About GER's range

[Chariot190]

I agree with worlds being universes
I just don't agree with GER scaling to them Because GER doesn't affect the entirey of said worlds it's just a byproduct of GER making someone's death 0

GER doesn't scale to them. RTZ scales to them though, because it's the reason why Diavolo is being sent through them in the first place, and is able to continue to do so from worlds away.

This isn't ACT4, some metaphysical apparition of RTZ isn't following right behind Diavolo at all times.

 

[Zencha9]

IIRC GER was actually affecting Diavolo's death in multiple worlds, also even if it's a byproduct it's GER doing it.

I know but that doesn't translate to GER having multiversal range he's affecting his death turning it into zero not affecting the entire space/time diavolo is on

 

[Cloozuma]

I know but that doesn't translate to GER having multiversal range he's affecting his death turning it into zero not affecting the entire space/time diavolo is on

Yeah ig, though RTZ does scale to it

 

[Cloozuma]

So Ig it's Two Meters For GER, Low Multi (Could capture Diavolo in a cycle of infinite deaths across what seem to be parallel worlds), likely Multi for RTZ (Said worlds were stated to be infinite).

 

[Chariot190]

I know but that doesn't translate to GER having multiversal range he's affecting his death turning it into zero not affecting the entire space/time diavolo is on

No, but what it is, is being able to effect a target from able to effect a target from a low multiversal distance away.
It's also being able to continuously BFR a target at a range.

Plus coupled with his known Uni range feat a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶'̶s̶ ̶A̶O̶E̶ ̶i̶s̶,̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶R̶T̶Z̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶l̶i̶c̶i̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶n̶e̶g̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶2̶0̶1̶3̶.̶

I don't really see the issue here, all we need to do is clarify what that Low Multi range entails, the AOE, and etc. It's simply a matter of clarification and specification on why and what is that range.

But I guess we're arguing that parallel worlds aren't actually parallel worlds but rather pocket dimensions of arbitrary size even though we know for a fact that parallel worlds in JoJo, at least these types, are just alternate dimensions with little variance. **** the fact that we have over 50 volumes that take place in an alternate world and like 10 volumes and a main villain who's dedicated to showing that the verse works on a infinite cosmology with infinite parallel worlds neighboring each other side by side ad infinitum, with the sole intent of going "hey my ability is going to universes that are like this one, but with just a tiny variance", isn't enough.

Anyway off work, pulling out guide.

 

[Zencha9]

@Chariot190
Yeah i agree with you that it affects targets from alternate worlds away
And this crt is clarify that

 

[Eficiente]

I never said that the word "world" means universes already, it's just that Valentine and D4C already have proof that worlds in JoJo means Universes. Heck even HA DIO's profile even supported that him ruling the world means ruling the universe.

Bad text comprehension, I didn't say you said that but that those reasons do not apply and that you should not try to invent things here. HA DIO's profile doesn't support that.

Are you really going to say that the parallel worlds that for all intents and purposes are 100% identical with slight variations, are actually some arbitrary made up number and aren't actually alternate realities, in the same verse that explicitly has infinite worlds lined up side by side ad infinitum?
You're right Efi, those aren't the same realities, they're just a different set of the literal infinite universe sized realities that exist.

Like come the **** on Efi, use common sense, we aren't talking about something like Cream or Overheaven, it's literally just a parallel world, and we know exactly what that entails.

Those had a very specific gimmick to them as they are based on the "SBR universe" and take that as the main whatever and the other universes are based on it (aside from only being accessed via D4C), the og timeline in JoJo didn't have this, it's not based on the SBR universe, some unknown place someone's sent by vague powers should not be the same as those universes.

It might be "something like Cream" in the sense that it's a gimmick done due to 1 Stand, since we don't know anything about that weird place GER sends others into then we don't know if they're universes. Cream isn't creating his dark dimension and that isn't universe-sized.

 

[Chariot190]

Those had a very specific gimmick to them as they are based on the "SBR universe" and take that as the main whatever and the other universes are based on it (aside from only being accessed via D4C),

Except the og timeline and the SBR universe are also parallel worlds to each other, probably because there's an infinite amount of them and they co-exist in the same multiverse. To quote Araki himself.
"The town of Morioh appears in Parts 4 and 8, but they're in parallel worlds, so they aren't linked in time or space. The two Josukes would never meet each other normally."

Imagine that, a parallel world in JoJo is a universe.

The worlds in SBR aren't "a gimmick" that only adheres to that, that's simply not how it works, as a whole, in JoJo, almost every alternate world is barely any different from the last, with just slight variance, but of course, that doesn't mean big differences can't exist if you look long enough, Alternate Diego is proof of that, a Diego who is actually DIO (And I mean that, literally), with The World, who survived his universe's clusterfuck, and is basically untouchable compared to the usual dino version. That's a big difference. Like ****, you realize half the reason D4C exists is to explain why there's a world where Jonathan is a crippled asshole, Dio is a jockey dino, Holly married Yoshikage and had Kira who's a good dude, and so on right?

The **** does them only being accessible by D4C matter? That's a complete nonargument, of course the only Stand able to hop through through universes freely in that part is the only Stand we really see access these alternate worlds in that part. Except that isn't even really the case because the Spin can do that too.

the og timeline in JoJo didn't have this, it's not based on the SBR universe, some unknown place someone's sent by vague powers should not be the same as those universes.

Except, they did, it just wasn't clarified that JoJo has an infinite multiverse till later on, that doesn't mean that the original is somehow completely standalone and doesn't exist in the same canon and multiverse, to give an example, see, literally any verse that introduces a multiverse cosmology.
The og timeline? You mean one of the infinite universes that exist in the cosmology? You're acting like the original universe isn't actually apart of the same multiverse as Part 7/8, when we know damn well it is. Hell, as noncanon as it may be, the fact there's an entire game based around that premise doesn't set off any red flags for you? The og universe didn't have it, only if you completely ignore the existence of two Parts that are literally stated to just be a parallel world to it and within said parts, explicit confirmation that there exists infinite neighboring worlds.

