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Ki amps you physically, so yes there is.
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About the Kienzan
- Thread starter BOEGVELD
- Start date
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- Tags
- goku krillin solar flare
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- 3,451
- 1,071
You clearly missed what I meant. And it's off topic anyway.
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So because he did a focused ki blast in his hand, his physicals went up? What?
It's obviously Ki based, but using a Kamehameha doesn't amp you at all, it's still YOUR KI so it's the same signal. Condensed ki > the ki just flowing in your body, that's the whole point of these attacks.
It's obviously Ki based, but using a Kamehameha doesn't amp you at all, it's still YOUR KI so it's the same signal. Condensed ki > the ki just flowing in your body, that's the whole point of these attacks.
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Yes, when you focus your ki, you get stronger until you throw said focused ki toward the ennemy, congrats, you understood the basics of power ups in DB.
Scouters don't perceive 'signals', it perceive energy sources and if Radditz's scouter said Goku and Piccolo's PL went up, then it went up, simple as that.
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No, the overall signal is stronger because the attack itself is a focused attack, it's stronger than you normally because you're not a focused ball of Ki. You're you.
If their PL went up overall because of it, you're saying they got stronger, faster, and more durable from that.
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You are a ball of focused ki, your whole body is full of ki all the time and you getting into 'battle mode' is just focusing your ki throughout your body.
There is no 'muh signal', there's just the scouter seeing energy directly and calculating it, that's it.
I'm not saying it, the manga is saying it. That's what is said and shown. Otherwise how do you explain Vegeta was not vaporized after losing the beam clash with Goku?
And once again, it's off-topic and doesn't change that Krillin's PL doesn't jump millions of time when he use his kienzan so comparing it to any other ki attack is nonsense.
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No, ki just flows through your body. You're not a Kamehameha. Wanna explain why people specifically condense their ki for that if not? That focusing of your ki is what physically amps you.
Ok, it gets a condensed, stronger signal from you because you're condensing your ki together for a stronger attack that is specifically stronger than your physicals.
That's just an interpretation.
- 6,135
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Dragomer is correct......even if you are exclusively only able to amp yourself for an attack...you are still raising your power lvl in your entirety.....that is why you are able to handle the recoil of your own attack.
Its a temporary amp....but a full amp nonetheless.....not limited to small parts of your body or singular ki techniques.
Its a temporary amp....but a full amp nonetheless.....not limited to small parts of your body or singular ki techniques.
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But the Kamehameha isn't recoiling onto him? what lmao? It's like saying throwing a rock somehow recoils onto you, it doesn't.
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It doesn't, not in the sense you mean, it's not ******* chackra.
There is no difference between what constitute a kamehameha and your normal ki until you launch it.
That sentence doesn't even make sense.
Once again, no signal, try again. That's what the scouter measure.
It's stronger than your 'normal' physical but it's the same as when you power up for the attack, even the guide outright say Goku's PL get higher when he use the kamehameha.
No, that's blatant canon info supported by guides and every statement ever made in the franchise.
Now you can stop derailing the thread.
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Technically it does....thats why you experience a body jerk...your muscles spread out the energy and neutralise it....but it happens.
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Vegeta literaly ate his own galick gun back in his own face, buddy.
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Other than it being a focused attack?? Are you saying that the Makansappo makes Piccolo stronger when he launches it because his PL went up?
Why are people condensing their ki for attacks if they can just focus their Ki physically and output the same strength?
Same energy, same signal + condensed power, so it's higher.
Ok, his overall energy is stronger because his power is focused.
Where is that interpretation supported by anything??
It's not derailing. The topic overlaps with other things, so obviously those other things need to be discussed.
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Also "focusing of ki" is more so moulding the shape of your attack....like making a thin beam or ball or elliptical disc or whatever or even a disc...its just shaping it.
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K, so you're saying they can output an equal amount of force with their physicals if they try since the attacks are just shaping their ki? Wanna explain to me why on earth they actually do those attacks then if it's nothing but shaping it to look cool?
- 6,135
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Well duh....
1)it takes charging time....
2)its sort of a limit breaker so it is taxing to pull of...hence temporary.
3) techniques hold some sort of tactical advantage in any situation which eclipses the use of physicals...thats why they are used in the first place.
Juat because 2 actions happen simultaneously does not mean one is cause and other is the effect.
They charge themselves up and create the attack to launch it...that simple.
1)it takes charging time....
2)its sort of a limit breaker so it is taxing to pull of...hence temporary.
3) techniques hold some sort of tactical advantage in any situation which eclipses the use of physicals...thats why they are used in the first place.
Juat because 2 actions happen simultaneously does not mean one is cause and other is the effect.
They charge themselves up and create the attack to launch it...that simple.
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So they need to charge and focus/condense their Ki to do it, which is in turn stronger? So they can't just do that with their fists, because if they could they wouldn't have to do that with Ki blasts?
Thanks for telling me i'm right.
Thanks for telling me i'm right.
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You misinterpreted......they don't do it for physicals out of choice not inability.
Amping up and blasting a ki technique is more advantageous than a amping up and kicking and punching.
Amping up and blasting a ki technique is more advantageous than a amping up and kicking and punching.
