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About the Kienzan

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Kienzan at times have shown to be blocked by stronger opponent even in anime where it behaves like the same

Example
DBZ anime
Perfect Cell tanking Kienzan and being unfazed
SSJ2 Gohan tanking the 2 Kienzans from Perfect Cell while everyone was surprised he could block it

DBS anime
Jiren catches Kienzan and even throws it back at Goku

I can show you evidence for this,if required.


And for those who are saying its durablity negation,it can just simply have much higher AP than the users
 
Havok said:
Gonna be honest there's a lot of addition for Dragon Ball in people have just drop them lmao.
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Yeah , with how much there are rn nobody seems to bother with them anymore , that's why i think we should wait
Havok said:
Does this matter? When we are talking about piecing damage effecting higher characters.

This would just support the disk durability negation
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I was just making a joke lol
Havok said:
Lmao the only Canon anime is Super. Why do people keep using Toei
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I have no idea , gohan didn't even tank it , he just blocked it from the sides like jiren did
 
CR_Catinho said:
They both deal piercing damage , if that's how it works then vegeta would've noticed a rise in krillin's PL as he was charging it just like the makankosappo , but no it just negs durability, it's a property of the technique , plain and simple
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I mean the piercing part wouldn’t be accounted for in their power. Makankosappo is more power + piercing damage, the ki increase is only for having more power.
 
You probably bring up a good point with the death beam though, although the Goku that tanked it is treated as much stronger than first form Frieza.
 
Hmm, that doesn't make sense though. Like it should literally work like a Kienzan, so also dura neg if Kienzan were to get it. The only thing I could think off if it were not as sharp as a Kienzan and thus deals less piercing damage.
 
Greenshifter said:
Hmm, that doesn't make sense though. Like it should literally work like a Kienzan, so also dura neg if Kienzan were to get it. The only thing I could think off if it were not as sharp as a Kienzan and thus deals less piercing damage.
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What doesn't make sense?
 
Greenshifter said:
Hmm, that doesn't make sense though. Like it should literally work like a Kienzan, so also dura neg if Kienzan were to get it. The only thing I could think off if it were not as sharp as a Kienzan and thus deals less piercing damage.
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it would just mean that the energy swords = piercing damage while the kienzan just straight up ignores durability , it's as easy as that , some swords have even less surface area than the kienzan .

you never see a DB character pulling a ki sword on sm1 massively stronger then them thinking it'll work , unlike the kienzan
 
Ki swords or normal swords infused with Ki....are just that ...slashing damage....and all of this is just shrugged off by even slightly stronger enemies like swatting away flies.

But Keinzan is special because it is consistently used by weaker characters to damage characters way stronger than them when they have no hope of any other technique whether blunt force trauma or piercing trauma. And it shows positive feats of damage on characters or show those powerful characters avoiding kienzan like Black Plague.

This warrants some recognition atleast.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Ki swords or normal swords infused with Ki....are just that ...slashing damage....and all of this is just shrugged off by even slightly stronger enemies like swatting away flies.

But Keinzan is special because it is consistently used by weaker characters to damage characters way stronger than them when they have no hope of any other technique whether blunt force trauma or piercing trauma. And it shows positive feats of damage on characters or show those powerful characters avoiding kienzan like Black Plague.

This warrants some recognition atleast.
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absolutelty
 
CR_Catinho said:
it would just mean that the energy swords = piercing damage while the kienzan just straight up ignores durability , it's as easy as that , some swords have even less surface area than the kienzan .

you never see a DB character pulling a ki sword on sm1 massively stronger then them thinking it'll work , unlike the kienzan
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Exactly. The series treats it like Durability Negation
 
Havok said:
Lmao the only Canon anime is Super. Why do people keep using Toei
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Because Kienzan doesn't magically behave differently just because its Toei verse
CR_Catinho said:
I have no idea , gohan didn't even tank it , he just blocked it from the sides like jiren did
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Tanking isn't the right word my bad.He blocked it.Yes he blocked Kienzan sides and Jiren reflected or blocked the sides.He even held it and threw it back.Not sure how that suppose to prove anything though