It might be "something like Cream" in the sense that it's a gimmick done due to 1 Stand, since we don't know anything about that weird place GER sends others into then we don't know if they're universes. Cream isn't creating his dark dimension and that isn't universe-sized.

Except it isn't like Cream, that's such a huge, blatantly false equivalence. Cream's dimension is some sort of dark void dimension that leads to nowhere, with nothing in it, located inside the mouth of a Stand, that we have no idea if it existed prior or not, hat is simply not the case here.

Meanwhile with GER, those worlds have a day and night cycle, people, cities, time, seemingly their own history and the people in those world have their own lives and the like (Which makes it pretty clear they weren't created by RTZ, unless we wanna say RTZ can create whole realities now with their own history, civilizations, day and night, etc), it isn't some arbitrary random world, it's played out to be simply another world much like the main one, filled with people. And given we know for an absolute fact, that parallel worlds in JoJo are quite literally just alternate universes to each other, and we've seen numerous parallel worlds, and it just so happens that the death loop for all intents and purposes comes as quite literally just alternate worlds. Why in the hell would we assume they're some arbitrary vague dimension? Occam's razer comes into play here, and given absolutely everything regarding alternate worlds that simply look and behave like main ones with tiny variances are actually just alternate universes, I'm inclined to say that's simply what they are.
You can't compare it to something like Cream, that's beyond disingenuous, unironically the closest thing is D4C in regards to what the death loop's world hold similarity to, as ironic as that may be.



Unless you want to argue that the death loop worlds aren't parallel worlds, which, in every single instance holding even the slightest bit of similarity shows them to be alternate realities and that's it. The alternative is to say RTZ conjured up some arbitrary pocket realm with a star, humanity, timeline and more. Because either it existed prior and we use common sense and say it's one of the literal infinite dimensions that exist side by side, or it isn't that and we assume GER magic'd it into existence because why in the actual **** would a parallel world that adheres to your standards exist ahead of time?

 

[joshpiece]

I agree with Chariot.

 

[Zencha9]

I too agree with chariot

 

[Cloozuma]

Same here

 

[Chariot190]

Hell let's add a bit more to that pile.
Part 7 Diego is considered a parallel world version of Part 3 DIO, is listed under "Appearances of DIO throughout the Parts" (Not Diego mind you, Alt Diego is considered a Dio parallel but not Dino Dio, for some reason).
And is stated to be a Dio/The World that has emerged from a parallel world beyond many dimensions.
And I have my doubts its talking about D4C grabbing him from dimensions away in that line, given it's explicitly talking about his relation to DIO of Part 3.

Point is, the original universe, and Part 7/8 are quite literally just alternate worlds that co-exist in the same cosmology. They're parallel worlds. Much like the literal infinite worlds that exist in JoJo, made blatantly clear through Part 7 with the existence of D4C, Love Train and a handful of explicit quotes and details.

As such, I have no reason to believe that that worlds in the death loop are anything but just parallel worlds like the literal other infinite amount given they all exist side by side and the worlds in the death cycle seem to be just that, other worlds where humanity exists, cities, day and night, time, history, etc. Just one of many alt worlds, it's that or RTZ made it because if not a alternate world, that has been since heavily established to exist in infinite amount. What the **** else would it be? The alternative is to say RTZ created it because some arbitrary world that looks and acts like a parallel world but isn't has no reason to exist prior, and if it did exist prior, well chances are it's what I've been saying it is.

 

[Eficiente]

Except the og timeline and the SBR universe are also parallel worlds to each other, probably because there's an infinite amount of them and they co-exist in the same multiverse.

There's no reason for some world shown in the og timeline to work the same as the infinite parallel worlds from the SBR universe that had a very specific gimmicks to them and the universe they were related to.

To quote Araki himself.
"The town of Morioh appears in Parts 4 and 8, but they're in parallel worlds, so they aren't linked in time or space. The two Josukes would never meet each other normally."

Imagine that, a parallel world in JoJo is a universe.

You give this far more meaning than what it has. He's not saying anything we don't already know.

The worlds in SBR aren't "a gimmick" that only adheres to that, that's simply not how it works, as a whole, in JoJo, almost every alternate world is barely any different from the last, with just slight variance, but of course, that doesn't mean big differences can't exist if you look long enough, Alternate Diego is proof of that, a Diego who is actually DIO (And I mean that, literally), with The World, who survived his universe's clusterfuck, and is basically untouchable compared to the usual dino version. That's a big difference. Like ****, you realize half the reason D4C exists is to explain why there's a world where Jonathan is a crippled asshole, Dio is a jockey dino, Holly married Yoshikage and had Kira who's a good dude, and so on right?

Those worlds aren't "a gimmick", those universes have a gimmick to them over 1 other universe. Compare those universes to this worlds is like comparing cats to a dog, try to say that the dog is a cat via the similarities and point out how other animals have differences the dog doesn't have to the cats. It doesn't prove anything.

Except, they did

They did what? The og timeline isn't based on the SBR universe and there's no proof that the og timeline has its own infinite set of universes that take the things going on in their timelines akin to the og timeline itself. That's not the same as to say that the og universe isn't part of the same multiverse, it is. And that's not the same as to say that versions of characters in any universe from the multiverse can't be parallel versions of each other, they are. But that's not the same as their whole timeline being based on other timeline.

it just wasn't clarified that JoJo has an infinite multiverse till later on, that doesn't mean that the original is somehow completely standalone and doesn't exist in the same canon and multiverse

Never said this, yes they are.

to give an example, see, literally any verse that introduces a multiverse cosmology.
The og timeline? You mean one of the infinite universes that exist in the cosmology? You're acting like the original universe isn't actually apart of the same multiverse as Part 7/8, when we know damn well it is. Hell, as noncanon as it may be, the fact there's an entire game based around that premise doesn't set off any red flags for you? The og universe didn't have it, only if you completely ignore the existence of two Parts that are literally stated to just be a parallel world to it and within said parts, explicit confirmation that there exists infinite neighboring worlds.

