About Dialga's Immeasurable Speed

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Continuing from here . While it was never closed, it kinda never went anywhere after a while either. So i'd like to pick things up from where it left off to get an answer, as well as speak on something brought up here that I sort of have issues with. Though im perfectly fine if it doesn't get accepted in the end.

So the basic rundown here is the thread was attemtping to upgrade Dialga (and whoever scales) to Immeasurable Speed because of a statement clarifying he can travel beyond time. Why this was never added/accepted in the end was because we never determined if it was Sealed Dialga doing the feat or not and then things went dead after that. Regarding that matter, i'd like to say this:

In all honesty, I do not see why this feat wouldnt be done by sealed Dialga instead of his unsealed form. Reasons? "Traveling beyond time". It makes much better sense to think sealed Dialga would be doing this instead of unsealed. Someone who is a literal concept along the lines of omnipresence kinda isnt able to go any place without an avatar as they would already be there. That and/or transcend themselves while as the concepts. In addition, Cyrus is literally the only guy in the world who knows that the CT have forms beyond their physical ones, so what else could this be refering to?

Thats all I wanted to say. Does anyone have issues with this?

 

[Kaltias]

My thoughts about this:

"Future beyond time" doesn't mean anything.

"Travelling beyond time" sounds like Immeasurable to me. Time Travel is travelling trough time, not beyond it.

"Exceeds time" also seems to imply a movement beyond linear time.

The thing about the forest beyond time could be like the thing about moving outside of space time so idk about that.

I'm fine with immeasurable for whoever scales from this.

Reposting because my opinion is the same

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, isnt the Unown's dimension a place beyond space-time too, like on the same plane as the CT's respective dimensions?

 

[Kaltias]

I don't know.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kukui Yes

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with Kal. Also, legit no one sans Cyrus knows of the unsealed forms of the trio, so it's not the true versions.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Alphamon for reasons above...Oh wait...wrong thread....

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui Yes

Thought so.

If that is the case why have we never thought of giving the trio immeasurable speed based off this alone? Dialga and Palkia made the unown's universe their playground of terror for like the whole movie. Shouldnt this bump them up too?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Unown I know wouldnt, but what about Darkrai, Cresselia and the Lake Trio?

 

[Kaltias]

They already scale from the sealed CT, no?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Should Unown be reverted back to Infinite, or am I missing something?

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Dragon

They're consistently tagged by things with finite speed.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But don't they consistently live within a void or something?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, they constantly live around in their void.

And when have the Unown been tagged by things at finite speed consistently? At least as a group anyway?

Im pretty sure an Unown by itself is no where near as strong as when they are together as a group depending on how big it is.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I think Unown groups could have infinite speed.

 

[Dark649]

Mewtwo destroying a group of Unown was one of the reasons why they were downgraded.

 

[Kaltias]

Isn't destroying a group of Unown a ridiculously high end outlier for someone like Mewtwo?

 

[Dark649]

Yes, it was also done during the FR and LF Manga where the connection of Unowns and the Creation Trio was still not created.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean yeah, but if it's an outlier for him, it means that it doesn't count as a low end feat for them either. I'm also pretty sure that beings that live in a timeless void are infinite in speed, the issue is more who scales and who doesn't.

 

[Dark649]

This was the thread that downgraded them.

 

[Kaltias]

So their dimension is outside space-time or a timeless void? The former I don't know, but the latter is infite speed

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I agree with Kaltias.

That was based on our standards for Infinite Speed which have changed since the downgrade. As long as we judge it on a case by case basis, moving in timeless voids would count along the lines as immeasurable speed.

It was also based on the fact that "Entei tagged them" when that isnt at all true. That Entei was created by the Unown and the only reason why it could even do anything to them was because Molly literally ordered the Unown to let Entei beat them. So this shouldnt count as a way to make it look like an outlier either.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And yes their void is beyond space-time. It's on the same plane as the dimensions of the Creation Trio.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Just gonna point out, Mewtwo, Pikachu, Aipom, and more have tagged unowns. Its happened in basically every appearance they've had.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Mewtwo is an outlier so thats moot.

Pikachu and Aipom would probably be the same thing, especially considering Aipom immediately did that after evolving to showcase its new power. It's a common thing in fiction for characters who get new upgrades in power to start doing something to those who'd normally outclass them by a lot. From how I see it anyways.

 

[LordAizenSama]

But don't they consistently live within a void or something?

We had a thread about this and it went something along the lines of simply existing in a void without time/space/whatever does not mean you move at such speed within the universe.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Is it really an outlier if it's ''every single time''?

 

[LordAizenSama]

People. We updated our infinite speed requirements some time ago. Look at the thread Dark649 posted above.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes and then it was edited back iirc.

We concluded it would still grant infinite speed, you just need to first judge it on a case by case basis before deciding if it would upgrade characters depending on their feats in question.

 

[LordAizenSama]

No. It was not.

As for judging it on a case by case basis you need evidence they retained that "speed" within the universe. Unown has none.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Were aware Auzen, we were in that thread.

Honestly, don't think unown should get it, every single instance that exists of them outside of that dimension they get tagged, beaten and more. And there's multiple instances, it's not a one or two time thing.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@J-Man

It would be helpful if you could name all of them please.

@Aizen

Nvm. Yes it was I just checked. Refer to Note 4 here .

 

[LordAizenSama]

I see the note, It's essentially saying make sure they can move like thst within the continuum or it's a outlier. I do not like how that note is worded though. Its not that it is a outlier, it's just a ability and not any ridiculous speed.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Mewtwo beat plenty, Aipom and pikachu fought some, Saturn's Bronzir tagged a group, an unown G fought team rocket, bugsy managed.to beat and capture an unown G, probably more.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Mewtwo- Outlier for him

Aipom and Pikachu- Very likely the same thing. If Mewtwo can gain an outlier for it these two can.

Saturn- When did that happen?

Team Rocket- Same thing as Saturn

Bugsy- Not sure, though Dark brought up a point on the Unown not being connected to Gen 4 yet. If that holds any place, then this would be moot too.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You can't just say it's an outlier for the lesser character every time it happens.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^. @professorkukui you need to prove that Unown move at that speed within the continuum.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Kukui, it's every single time.

There's more times too.

It's not an outlier if it's every single time.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Ever

Considering these things naturally live outside of space-time on a daily basis, it would make sense that everytime they face fodder they need to be downgraded. That would be like applying the same treatment to the CT. Besides, I only stated 2 were outliers. Aibipom and Pikachu for one, and definitely Mewtwo as a second which we all agreed on.