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Ok, but why? Why is that the better option? Like you said, it's taxing and tiring to do it, but if they just amped their physicals it wouldn't be because it's amping everything.
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Simple techniques are more economical and tactical....
You cannot vaporise your opponent with punch or kick.....you don't have area of effect....range is also a admittedly short.
Why waste your time and energy on punhes and kicks when a humongous beam, bomb, or thin laser can yield better results.
You cannot vaporise your opponent with punch or kick.....you don't have area of effect....range is also a admittedly short.
Why waste your time and energy on punhes and kicks when a humongous beam, bomb, or thin laser can yield better results.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,184
- 14,491
Nope, you still haven't debunk my second point yet, if Kienzan is Dura Neg, it will cut-clean through Goku casual Ki blast when they spar on rooftop
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But if you output the same level of force, like you're arguing then a simpler punch would be more effective.
Range is irrelevant. Amping yourself with ki amps your speed too.
Why waste your energy on a giant beam when you could just blitz and kill them with a single punch?
Range is irrelevant. Amping yourself with ki amps your speed too.
Why waste your energy on a giant beam when you could just blitz and kill them with a single punch?
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Buddy why they don't rely on physicals is something even I have wondered....
Like 10X Kamehameha, Final Flash etc....all these stuff they amp themselves and through out the attacks...like all these stuff works like Kaio Ken...then Why they don't rely of punching or kicking??
I am just using what I have to logically explain it.
Sadly they don't provide us with any instance of such temporary amp being used physically.
For other of your arguements...
Amping in such cases is always done to match themselves to stronger opponents.....so punch or such won't do much...better invest in Ki techniques.
As for range , well you can just flip the arguement and ask why use Ki blasts at all in any situation whatsoever. You tell me.
Also the amp can be purely strength based....so thats ....well I am not sure here on that particular point...
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But they can just amp themselves to do the same damage like you're arguing. If a punch won't do as much, then the Ki attack is stronger, and you've proven me right.
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
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There is literally no assumption made when Kienzan is seen as a threat to stronger opponents who literally take Krillin other attacks as joke.Examples being Nappa,Vegeta and Frieza.It doesn't have to always charge up in order to increase you know and talking about reaction,yes Vegeta does when he tells Nappa to dodge the attack when Nappa thinking that its a weak attack because it comes from Krillin,fact Frieza chooses to dodge Kienzan even though he cant sense power level is more of a evidence that it has higher AP.They do because Piccolo's PL is measured as increasing in scouters
More AP than just small spirit bomb created by Goku which isn't so ridiculous.Big spirit bomb is much more powerful as it damaged 4th form Freiza while Kienzan just was going to hurt 2nd form Freiza.
Again why does it being Toei anime makes it non usable when Kienzan literally operates the same in anime as it does in manga.This literally just supports Jiren punching and holding Kienzan proving that Kienzan operates the same way in anime as it does in manga.
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Uuhh I am pretty sure I was emphasizing secondary effects are what compels them to be utilized over punches
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
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Literally the arguments used for durability negation is same as arguments used for AP increase but with more assumption...
I am literally not seeing a single example as to how it operates like hax and just straight up ignore durability.If it ignores durability then why doesn't Jiren get hurt by Kienzan? Why does he so casually hold the blade and throws it back? Please dont tell me Jiren has resistance to durability negation or nonsense like that because thats just further making up stuffs
I am literally not seeing a single example as to how it operates like hax and just straight up ignore durability.If it ignores durability then why doesn't Jiren get hurt by Kienzan? Why does he so casually hold the blade and throws it back? Please dont tell me Jiren has resistance to durability negation or nonsense like that because thats just further making up stuffs
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The secondary effects wouldn't be necessary though. What's the point of range if you can just amp yourself to be that much faster and stronger?
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If kienzan was durability negation, shouldnt the characters only use it instead of others ki based attacks?
- 6,135
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Wut??
That "small spirit bomb" had same effect as KK4 Kamehameha....if not more....
And that Big Spirit Bomb was made by Goku who could somewhat match 50%Frieza with 20XKK amp....they are not that far...so even here Kienzan should have had "more AP" according your logic thus more useful according your logic.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,184
- 14,491
I already ask, and Kienzan supporters said that it is because DB plot
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So you need to make the assumption they don't do it because plot in order to make it work, when Occam's Razor leads you to go down the route of least assumption, meaning it's just piercing damage OwO
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Well to answer more seriously....
Usually the superior characters are faster anyways so dodging Kienzan is not an issue.
People like Cell and Buu have uber lvl regen that renders the dura neg useless.....its as useless as slicing through air or water.
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So why do they use em against people they know don't have that bullshittery regen
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Vegeta was smart from getgo and dodged it whenever thrown....
Frieza got cut learned his lesson and dodged whenever thrown...
Jiren is Jiren....so....
No other examples besides that...
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Ok but like, what's the point of using it if they can do the same damage with their fists?
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You are the one assuming AP for Kienzan not me......soooooo
You answer me why not punch instead of Kienzan
You answer me why not punch instead of Kienzan
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You're the one assuming they can do equal damage. You're also assuming durability negation.
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