Idk why you jump to believe that I think that.

Except it isn't like Cream, that's such a huge, blatantly false equivalence. Cream's dimension is some sort of dark void dimension that leads to nowhere, with nothing in it, located inside the mouth of a Stand, that we have no idea if it existed prior or not, hat is simply not the case here.

We know that it's located inside the mouth of Cream? I was sure the mouth was just a portal or something. There's also the world inside the mirror, called the "realm of death"(?) by Araki in a way as if it already existed before Illuso.

Meanwhile with GER, those worlds have a day and night cycle, people, cities, time, seemingly their own history and the people in those world have their own lives and the like

And we can take a minimum size due to it.

(Which makes it pretty clear they weren't created by RTZ, unless we wanna say RTZ can create whole realities now with their own history, civilizations, day and night, etc)

The correct way to portray it is "we don't really know as it's super vague, maybe that happened, maybe GER BFR'd the target, who knows, here's what's more likely: [X]", which is not the same as to just claimed that that happened.

it isn't some arbitrary random world, it's played out to be simply another world much like the main one, filled with people.

So like the realm of death but not isolated.

And given we know for an absolute fact, that parallel worlds in JoJo are quite literally just alternate universes to each other

We know parallel worlds exist and those are universes, we don't know if this worlds are that. We also know weird dimensions exist in JoJo and that the verse has all kind of bizarre rules like it for each Stand.

 

[Chariot190]

There's no reason for some world shown in the og timeline to work the same as the infinite parallel worlds from the SBR universe that had a very specific gimmicks to them and the universe they were related to.

Except they're the same ******* thing. What, does JoJo suddenly have two completely disconnected cosmologies now? That was rhetorical, they don't.
The original universe, the SBR universe, and the infinite universes inbetween all co-exist. That's simply how it works, I can't believe you're actually arguing this holy ****. And the **** do you mean "very specific gimmicks" you mean "these worlds are quite similar to each other but have a slight variance between them ranging from miniscule to in some cases, drastic". That isn't a gimmick Efi, that's just how that shit works.

You give this far more meaning than what it has. He's not saying anything we don't already know.

Exactly. Yet here you are trying to say otherwise for all intents and purposes.
Part 7/8 and 1-6 are parallel worlds. Just like every other parallel world that exists in JoJo. Stop acting like Part 1-6 is in some sort of cosmic bubble disconnected from the rest of the multiverse, because that's unironically what you're arguing from what I can tell. And everything we've ever been told says that isnt true.

Those worlds aren't "a gimmick", those universes have a gimmick to them over 1 other universe. Compare those universes to this worlds is like comparing cats to a dog, try to say that the dog is a cat via the similarities and point out how other animals have differences the dog doesn't have to the cats. It doesn't prove anything.

Except that's not what I'm saying, or at least not those exact ones in particular. I'm not saying the worlds in the death loop are the exact same worlds as those in SBR. What I'm saying is that SBR explicitly states and shows that there exists INFINITE parallel worlds, all the worlds exist side by side. And the original JoJo universe, along with all those other universes, all co-exist, simultaneously, as parallel worlds to each other. Hell your analogy doesn't even work all things considered because you're unironically acting that because Part 1-6 aren't nearly identical to the Part 7 worlds, which takes place decades to century+ prior, and the only part that has a similar timeframe takes place in a different country means "oh yeah the original jojo universe doesn't exist in the same multiverse because I said so even though the whole point of the multiverse theory beyond just cool ability is to establish that JoJo has a multiverse with infinite worlds co-existing side by side, simultaneously explaining why Part 7-8 is different, but also explaining why in the same Part we cane have things like a Dio who's a dinosaur or Dio who has The World that can stop time. Or how there can be a Kira that's good and is also a Jotaro counterpart and has a Killer Queen who isn't suited for murders to his kinder nature while there also exists a Kira who's a mass murderer".
There is no gimmick, it simply be like that. The multiverse established heavily in Part 7 exists as an explanation as to how Part 1-6 and 7-8 can exist, while also being a fallback, and also just cool.

And besides, that "gimmick" you're referring to, is literally just "the other worlds have similarities" and "the corpse is a singularity". Which isn't actually a gimmick, that's just how it be.

Never said this, yes they are.

No but you sure as **** implied it. And if that "yes they are" is you saying they don't exist in the same multiverse and aren't canon to each other. No offense, but argument is over, I straight up can't debate you if you're gonna be that ignorant to the most blatant of shit. Honestly the fact Part 1-6 and 7/8 are outright called parallel worlds to each other, the exact same terminology used as, you guessed it, the other parallel worlds, should be evidence enough, as if it wasn't overly obvious.

Idk why you jump to believe that I think that.

If you don't believe that, then why in the actual **** are we even having this conversation? If you don't believe that, assuming you're referring to believing they do exist in the same cosmology together, then this whole conversation is completely pointless because absolutely everything I said still stands.

And we can take a minimum size due to it.

Or we use our brains and go "oh this alternate world that has day, night, cities, history, people and entire civilizations, that all but outright confirm these worlds already existed prior, is, chances are, just a parallel world". And given we know damn well what a parallel world entails in JoJo, given there's an infinite amount of them. Why in the actual **** would we assume some completely arbitrary made up size instead of just using our common sense and occam's razer to go "oh it's just a parallel world like the metric **** ton of others that exist in this verse".
Sorry Efi, but I'm not to keen on just pulling made up numbers out my ass when there's a heavily established and far more likely explanation.

The correct way to portray it is "we don't really know as it's super vague, maybe that happened, maybe GER BFR'd the target, who knows, here's what's more likely: [X]", which is not the same as to just claimed that that happened.

