644
I think the recent interpretation of Acausality type 5 comes from Ultima's comments.

Cause and effect aren't detected from its multiple actions related to instant death, which is from its nature as the end of everything that is also omnipresent. Characters who are familiar with causality can affect or negate it, saying its existence transcends things like causality when trying to revert changes from its nature; roughly in the same sentence, it is pointed out that it existed at the end of everything, which to credence things like causality meaningless to it. I do think Aio's statement could include causality given the supporting evidence and since she has Causality Manipulation as she can change events as she believes.

Mitsuki could revert changes made by a minor character who eats cause and effect in Raiza's fight, for instance, and the fact that a weaker tier character like Raiza could stop causality manipulation should give more credence to a nigh-omniscient CFE's statement about transcendence to cause and effect: https://gyazo.com/3a88f7e02f53b6e4d3baa133670c383a

From discussion with Overlord offline, Mitsuki's rest/causality manipulation couldn't reverse the effect of Yogiri Instant Death because it's beyond causality/has no cause or effect; Mitsuki should be 1-A since he sees everything in his world as dream/fiction, for reference, including Low 1-A characters like UEG.

So coupled with the fact that Instant Death has no cause and effect, one should logically think that instead of operating in another causality system, true form has no causality system bound to it because it is an absolute nonexistence entity portrayed in the narrative.

Edit:
I saw this point offline by Ultima; it may be unofficial since it is offline, but I think the premise is valid: https://gyazo.com/478d8afd056447ed92f713f04fc1ec75.

It could be reiterated that the end/Yogiri’s last key, is beyond the mechanism creating change, cause and effect/causality, on the level of the verse reality, so it is looks like acausality type 5 is valid.
 
Last edited:
@Elizhaa Ultima’s comment in that thread was just about not being interactable. That’s not really something I was focusing on this entire thread, just any connections that the characters who are outside of causality are unaffected by any change in reality as a result.

omnipresence doesn’t really help nor harm type 5. It’s just a separate thing in of itself.

If I’m gonna be honest this sounds more like resistance to causality manipulation than type 5 Acausality.
 
does this dude still qualify
vsbattles.fandom.com

Yang Qi (Sage Monarch)

“I'm not worried about ending the fight in mutual destruction”, the calm Yang Qi said.“What joy be there in life? What bitterness be there in death? You listen to me. I rose from the impure lands, step by step. Starting from the Energy Arts level, I proceeded through Lifeseizing, Legendary...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Calliope (Homestuck)

Calliope, also known by her screen name, uranianUmbra, is one of two Cherubs and is Caliborn's "sister". Tier: 8-B, likely 8-A | At least 2-A | 1-A Key: Base | God Tier/Alt Calliope | Alt Calliope (Epilogues) Name: Calliope, "uranianUmbra" (Screen Name) Origin: Homestuck Gender: Agender...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Dragonite007 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Calliope (Homestuck)

Calliope, also known by her screen name, uranianUmbra, is one of two Cherubs and is Caliborn's "sister". Tier: 8-B, likely 8-A | At least 2-A | 1-A Key: Base | God Tier/Alt Calliope | Alt Calliope (Epilogues) Name: Calliope, "uranianUmbra" (Screen Name) Origin: Homestuck Gender: Agender...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Homestuck in general doesn't qualify for type 5 anymore, bar First Guardian MSPA reader who has an argument for doing so
 
deonment said:
Homestuck in general doesn't qualify for type 5 anymore, bar First Guardian MSPA reader who has an argument for doing so
Click to expand...
This guy?
vsbattles.fandom.com

MSPA Reader

You've found your river, and you're going to see where it leads. MSPA Reader is the main character of Hiveswap Friendsim and Pesterquest as well as a minor character in Homestuck. They are a space explorer who crash landed on Alternia and is desperate for friendship. Tier: At least 9-B | At...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Dragonite007 said:
This guy?
vsbattles.fandom.com

MSPA Reader

You've found your river, and you're going to see where it leads. MSPA Reader is the main character of Hiveswap Friendsim and Pesterquest as well as a minor character in Homestuck. They are a space explorer who crash landed on Alternia and is desperate for friendship. Tier: At least 9-B | At...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
His last key is what I'm talking about in specific here
It is that his last key had become one with the Green Sun, the largest source of narrative in homestuck, with the narrative being = to causality within the verse, eventually reaching the point of having become the totality of his story, while being beyond it and inside it. With said key entirely unaffected when the entire thing was erased, undoing it and then entirely locking it off from causation entirely, making it as though it didn't exist in the first place for the rest of the narrative.
His story includes a him who entirely transcends the horrorterrors which transcend an infinite hierarchy of creators and meta rivers which are literal narratives and fates, along with a him who exists unstuck in reality which allows him to remain entirely unfettered from changes to reality, the narrative, and time to a greater degree than the him which transcends the horrorterrors, and being able to freely create paradoxes which **** reality up to the level of the narrative and fine until everything is just eventually erased.
 
