About 2-B Alien X

[Greenshifter]

It still needs to be evaluated yes

The Omnitrix can output low-2C energy after a day and was able to knock out Vilgax after 30 seconds and if it was actually that part of him that survived getting vaporized then you'd have a point, granted I'm not sure how Malware's consciousness works since he was later on dusted by Feedback even tho he would still have pieces to regenerate from, but it's made quite clear that all pieces falling from the moon to Galvan are Malware and an extension of his being.

 

[My_area]

Hello,my friend sent me this and I am not sure if its real or not so can anyone confirm if its real or not if its real then that will potentially debunk Alien X being 2B because he was stated to be strongest because there is a alien even stronger than Alien X so potentially it means race of Celestialpaiens aren't really strongest and its only claimed to be strongest because nobody has seen a stronger alien or race than it

 

[Firestorm808]

The statement is real, but it was retconned by the show by Azmuth and Paradox. As you can see, the post was from the Alien Force era.

 

[My_area]

Oh I see thank you for clearing up but how was it retconned if I may ask?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just giving an update here to everyone that I'm going to respond to the things that were said here soon. I'm too busy with schoolwork and other things to give my full attention to this thread, but I will come back ASAP respond.

 

[My_area]

Just giving an update here to everyone that I'm going to respond to the things that were said here soon. I'm too busy with schoolwork and other things to give my full attention to this thread, but I will come back ASAP respond.

Oh no problem take your time and respond when you have free time

 

[DemonicDude]

Lamo attempt of Downgrading way big won't matter at cause then i'm gonna make Albedo Way Big Cosmic Destruction time page then people are gonna use that when it comes to vs battle threads lmao that an epic fail.

 

[Firestorm808]

@DemonicDude

Let's try to keep the conversation civilized.

 

[DemonicDude]

@DemonicDude
Let's try to keep the conversation civilized.

Okay sir

 

[Greenshifter]

@DemonicDude completely fine with that, my point wasn't to downgrade Way Big out of spite or something, in fact I'll help you out, so Albedo was gonna draw in a cosmic storm to destroy the planet. The bad news is this probably wouldn't scale to his regular AP since it seems like something that would take a lot of time and more of an ability to move cosmic storms rather than create them (I have however not played the video game so feel free to correct me), the good news is that Albedo still oneshots small planets in that vide game I think so if you can find the link to that then we're set. And if someone asks why Way Big should get a separate page for this video game, tell them that this Way Big has way higher AP than the canon one and that his ability to draw in cosmic storms is something canon Way Big did not display and it can also be used for travel purposes and that he uses the Potis Altiare, I think that should be enough to warrant his own page. I'd recommend 2 keys, one for Way Big with the Potis Altiare and one for Evil Way Big, AP amp and more bloodlusted respectively.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

@ My Area author statements also says Alien X is omnipotent, and that he can destroy the omniverse. So either we are using all of author statement or none of them. Unless you can justify why we should one but not the other?

 

[DragonicDoom]

The rule for author statements is that if it contradicts the original source material it's ignored. If new content for the source material comes out that contradicts an older author statement, the source material takes priority. So for example, Man of Action has said that Alien X is above and beyond all dimensions (i.e Tier-0) but there is far more evidence in the show to suggest that they are bound by dimensions, therefore that statement is ignored.

 

[My_area]

@ My Area author statements also says Alien X is omnipotent, and that he can destroy the omniverse. So either we are using all of author statement or none of them. Unless you can justify why we should one but not the other?

Thats ignored because show doesn't support him being omnipotent nor any statement or anything in Ben 10 verse implies he can actually destroy a omniverse not to say Ben 10 verse doesn't even have omniverse so thus its not used

Hence statements by author are reviewed in case by case basis and I dont see how Alien X not being strongest alien contradict anything in the show

 

[Firestorm808]

@My area

Omnipotent author statements can be used since it is repeated by several characters in the show, but they cannot be used in the philosophical sense. We take it as just being the strongest in the verse.

The Alien Force era statement of Alien X not being the strongest in the Omnitrix was retconned in Ultimate Alien when Azmuth, who knows all the Omnirix DNA samples, calls Celestialsapiens the greatest power.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

@my area Dwayne said himself that we should take whatever he says on the forum with a grain of salt, because what happens in the show is the true canon or something like that.