Uh, that's kinda what I'm doing. The more likely thing is saying "this world Diavolo gets dropped into, which is pretty blatantly not the main world, is just a parallel world". And given parallel worlds are a heavily established phenomena, explicitly infinite amount, explicitly existing side by side simultaneously, with both the very part this takes in and future parts being proof of parallel worlds. Yes, chances are, it's far more likely the worlds Diavolo gets dropped into are just parallel worlds that adhere to the established context and nature of parallel worlds within the verse, opposed to some made up arbitrary value we slap on it because we don't want to call a duck a duck.

So like the realm of death but not isolated.

Ah yes, the realm of death, with living people, cities, and the like. That was sarcasm, that doesn't exist in canon. Like this is what I mean, you're talking about what's the most likely and to list that, but now you're talking about death realms that, dont even make sense contextually given they're filled with living people who have minds of their own and their own history.

We know parallel worlds exist and those are universes, we don't know if this worlds are that. We also know weird dimensions exist in JoJo and that the verse has all kind of bizarre rules like it for each Stand.

That's true, and honestly, I'd agree with you here, IF, these worlds weren't filled with people, cities, and had their own history, completely disconnected from Diavolo (hell some showed concern for him even). Look, if I'm shown alternate dimension, that hits every single checkmark for what we know a parallel world to have in this verse, while simultaneously checking off every mark that would imply it's a creation of GER or the ability RTZ. While there also being a heavily and well established cosmology and with the definition of parallel worlds being made quite clear in verse. Im going to call a spade a spade Efi. Im sorry, but I simply can't agree with you here, it simply doesn't make any logical sense.

Also those Dio scans above simply treat Part 1-6 and 7-8 as parallel worlds, hell, I could probably find more examples tbh.
A̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶n̶c̶a̶n̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶E̶O̶H̶'̶s̶ ̶e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶g̶u̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶l̶i̶c̶i̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶i̶c̶e̶.̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶E̶O̶H̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶o̶f̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶a̶y̶i̶n̶g̶.̶

 

[Chariot190]

Now, if we could actually focus on the actual issue at hand and not "these parallel worlds arent actually parallel worlds as the verse establishes them to be", that'd be nice. Would love to get that WoU profile sandbox up for review and finishing up those last few calcs we've been working on instead of doing this.

"Standard melee range physically, tens of meters with life sensing, varies with organisms, has an effective manifestation range of at least 2 meters. Up to Low Multiversal with Return to Zero (Could trap Diavolo in a cycle of infinite deaths across what seem to be parallel worlds; could continue to effect Diavolo and cycle him through his death from worlds away. Reversed King Crimson's universal time erasure in its entirety. Stated to be the Ultimate Power, that can return everything to nothing, which should include the likes of [idk insert big ass stand aoe here])

And if it doesn't already exist, in his RTZ section. Specify something like.

"Return to Zero is a semi-automatic ability that, upon Gold Experience Requiem or Giorno being attacked or having an action taken against them that would otherwise bring harm, this ability will activate automatically, returning the action and that of the attacker to 0, reverting them back to a state prior to the action taken. This can happen even without G.E.R's or Giorno's manual input and in situations where they otherwise aren't able to act. When used manually, the effects of Return to Zero have only been shown to be used upon that within Gold Experience Requiem's attention".

Or something along those lines, that should cover the whole "RTZ is big dick range when it does things itself but when GER uses it manually, he aint exactly gonna be using it on some unknown assailant from across the universe he doesn't know exists or whatever".

Also the "Up to" in front of Low Multi should be a good indication of there being some variance and the low multi being the known peak.

This look ok Zecha? Anything you think needs tweaking? Or more clarification?

Edit: Changed the last scan to album with eng translation.
Edit 2: There's also this, that just says he powered up drastically, and that he nullified all of King Crimsons' abilities.

 

[Zencha9]

Yeah the justifications sound about right

 

[Cloozuma]

So Standard Melee Range, Two Meters for GER, At least Low Multi, possibly Higher?

 

[Cloozuma]

Higher because of the worlds being infinite

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Ok. back on track.

Ger should have higher range than GE.

(when are we going to add wonder of u and Soft and wets new key?)

 

[Cloozuma]

Ok. back on track.

Ger should have higher range than GE.

(when are we going to add wonder of u and Soft and wets new key?)

Since when did GER have higher range than GE?

Also WoU is being created, Gappy has a key already

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Chariot190
One thing I am still unsure about is if the "Death loop" requires GER to actually be able to kill the opponent first or not in order to initiate it. I know you said it is resetting death to zero, so that implies to me he has to be able to inflict death once on them to enter the loop first, but I may be missing something since I get different answers when I ask others. For example if GER is battling somebody who has planet level durability, does his RTZ give him a way to kill or bfr them, or will it basically always force a stalemate?

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Since when did GER have higher range than GE?

Also WoU is being created, Gappy has a key already

lol stand stats.

and wait really?

 

[manu_zarri]

@Chariot190
One thing I am still unsure about is if the "Death loop" requires GER to actually be able to kill the opponent first or not in order to initiate it. I know you said it is resetting death to zero, so that implies to me he has to be able to inflict death once on them to enter the loop first, but I may be missing something since I get different answers when I ask others. For example if GER is battling somebody who has planet level durability, does his RTZ give him a way to kill or bfr them, or will it basically always force a stalemate?

Here we treat him as he needs kill before the death loop (even if some soucre vauge soucre state otherwise)

in the blog used for explain how rtz and ger works (that you can easily find on the profile) states:
"As the chart follows, a death by GER is indeed a death, but it is also a loss that can be reverted. However, due to the death's occurance being the placement of the nullification, the victim is placed at the moment right before their death. In the chart, it is represented as a ball rolling on a downward slope where, after being thrown off, it is thrown into a "portal" that goes from the stage of death to the revival of the moment before death: at the top of the slope. This creates an infinite loop of rolling down this path with no end; or as Giorno defined it himself, "an ending without an ending"."