@deonment do you have any scans where it’s shown/stated narrative = causality in the verse?

@Robo432343 Nope, that’s just fate resistance, idk why that’s even type 5 in the first place.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@deonment do you have any scans where it’s shown/stated narrative = causality in the verse?
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Aight
Here and here
For the context of the latter, this is the protagonist currently within the largest mass of narrative in the multiverse and is currently attempting to assimilate it into his being to stop his entire story from becoming undone and conceptually unraveled.
The latter is from after he has assimilated the sun and grown to a scope greater than his story and all that is within it. What he is doing here is removing it from the rest of the narrative due to the blackout he created due to ******* with causality and creating a massive paradox in a previous key.
There is also just a bunch of context from within the verse such as the fact the retcon, which as implied by the name, works on a narrative level, allows the user to rewrite causality, along with the breath aspect being the concept of change even up to a metatextual level.
 
Yang Qi's Acausality (Type 5) blog is in the context of his fateless nature which is exists outside the river of fate and transcends it. In other words existing outside the timeline. As the blog says, only the Annulled can escape the fetters of fate. Additionally, the blog also has the Annulled realm beckon Yang Qi, because Fatelessness is the key to breaking through to the Annulled.

To add on to that blog, Lifeless and Destructionless doesn't interact with causality:

In fact, Yang Qi quickly drew on King Life-Killer’s sword technique, causing another rain of swords to appear, the kind that could bring nirvanic extermination to all living things, and summon that which was lifeless and destructionless from the void, neither touching nor stirring the chains of cause and effect.
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It is also implied you can't interact normally with it. Knowing he can't put up a defence or dodge, Yang Qi entered lifeless and destructionless to survive:

The sword was moving with indescribable quickness, such that it seemed impossible to stop. In fact, Yang Qi knew that trying to block or dodge would be stupid. All of a sudden, a smile appeared on his face as he seemingly entered a lifeless and destructionless state.

The unblockable sword headed toward his throat, intent on taking his life. Defensive moves were pointless. The Lord of the Sword Dao was going all out.

However, in the moment that it seemed Yang Qi would be cut down, he suddenly vanished. More specifically, he disappeared into the Lord of the Sword Dao’s sword.
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However, Yang Qi is just imitating that state of being, as Annulled are the truly lifelss and destructionless. Basically, the world is going to end (cosmology reset) and the Purrling believes becoming Annulled or 'truly Lifeless & Destructionless' is the key to escaping this fate:
“You should just surrender, human. You haven’t taken the final step, and you can’t beat me in a fight. Not that I'm interested in fighting. I’m with Yang Qi here. He has a unique fate, and I suspect that he might be able to survive the destruction of the god world. I’ve seen some signs of the trajectory of his fate, and the fact that he’s combined the God Legion Seal, the Mahātmā Jade, and numerous other magical treasures just goes to show that he's very unique. I might even need his help to fully transcend my own fate, and become truly lifeless and destructionless.”
Click to expand...
And the purrling is a being that exists separate from all types of causality (因果 = karma / cause and effect):

“That’s right. You know as well as I that your empire is just too big. It has too much of a negative influence on my development. Because of it, I can't get all the resources I need. Your friends and family steal my resources. Furthermore, you have that purrling there with you. It's a unique entity that exists separate from all types of karma/cause and effect. I need to devour it as well. It's a tradeoff. You get the Great Necropolis, but I kill everyone. We’ll be the only two beings left. That's what it means to transcend. No third living being can be left alive.”
Click to expand...

And I believe the following should also be supporting evidence of lifeless and destructionless being unchangeable:

King Life-Killer’s name was very specific. He wasn’t King Killer, but rather, King Life-Killer. He believed that all living entities experienced the bitterness of suffering. In fact, he believed that on a person’s face, the eyebrows and eyes were the character 艹 and the nose and mouth were 古. Put them together, and it created the character for suffering 苦. The only way to be free from suffering was to exterminate life. Ending life resulted in that which was lifeless and destructionless. Only then would the world not give birth to suffering. Return everything to the starting point, cause all heaven and earth to go silent, prevent all growth, and send the universe back to a single point. That was life-killing. Lifeless and destructionless.
Click to expand...

Sorry if it is a mess, this is kinda rushed.
 
@deonment I can kinda see type 5 there. I’ll add him to the list.

@Muchacho_mrm The text doesn’t really sound like it’s uninteractable, just that dodging or blocking it is very hard to do, and I’m not exactly seeing the whole “being unchangeable”, just sounds more like resetting everything back to square one
 
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