There is literally no way to prove a character is omnipotent, no character in any fictional verse can literally do anything, which is what "omnipotent" literally means. Which would make the word pointless, because there is no way to logically prove a fictional character could literally do anything.Hence we shouldnt apply the word literally, which is something people on this site already do.

There is never any implication in the show that Alien X isnt the most powerful alien in the series, so unless you can prove otherwise, you cant use Dwayn'es statement for anything. He has been refered as such repeatedly.

 

[DragonicDoom]

So in case anyone's missed it, The Ink Tank recently posted a video detailing some of Ben 10's most powerful feats, including one about Alien X. The feat given is Skuurd forming a sword out of Celestialsapien DNA which easily cut through a barrier that 5D beings said was impossible to breach or switch off, and that being able to do so was impressive. They list this feat as High 2-A, but as I'm not all too experienced with this level of tiering I'd like to hear other opinions on this.

 

[Andytrenom]

It's not, especially since our new standards will require higher dimensions to be established as higher infinities in the verse itself.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah and the time Cycles crashed into the interior of their ship, yet their ship can take the Big Bang, sooooo I won't really scale anyone to anything inside their ship, also Alien X was unable to contain the Big Bang and that's about as valid as the high-2A stuff.

 

[DragonicDoom]

When was Alien X unable to contain a Big Bang? Also yeah I don't completely agree with this and think it should be considered at absolute best a serious high ball, if at all. Also minor point I thought to mention about Ultimate Kevin, in the episode "The Forge of Creation" Ultimate Kevin flew off into the titular forge, and yet he ends up back on Earth an undefined amount of time later. This means unless Paradox transported him back to his own unvierse offscreen, Ultimate Kevin flew between unvierses in what is likely a matter of days.

 

[Spinoirr]

Could be PiS

 

[DragonicDoom]

It most likely is, but I still thought I should bring it up.

 

[My_area]

@My area
Omnipotent author statements can be used since it is repeated by several characters in the show, but they cannot be used in the philosophical sense. We take it as just being the strongest in the verse.

The Alien Force era statement of Alien X not being the strongest in the Omnitrix was retconned in Ultimate Alien when Azmuth, who knows all the Omnirix DNA samples, calls Celestialsapiens the greatest power.

It is refering to just strongest race they have seen instead of omnipotence in philosophical sense hence it cant be used and is wrong

Does he now?? Maybe he has plans for stronger alien or something but I guess true

 

[My_area]

@my area Dwayne said himself that we should take whatever he says on the forum with a grain of salt, because what happens in the show is the true canon or something like that.
There is literally no way to prove a character is omnipotent, no character in any fictional verse can literally do anything, which is what "omnipotent" literally means. Which would make the word pointless, because there is no way to logically prove a fictional character could literally do anything.Hence we shouldnt apply the word literally, which is something people on this site already do.

There is never any implication in the show that Alien X isnt the most powerful alien in the series, so unless you can prove otherwise, you cant use Dwayn'es statement for anything. He has been refered as such repeatedly.

Yeah he did but here in this wiki his statement is taken as long as it doesn't contradict whats shown in show like his statement of Ben gaining control over Alien X by talking isn't always shown and is skipped is used since it doesn't contradict anything in show otherwise if we follow by show in Ben 10 omniverse 2017 episodes it looked like as if Ben has mastered Alien X and instantly transformed and gained control over it

Exactly my point and I am sure Author was referring to it literally which isn't used and is discarded

Before doing that you need to prove that Alien X is strongest alien in omnitrix in order to contradict whats stated by author so I dont think I should prove the negative because nowhere in show is it implied that Alien X is strongest alien in omnitrix but by what Firestorm808 says then maybe it really is contradicted

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

>Exactly my point and I am sure Author was referring to it literally which isn't used and is discarded

In which fictional verse is the word omnipotent not used literally?

I dont need to prove anything, Alien X is refered to as the strongest Alien X in the omnitrix, both in the show and by author statements. He has been refered as such numerous times. All you have is 1 author statement, contradicted by other author statements and statements from within the show

 

[Greenshifter]

@DragonicDoom when the failsafe was doing it's thing, it turned Ben into Alien X for a split second and he failed to contain it so the Omnitrix cycled to a different alien, either the Omnitrix is smart enough to know what Ben is trying to do and the failsafe doesn't just prevent him from dying, or it's a counter feat to Alien X being low-2C because it might be that only the Anihilaarg when creating a universe is low-2C and when destroying a universe is 3A (I hope not tho) and if the Forge of Creation is actually inside the universe then we have another problem cause then Paradox might not be referencing his chrono navigator with the strongest power statement since it would be the strongest device in the multiverse/omniverse. But this is all worst case scenario.