 

[Chariot190]

Ok. back on track.

Ger should have higher range than GE.

(when are we going to add wonder of u and Soft and wets new key?)

Waiting a bit on Josuke. But WoU is basically done, would of had the sandbox up yesterday if not for long ass work shift and this. I'll have it up today though.
Made a colored user vector last night, will add that and have the profile up in maybe a hour or two in sandbox.

@Chariot190
One thing I am still unsure about is if the "Death loop" requires GER to actually be able to kill the opponent first or not in order to initiate it. I know you said it is resetting death to zero, so that implies to me he has to be able to inflict death once on them to enter the loop first, but I may be missing something since I get different answers when I ask others. For example if GER is battling somebody who has planet level durability, does his RTZ give him a way to kill or bfr them, or will it basically always force a stalemate?

Guide says "those defeated by GER will have even their death set to 0". (One may even say "kill" so there you go).
The BFR aspect though, **** if I know, it's vague as shit as to when he can do it, just that he can (BFR and death aren't exactly connected so who knows, honestly just take things at face value) but as for the actual death aspect of it, it seems to need something like a death or at least a near death state to initiate according to guides.

 

[DRW001]

I think a JoJoveller scan states 'Those who die from Requiem's attack will be returned to nothing and will experience death forever'. So yeah, GER needs a death (or least the other person to be near death) in order for the death loop to start.

 

[Chariot190]

I think a JoJoveller scan states 'Those who die from Requiem's attack will be returned to nothing and will experience death forever'. So yeah, GER needs a death (or least the other person to be near death) in order for the death loop to start.

I think I posted that actually.
Here I think.
Edit: Wait it was this one.

 

[DRW001]

Yeah it was the second one. Explicitly states that they die

 

[Eficiente]

Except they're the same ******* thing. What, does JoJo suddenly have two completely disconnected cosmologies now? That was rhetorical, they don't.
The original universe, the SBR universe, and the infinite universes inbetween all co-exist. That's simply how it works, I can't believe you're actually arguing this holy ****.

You have no proof of it. I didn't say that the cosmology isn't the same. Those 2 universe and those infinite universes that take the second universe as a reference exist in the same multiverse, and it also has dimensions with no reason to be universe-sized like Cream's dark dimension, the world inside the mirror and and those infinite worlds GER sends targets into.

And the **** do you mean "very specific gimmicks" you mean "these worlds are quite similar to each other but have a slight variance between them ranging from miniscule to in some cases, drastic". That isn't a gimmick Efi, that's just how that shit works.

That is a gimmick those infinite universes has, if it was how things work then all universes would work by the same logic and they don't, as the og timeline is a whole other thing from the "SBR universe", the former not being based on the latter like those infinite universes it has, nor is there proof that the og timeline has its own set of infinite universe that take what happens in it and kinda copy that. It's very simple to see those infinite universes as having a gimmick to them.

As far as we know not only are those worlds GER sends targets into not universe-sized but everything that happens in them seems to be the very same as in the world from where Diavolo came from, w/o weird fanfic rules on how parallel universes work with tiny differences like the gimmick Part 7 added. And that's not the same as to say they're universes.

Exactly. Yet here you are trying to say otherwise for all intents and purposes.

I'm not.

I'm not saying the worlds in the death loop are the exact same worlds as those in SBR.

Didn't say you did, but that you took the things those universes had going for and say that this worlds are the same.

What I'm saying is that SBR explicitly states and shows that there exists INFINITE parallel worlds, all the worlds exist side by side. And the original JoJo universe, along with all those other universes, all co-exist, simultaneously, as parallel worlds to each other.

Yes they do.

Hell your analogy doesn't even work all things considered because you're unironically acting that because Part 1-6 aren't nearly identical to the Part 7 worlds, which takes place decades to century+ prior, and the only part that has a similar timeframe takes place in a different country means "oh yeah the original jojo universe doesn't exist in the same multiverse [...]

I already said before this comment that they do take place in the same multiverse.

No but you sure as **** implied it.

No, you took it as the only possible interpretation. You likely know "what I'm going for" by now and always aimed at the same w/o saying what you said I did.

And if that "yes they are" is you saying they don't exist in the same multiverse and aren't canon to each other. No offense, but argument is over,

None of that was in my words, "that doesn't mean that the original is somehow completely standalone and doesn't exist in the same canon and multiverse" "Never said this, yes they are." means "those aren't my words, yes that that you say there is correct."

Honestly the fact Part 1-6 and 7/8 are outright called parallel worlds to each other, the exact same terminology used as, you guessed it, the other parallel worlds, should be evidence enough, as if it wasn't overly obvious.

Again, you're giving more meaning to this than what it has, if the worlds GER sends targets into were parallel worlds then yeah they're universes, but just "worlds" is vague. A dimension of unknown size like Cream's can be a world, the realm of death/world inside the mirror is a world, the latter has that in its most used name.

Ah yes, the realm of death, with living people, cities, and the like. That was sarcasm, that doesn't exist in canon. Like this is what I mean, you're talking about what's the most likely and to list that, but now you're talking about death realms that, dont even make sense contextually given they're filled with living people who have minds of their own and their own history.

Again, JoJo's weird, Cream could send people into an already existing dark dimension to fit its ability, same with Man in the Mirror, and as far as we know, same with GER. Having people whereas the last world didn't just means it has people, not that it's a universe like the other universes they exist.

That's true, and honestly, I'd agree with you here, IF, these worlds weren't filled with people, cities, and had their own history

Cities would have no reason to not exist in the world inside the mirror, otherwise you would look in a mirror in a city and there would be no city there. And why would it not have history too? Some seconds before the stuff inside the world inside the mirror was discovered everything was most likely still there, same 1 day before it, 1 year, as much time as the real world has. Same with having a day and night. As said before, all those tiny factors just mean those worlds have them, not that they're universes.

(hell some showed concern for him even)

They're not fake people.