Also no one has yet to answer why it couldn't be this instead of being durability negation?
My_area said:
And for those who are saying its durablity negation,it can just simply have much higher AP than the users
Click to expand...
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Because contextually it isn't treated as one....power lvl has never been associated with it as other moves have been....
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How can you say for sure it isn't treated as one? You can make same amount of arguments for higher AP as you can for limited durability negation.Also yeah sure it wasn't given a power level which wouldn't mean we cant infer that it has one though
 
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Then i still don't know why Goku and Krillin just spam it whenever a battle take place to Dura Neg the hell out of their opponents
 
My_area said:
Because Kienzan doesn't magically behave differently just because its Toei verse

Tanking isn't the right word my bad.He blocked it.Yes he blocked Kienzan sides and Jiren reflected or blocked the sides.He even held it and threw it back.Not sure how that suppose to prove anything though

Also no one has yet to answer why it couldn't be this instead of being durability negation?
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Yeah.... Toei is still non cannon.

"Reflected" he punched it lol

Because it's never been treated that way. The difference between Frieza and Krillin is in the millions no character has mention a increase in power while using it or from another character using it.
 
Havok said:
Yeah.... Toei is still non cannon.

"Reflected" he punched it lol

Because it's never been treated that way. The difference between Frieza and Krillin is in the millions no character has mention a increase in power while using it or from another character using it.
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Toei being non canon doesn't mean Kiezan starts functioning differently

Alright punched it,how does it prove anything though.

The amount of proof you have that its durability negation is same as amount of proofs I have that its just a higher AP attack lol.The fact Vegeta told Nappa to dodge Kienzan while Nappa was confident he could take it(due to his experience with stomping Krillin) or Frieza dodging Kienzan giving us indication that it can have high AP instead of just durability negation.No one said it negates durability either so that point doesn't make sense
 
My_area said:
Toei being non canon doesn't mean Kiezan starts functioning differently

Alright punched it,how does it prove anything though.

The amount of proof you have that its durability negation is same as amount of proofs I have that its just a higher AP attack lol.The fact Vegeta told Nappa to dodge Kienzan while Nappa was confident he could take it(due to his experience with stomping Krillin) or Frieza dodging Kienzan giving us indication that it can have high AP instead of just durability negation.No one said it negates durability either so that point doesn't make sense
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Remember Saiyan Saga Vegeta cannot sense power lvls....so he was clearly afraid of Destructo Disc purely off of its uniqueness at that point.

Even in Oozaru from Vegeta takes conscious effort to dodge them....especially considering Vegeta>>>Nappa...and Oozaru has a 10x multiplier on top of that.
 
My_area said:
Toei being non canon doesn't mean Kiezan starts functioning differently

Alright punched it,how does it prove anything though.

The amount of proof you have that its durability negation is same as amount of proofs I have that its just a higher AP attack lol.The fact Vegeta told Nappa to dodge Kienzan while Nappa was confident he could take it(due to his experience with stomping Krillin) or Frieza dodging Kienzan giving us indication that it can have high AP instead of just durability negation.No one said it negates durability either so that point doesn't make sense
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Toei being non cannon means you can't use it. We don't use non cannon to support cannon. In less you wanna give Gogeta Blue soul manipulation.

Meaning it didn't effect him.

None of tho's actually give proof of AP rising
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Remember Saiyan Saga Vegeta cannot sense power lvls....so he was clearly afraid of Destructo Disc purely off of its uniqueness at that point.

Even in Oozaru from Vegeta takes conscious effort to dodge them....especially considering Vegeta>>>Nappa...and Oozaru has a 10x multiplier on top of that.
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Yes and he jumps from it which either suggests he was too afraid to tank it or he just didn't want to take the damage
Havok said:
Toei being non cannon means you can't use it. We don't use non cannon to support cannon. In less you wanna give Gogeta Blue soul manipulation.

Meaning it didn't effect him.

None of tho's actually give proof of AP rising
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I can because Kienzan still works the same as it does in the manga,it has the same scenes as the manga.No reason why Kienzan would work differently just because its "non canon".I know that,but we can if the abilites functions is basically the same thing.Gogeta start dust attack is different than in Fusion Reborn so your example doesn't work

And? When did I say it did.It literally supports my point

It does,the fact the stronger opponents(Nappa,Vegeta,Frieza) has to dodge means that its much stronger than Krillin.Same evidence you use for durability negation can be used for AP increase
 
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