@My Area I think Alien X being the strongest alien in the Omnitrix got retconned by another statement later on and Alien X not being the strongest would be really weird considering that they stated that Atomix is the Omnitrix's second most powerful alien.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Greenshifter Ben cycling through all his aliens was done for the sake of the finale. The same goes for addition of a fail safe feature. It is contradicted several times in omniverse.

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually I wanted to talk to you about that, when is it contradicted in Omniverse, cause it activates faster than the Big Bang, literally at the last moment and I don't think there is one time in Omniverse where Ben either died or where he couldn't react, except for the CTB. Which might be because of existence erasure + Atomic-X dying so no more Celestialsapien DNA because of Acausality type 2 + the Omnitrix going to a different Ben + maybe not recognizing the CTB as a threat, …?

And sure but they could have let it stop at Alien X, unless the failsafe is smart enough to know that Ben wants to absorb the Big Bang and not just not die.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Didn't Ben say the Omnitrix knows him better than he does? It knowing what he wanted is a very real possibility.

 

[Greenshifter]

There are more instances of this, like the Omnitrix transforming young Ben in teen Ben's body in Ben Again into the right alien every single time that he transformed even tho he doesn't even know how they look and he never asks how they look to Gwen or Rook. Or the Omnitrix refusing to let Ben transform into any alien but Ghostfreak when Michael Morningstar was absorbing everyone's life-force in OV (didn't watch the full episode tho).

 

[Firestorm808]

Are we defining the Failsafe as Automatic transformation, pre-selected transformation or both.

 

[My_area]

>Exactly my point and I am sure Author was referring to it literally which isn't used and is discarded
In which fictional verse is the word omnipotent not used literally?

I dont need to prove anything, Alien X is refered to as the strongest Alien X in the omnitrix, both in the show and by author statements. He has been refered as such numerous times. All you have is 1 author statement, contradicted by other author statements and statements from within the show

Its used literally everywhere hence its discarded and not used

I haven't watched too much of Ben 10 omniverse but I dont remember Alien X being stated as strongest alien in omnitrix

 

[My_area]

@My Area I think Alien X being the strongest alien in the Omnitrix got retconned by another statement later on and Alien X not being the strongest would be really weird considering that they stated that Atomix is the Omnitrix's second most powerful alien.

Oh was it retconned? If it was then I suppose the statement can be discarded then

Yeah true but it didn't have Atomic X in the list though logically he should be stronger than Atomix

 

[Firestorm808]

@My area

Ultimate Alien:

Azmuth: Trivialities. While you did it about saving mere planets Aggregor obtained the means to travel to the forge of creation and obtain the greatest power in the universe!

Azmuth knows all alien DNA in the codon stream, and he still calls Celestialsapiens the greatest power.

 

[My_area]

@Firestorm808

But that was in Ultimate Alien right? Not Ben 10 omniverse right where its possible that there is stronger alien in omnitrix

 

[Firestorm808]

@My area

What evidense in Omniverse suggests otherwise?

 

[My_area]

@Firestorm808

That its possible that there is a stronger alien based on author statement many years back

 

[Firestorm808]

As I said, the Alien Force author statement was retconned in the Ultimate Alien Era. The source material takes priority.

 

[My_area]

It can still apply for omniverse which is Latest installment and has same author in which Alien X being strongest alien wasn't ever stated and omnitrix has many more aliens than the watch before so there is still possibility that there is stronger alien than Alien X

 

[Firestorm808]

@My area

It's pretty cut and dry that Celestialsapiens are the strongest DNA in the Omnitrix.

Additionally, the Prime Universe was destroyed with only Alien X surviving. In turn, Alien X is the strongest in the Omnitrix.

 

[DemonicDude]

It's still the Way Big it just about wheather how much power he uses or shows it, Benjamin Kirby Tennisballs for saftey of everyone on Earth doesn't do comsic beams unless he's on another planet or in space which he did against Malware in Omniverse and overpowered Conquest ray when he got the chance ,those are not 2 different things it's the same specie and the same alien all along it's all about showing your bettter moves whever ben has gotten the page to do so with way big.