Look, if I'm shown alternate dimension, that hits every single checkmark for what we know a parallel world to have in this verse

The checkmarks are being called universe, parallel world, or even alternate dimension or world would be nice. That's not me strict or anything, the checkmarks given were just irrelevant and were given more meaning than what they have. If the world inside the mirror had the same things going for it than this worlds than that wouldn't make it a universe.

 

[Chariot190]

You have no proof of it. I didn't say that the cosmology isn't the same. Those 2 universe and those infinite universes that take the second universe as a reference exist in the same multiverse, and it also has dimensions with no reason to be universe-sized like Cream's dark dimension, the world inside the mirror and and those infinite worlds GER sends targets into.

The world inside the mirror is literally universe sized tho so bad example.
And I have no proof? Its on you to prove the negative Efi, even though there's beyond enough proof, you just happen to act like it doesn't exist. And no, that's quite literally what you're ******* saying, if the cosmology is the same, guess what? Those infinite universes co-exist simultaneously with both the original parts, and Part 7-8, there is no-inbetween. If Part 1-6 and 7-8 exist in the same cosmology, they also exist simultaneously with all those universes. Stop using actual false equivalences like Cream, it's astoundingly bad of an example.
And that's without getting into the fact that as a mere concept, parallel worlds in JoJo, no questions asked, are heavily established, like holy **** Efi, but yes let's assume arbitrary made up shit instead of the established norm because you it shows us instead of writing a whole part based around it.

That is a gimmick those infinite universes has, if it was how things work then all universes would work by the same logic and they don't, as the og timeline is a whole other thing from the "SBR universe", the former not being based on the latter like those infinite universes it has,

Except it isn't, you can keep saying it is, but it won't magically become true the more you say it. Just because you call something a gimmick and then decide it's limited to just Part 7 because "oh those universes are arent that different that MUST mean those universes are only exclusive to Part 7" is put simply, completely bullshit. The og timeline is only a different thing from Part 7, in that it's, a parallel world, in which there's an infinite amount of them. Why, is it because Part 7 is technically the original universe that makes you say this? Well tough luck on that front, that's just how it is, Part 7 is the original and Part 1-6 is retroactively a derivative (Assuming you believe Diego's theory or take that one bit at direct facevalue, though all we can say is that the corpse itself is a singularity truly). Doesn't change the fact they're explicitly apart of the same multiverse, simply parallel worlds, much like the infinite Funny establishes to exist.

nor is there proof that the og timeline has its own set of infinite universe that take what happens in it and kinda copy that. It's very simple to see those infinite universes as having a gimmick to them.

Oh, you're unironically trying to say JoJo has two multiverses and the heavily established multiverse that Part 7 sets up is only connected to Part 7's world, even though it's made explicitly clear that all those parallel worlds exist simultaneously, side by side, in an infinite amount. Co-existing in a multiverse, and Part 1-6 is just one of those parallel worlds. It's very simple to see a gimmick? I mean, you're seeing a gimmick where there is none, because the original universe and Part 7-8 are quite ******* literally just parallel worlds, out of infinite, that co-exist simultaneously. You're ******* unironically saying that the infinite universes that exist and co-exist side by side don't actually exist simultaneously side by side, but are actually only connected to Part 7's world and no other dimension in the entire cosmology, even if said dimension just so happens to be explicitly a parallel world much like those very same infinite set of worlds, while also saying they can't co-exist side by side, because if they ******* did, that would also mean they exist side by side with the main because they are quite literally the SAME thing.

Actually, its you who wants to prove that Part 1-6 and 7-8 aren't actually parallel worlds as how the verse establishes them to be and apparently trying to say JoJo has to sets of multiverses now, but one is just some arbitrary size you made up and one is infinite, but they're actually not the same because you said so based on a "gimmick" you think exists because parallel worlds happen to have similarities and are based on Part 7's world (even though that's actually just a hypothesis in context, and doesn't even change anything because, yeah, it's true, but that also applies to the og timeline as well).

As far as we know not only are those worlds GER sends targets into not universe-sized but everything that happens in them seems to be the very same as in the world from where Diavolo came from,

"Seem to be the very same" "except size because I said so". Again, established concept. If they seem to be the same, chances are, it's the same.

w/o weird fanfic rules on how parallel universes work with tiny differences like the gimmick Part 7 added. And that's not the same as to say they're universes.

The **** do you mean weird fanfic rules? It's unironically canon. It's been established, full force, what a parallel world in JoJo is, what it entails, what they look, that parallel worlds exist ad infinitum side by side, that parallel worlds are just alternate worlds much like others, and that these dimensions are, as one would have assumed, are just simply alternate universes. And here we are given alternate worlds, that existed prior to GER, and are blatantly shown to be, for all intents and purposes identical to the main world, and fits in with the established conventions of what a parallel world in JoJo is, then why the **** are we going to say they aren't simply just an alternate dimension, ie, a parallel world, over your completely arbitrary and ridiculous inability to call a spade a spade for some reason. If not universes what are they are? Don't answer that, that was rhetorical. Also stop saying it's a gimmick, if it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have gone on record saying that "yeah all these dimensions actually co-exist side by side as parallel worlds in a infinite multiverse, neighboring each other, and that's simply how the cosmology works now lol".

I'm not.

Well my bad then but that's what I'm getting from this.

Didn't say you did, but that you took the things those universes had going for and say that this worlds are the same.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. If we're shown pre-existing parallel worlds that for all intents and purposes are just, well, alternate variations of the main universe. And the verse establishes that parallel worlds exist infinitely simultaneously, side by side, and the worlds we're given adhere to everything we know an alternate dimension to be in JoJo, and we know alternate dimensions in verse are actually universes. Why in the **** would these death loop worlds not be parallel worlds as they're established? Occam's razer Efi. If we know what a parallel world in JoJo is, and these adhere to what we know about them while also being an alternate world in and of itself, the logical conclusion is call it what it is, not treat it like something it's not.

Yes they do.

Ok then the infinite dimensions in Part 7 also co-exist side by side with Part 1-6 if they're the same multiverse? Like, that's what I'm saying here, and if you agree they exist in the same multiverse????

I already said before this comment that they do take place in the same multiverse.

And at this point, I have no idea what you're arguing besides treating an alternate dimension that adheres to what we know to be a parallel world, in a verse with an infinite amount of them, to not be a parallel world.

No, you took it as the only possible interpretation. You likely know "what I'm going for" by now and always aimed at the same w/o saying what you said I did.

Given I was under the impression of you trying to argue they don't exist in the same multiverse, I clearly don't know what you're going for and given you on record in this post said that the infinite multiverse is actually just Part 7 verse exclusive, which is an impossible contradiction, as if the part 7 infinite multiverse is exclusive to Part 7 and not connected to Part 1-6, then that means Part 1-6 and 7 arent in the same multiverse, otherwise they would, by virtue of being the same multiverse. It's one or the other Efi. And saying lol gimmick and treating the infinite multiverse to by some hyper exclusivity thing that exists in a bigger multiverse is complete conjecture you made up, as that's the only way Part 1-6 could be in the same multiverse but simultaneously not be apart of the infinite multiverse of Part 7.

None of that was in my words, "that doesn't mean that the original is somehow completely standalone and doesn't exist in the same canon and multiverse" "Never said this, yes they are." means "those aren't my words, yes that that you say there is correct."

That kinda makes things even worse Efi, you're now actually making up shit to say Part 7's worlds =/= Part 1=6 but Part 1=6 exist in the same multiverse but arent connected to the multiverse established in Part 7. Actually baffling.

Again, you're giving more meaning to this than what it has, if the worlds GER sends targets into were parallel worlds then yeah they're universes, but just "worlds" is vague. A dimension of unknown size like Cream's can be a world, the realm of death/world inside the mirror is a world, the latter has that in its most used name.

Do I need to write a list every time a established alternate universe sized world in JoJo is simply called "a world"? **** dude I guess Part 7-8 arent actually alternate universes because they're called "worlds" a lot.
The worlds GER sends a target into is, for all intents and purposes, an alternate world, to the main one. And guess what that entails? You guessed it, actually being an alternate world. Also I don't know why you keep using the mirror world as an example, the mirror world is literally a mirror world, it's identical to the main world, just without life. Unless you're about to say a world that's a complete mirror to the main world and is identical except that life doesnt exist in it is actually not that and is some arbitrary size you made up.
Again, I'm calling a spade a spade, if a alternate world in JoJo is shown, and it's filled with people, life, day, nght, etc, there's literally no reason to assume it's anything but a parallel world in a verse that fully established that those exist in infinity.
Hell I'd even go as far to say that should be the default assumption in general for verses, I'm not about to say the something like the mirror world in Pokemon from Gen 6 or some of the ultra spaces arent universes because it's common sense.

Again, JoJo's weird, Cream could send people into an already existing dark dimension to fit its ability, same with Man in the Mirror, and as far as we know, same with GER. Having people whereas the last world didn't just means it has people, not that it's a universe like the other universes they exist.

No, it's actually straightforward, you're just setting an arbitrary limitation on something because, well I actually don't know why, this is baffling all things considered. There's a pretty big ******* difference between a Dark space that exists nowhere where nothing exists within it, everything that enters gets annihilated and is a completely unique phenomena within the context of the verse at large. Compared to "alternate world that looks exactly like the main one with people, history, space, time, day, night, etc and behaves exactly as one would expect lol". Like actually be realistic here Efi, do you not see the difference between the two? Also man in the mirror is still a bad example. And no, not as far as we know, as far as we know, they're parallel worlds, **** you make it sound like these worlds are brought into being by GER, no, these worlds blatantly existed prior, they didn't pop into existence when GER did his thing, they had their own history and timeflow, we see that blatantly. So if we're shown a world, that has a timeline, people, etc, yeah, spade a spade, not a lol arbitrary made up dimension. Hell the fact it has people and a history should be sufficient enough as the only worlds in JoJo to have those are established since to be parallel worlds.

Cities would have no reason to not exist in the world inside the mirror, otherwise you would look in a mirror in a city and there would be no city there. And why would it not have history too? Some seconds before the stuff inside the world inside the mirror was discovered everything was most likely still there, same 1 day before it, 1 year, as much time as the real world has. Same with having a day and night. As said before, all those tiny factors just mean those worlds have them, not that they're universes.

False equivalence. The mirror world (despite being a ******* universe in and of itself) has those because changes in the real world are instantly reflected continuously at all times in the mirror world, you drop a pebble in real world? A pebble magically gets lifted up and drops 1:1 while you do it in the real world. A city will appear in the mirror world because it will be created 1:1 100% identical simultaneously in parallel to the real world.
That's not the same as an alternate reality having people, civilization, time, history, space, day, night, etc through no outside force besides the fact it's an alternate world, and when we know parallel worlds exist ad infinitum, and this is literally just that, spade a spade. Also how in the **** is having civilization, history and an entire humanity a "tiny factor", ******* NOTHING in JoJo BESIDES parallel worlds has those.

They're not fake people.

But apparently it's a fake parallel world.

The checkmarks are being called universe, parallel world, or even alternate dimension or world would be nice.

"Alternate dimension/world". Ah yes, so Cream and the mirror world are good to go then? Efi, you do know common sense and context clues exist. Like ****, I'd maybe, maybe, agree with you it we weren't talking about a verse that establishes this shit in full force.

That's not me strict or anything, the checkmarks given were just irrelevant and were given more meaning than what they have. If the world inside the mirror had the same things going for it than this worlds than that wouldn't make it a universe.

I honestly don't know what you're doing, I'd say it's you being overly strict, but I don't even think that's what's happening, its ******* baffling to me where even having a argument over what should be obvious as ****.
Also your mirror world example is probably the worst one you could have used, also a false equivalence as outlined above, also missing the whole "entire civilizations" part. Or the fact we know what differentiates that realm.
Here it's literally just a pre-existing alternate world that RTZ dropped Diavolo's ass in. That's literally it, there's nothing special about it, it's just an alternate world. And in the verse where we know exactly what a parallel world is, why in the hell are we even arguing this.

 

[Chariot190]

Like actually don't understand why this is even a topic of contention.
I'd have assumed alternate worlds that have day, night, time, space, history, people, cities, ecosystems, etc, that existed prior before the Stand itself and as such isn't a product of an ability, and in a verse where parallel worlds exist infinitely side by side simultaneously, where it establishes that parallel worlds are actually just alternate universes with slight variance.
We'd assume the alternate pre-existing world is, in fact, a pre-existing world as how the verse defines it per occam's razer. And just common sense really.

But hell, unironically arguing that there's an infinite set of universes connected to just a single universe, within another multiverse. Sounds like a hard upgrade to ******* like HA Dio and Kars to me if we wanna go that route, even though that isn't how it works in context.

 

[Secretly_domain]

Rtz is just reverting to zero where your make it into zero ( causality )

Death loop via him killing someone after the rtz process and bring someone to the other (dimensions?)

I would suggest either Multiversal but due to his stand stats being an infinity possibly Multiversal+

Also could we drag scan and feats instead fighting each other

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Rtz is just reverting to zero where your make it into zero ( causality )

Death loop via him killing someone after the rtz process and bring someone to the other (dimensions?)

I would suggest either Multiversal but due to his stand stats being an infinity possibly Multiversal+

Also could we drag scan and feats instead fighting each other

eh? ger's stats dont mean it has infinite potency in each stat. in JoJo a go go...Ger is stated to just be unimaginably out of range from any other stand that exists(gets thrown out the window when you talk about made in heaven)

 

[Chariot190]

I would suggest either Multiversal but due to his stand stats being an infinity possibly Multiversal+

Also could we drag scan and feats instead fighting each other

Multiversal+ only works if the death loop actually hits that point, which it never real because technicalities (it lasts for eternity, but to hit infinite deaths it'll have to last that long, but it never will because that'll take infinite time). And the stats aren't infinity, but rather exceed other Stands, and no Stand in canon has Multi+ range except D4C's dimension hop and spin, which arent factored in their stats unfortunately(D4C only has a C in range, because it refers to his manifestation range in that instance, not ability range. C being the the same as something like The World, a few meters).

And as for scans, some scans were given, though not that it matters, everyone here is well aware of what's being argued, the whole multiverse, parallel world shit is common knowledge.

Hell, the main point of the thread was resolved more or less, now it's just arguing what qualifies as a parallel world in jojo.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Multiversal+ only works if the death loop actually hits that point, which it never real because technicalities. And the stats aren't infinity, but rather exceed other Stands, and no Stand in canon has Multi+ range except D4C's dimension hop and spin, which arent factored in their stats unfortunately(D4C only has a C in range, because it refers to his manifestation range in that instance, not ability range. C being the the same as something like The World, a few meters).

And as for scans, some scans were given, though not that it matters, everyone here is well aware of what's being argued, the whole multiverse, parallel world shit is common knowledge.

(huh. spin...naruichi told me it would probably get some type of abstract in some CRT) so all we need to do is just think of a good enough range fix for it and we should be done here.(i really ******* want wonder of u to get added) seriously though what is Efi arguing about?

 

[DRW001]

So should RTZ get Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal in range then?
As for the other GER ranges, it should remain the same as GE + a 'likely higher' at the end due to JoJo-agogo stating how the original abilities of GE have evolved and it's physical characteristics greatly improving after transforming into GER.

Edit : Imgur link to scan
Honestly, this should probably also result in "All previous abilities" changing to "All previous abilities to a greater extent" considering what's already been said about GE's abilities and how they've evolved, as well as the fact that GER flicked a pebble through KC's hand, through a pillar, and the debris turning into scorpions to attack Diavolo, without ever making physical contact with the debris. This is something that regular GE could absolutely not do, as his life manip requires him to physically touch objects, which GER didn't do here.

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

poggers we can finally do what we wanted to do for this CRT

 

[Cloozuma]

So should RTZ get Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal in range then?
As for the other GER ranges, it should remain the same as GE + a 'likely higher' at the end due to JoJo-agogo stating how the original abilities of GE have evolved and it's physical characteristics greatly improving after transforming into GER.

Edit : Imgur link to scan
Honestly, this should probably also result in "All previous abilities" changing to "All previous abilities to a greater extent" considering what's already been said about GE's abilities and how they've evolved, as well as the fact that GER flicked a pebble through KC's hand, through a pillar, and the debris turning into scorpions to attack Diavolo, without ever making physical contact with the debris. This is something that regular GE could absolutely not do, as his life manip requires him to physically touch objects, which GER didn't do here.

That's what I'm proposing, they're not accepting it cause shitfest.

Edit: Also I do agree with the second paragraph. Wait, didn't GER touched the pebble with life energy before flicking it?

 

[SSJRyu1]

I think I posted that actually.
Here I think.
Edit: Wait it was this one.

OK, thanks for clarifying. Perhaps we should add those scans and explanation as to why he needs to actually kill them in order to initiate the death loop as a brief note if it's not already on the profile somewhere. It is a pretty common question, and I doubt anybody would be opposed to adding it.

Oh, btw after looking at the thread I would recommend RTZ get Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal in range.

 

[DRW001]

@Cloozuma
GER never physically touched the pebble before launching it at Diavolo. The anime shows this in detail with a close up shot. The pebble is just engulfed in GER's aura there, whatever that may entail.

 

[Cloozuma]

@Cloozuma
GER never physically touched the pebble before launching it at Diavolo. The anime shows this in detail with a close up shot. The pebble is just engulfed in GER's aura there, whatever that may entail.

He flicked the pebble actually.