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About 2-B Alien X (Continued)

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@Laggingaround and everyone else saying the Chrono Navigator shouldn't scale because of timing.

Greenshifter said:
My rebuttal to the timing of the greatest power statement:

First of all: we do not assume something to be retconned unless it is explicitly shown.

Second of all: the statement was only made only 2 years before the Chrono Navigator was established as a 2B-device which is not that long.

Third of all: Kukui stated this:

It's like how Anti-Monitor fought a guy who would be established as a 5-Dimensional Imp years after the story happened so it was clearly not the intent when writing, and we don't use it as a result.

DC however is way more inconsistent than Ben 10, has multiple independent writers, while Man Of Action is always involved in Ben 10 and the time gap is presumably less than this DC case.

Fourth of all: Man Of Action does think about the destructive capabilities of whatever device Paradox made as seen here, his entropy pump that he made back in the 50's could destroy reality for a distance of several lightyears. The Chrono Navigator was made at least 100000 years after this and after he gained complete understanding of the space-time continuum and this was all established in AF and UA, so the Chrono Navigator being a 2B-device in Omniverse is only a logical extension from this.

Fifth of all:

From the episode "Paradox":

Ben: You save the world dozens of times.

Paradox: Hundreds, actually. In fact, on one occasion, you and I worked together to save the entire univ-- never mind. It should be here any -- [loud rumbling] You could set your watch by it.

Ben and Paradox working together to save the entire universe (well actually multiverse or more) happened in Ben Again, which is the episode when the Chrono Navigator is established as a 2B-device.

TLDR; Alien X should stay at 2B, if my rebuttal is not convincing enough then I am fine with at least Low-2C, likely 2B.
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@Zamasu Yes, but actually no.
 
@Everyone else, the main focus should be right now to determine if the Chrono Navigator uses AP or hax and if it uses hax, that it scales to itself, if it does, this thread is practically over.
 
Crabwhale said:
That's not just the definition of "omnipotent". Even practical omnipotence within a given verse that isn't the bullshit unachievable version has some prerequisites, like having no limits or never struggling.

Alien X does have things that limit him (the multiple personalities for one) and things that can make him struggle (the surface of that one planet even he can't approach, other Celestialsapiens), meaning even within the context of the verse he is not all powerful.

I don't understand exactly what you're even trying to argue for exactly here, but I ask you again, drop this needless point in a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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well yeah alien x is not truly omnipotent he does have limit especially that the creator confirmed that alien x is not even the strongest in the OmniTrix
 
Well since Badrimoine posted here might as well revive this thread, however are we gonna continue 2B Alien X and finish it before the move to the forums or do wait till everyone's exams are over (Andy's, Kukui's I assume, mine (I do still have some time before they start)) in February (at least that's when mine are over) and remake the thread on the new forum?
 
Greenshifter said:
Well since Badrimoine posted here might as well revive this thread, however are we gonna continue 2B Alien X and finish it before the move to the forums or do wait till everyone's exams are over (Andy's, Kukui's I assume, mine (I do still have some time before they start)) in February (at least that's when mine are over) and remake the thread on the new forum?
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wait does 2-B mean 4D or 5D?
 
It means multiversal, at least 1000 universal timespaces. Being higher dimensional is not mutually exclusive.
 
Firestorm808 said:
It means multiversal, at least 1000 universal timespaces. Being higher dimensional is not mutually exclusive.
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can you tell me whats the difference between multiverse and omniverse? I'm confused
 
We generally don't use the term Omniverse on this site because it gives inflated results and Omniverse is not very clearly defined in Ben 10.

My opinion: Multiverse is the collection of all timelines within Ben 10. Omniverse is the collection of all timelines + all alternate realities such as the Null Void, Dagon's dimension, Ledgerdomain, et etc.
 
Greenshifter said:
We generally don't use the term Omniverse on this site because it gives inflated results and Omniverse is not very clearly defined in Ben 10.

My opinion: Multiverse is the collection of all timelines within Ben 10. Omniverse is the collection of all timelines + all alternate realities such as the Null Void, Dagon's dimension, Ledgerdomain, et etc.
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so multiverse is all universes together and omniverse is literally everything?
 
In DC, the omniverse is a collection of Multiverses in the Overvoid.

In regards to Ben 10, its not elaborated on that much.
 
@Quicksilver Nope, we have yet to decide whether The Chrono Navigator works via hax or not and if it still scales to itself if it does.
 
Greenshifter said:
@Quicksilver Nope, we have yet to decide whether The Chrono Navigator works via hax or not and if it still scales to itself if it does.
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shouldn't the crono navigator be 2-A since it was going to erase infinite universes and time lines which is a 2-A feat?
 
Well we don't know if it's infinite or not, but that's being discussed in the other thread. However, the problem is that if the Chrono Navigator did it via portals and those portals are deemed to not scale to his AP (because it would take less energy to create the portals to then destroy the multiverse then straight up destroying the multiverse or something) then the Chrono Navigator would only be 2B via portals and thus Alien X might not scale above it because it's essentially destroying the multiverse via cheats instead of raw power.
 
Greenshifter said:
Well we don't know if it's infinite or not, but that's being discussed in the other thread. However, the problem is that if the Chrono Navigator did it via portals and those portals are deemed to not scale to his AP (because it would take less energy to create the portals to then destroy the multiverse then straight up destroying the multiverse or something) then the Chrono Navigator would only be 2B via portals and thus Alien X might not scale above it because it's essentially destroying the multiverse via cheats instead of raw power.
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d
Wait don't are you trying to tell me that Alien_X should be downgraded to low 2-C???
 
I'm using the word if, I'm saying that we need to refute this, or else Alien X will be back to low-2C (well the CTB and the Anihilaarg upgrade are still a thing so maybe not low-2C but it would not be as good as scaling to the Chrono Navigator).
 
Greenshifter said:
I'm using the word if, I'm saying that we need to refute this, or else Alien X will be back to low-2C (well the CTB and the Anihilaarg upgrade are still a thing so maybe not low-2C but it would not be as good as scaling to the Chrono Navigator).
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I mean still think that Alien_X should be beyond 2-B for reasons above so here this video:
https://youtu.be/Wb8gNfTiuks This video will explain Alien_X feats and don't worry this video is not talking about contemelia or Najilians
 
Well scaling to the Chrono Navigator is better than whatever AP feats Kuro brought up.

Also Kuro said Vilgax Attacks is non-canon, time to downgrade Way Big OvO.

@Quicksilver how familiar are you with existence erasure and phasing?
 
Greenshifter said:
Well scaling to the Chrono Navigator is better than whatever AP feats Kuro brought up.

Also Kuro said Vilgax Attacks is non-canon, time to downgrade Way Big OvO.

@Quicksilver how familiar are you with existence erasure and phasing? </div> what?? Did you at least watch the video? Also even if alien x doesn't scale to the crone navigator he wouldn't be low 2-C since he showed feats way beyond that level, also celestialsapiens are responsible of changing voice actor and art style and everything in the entire omniverse which contains at least 26 dimensions and this feat is far beyond low 2-C and even 2-B also here's another video : https://youtu.be/4h6pQR6uWDU (look at 20:47 but this time contemelia are included in this video so yeah sorry)
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@Greenshifter

The holes in time would have destroyed everything eventually, but Eon took a more direct approach. When Eon was intentionally trying to destroy everything, the Navigator shot out some form of energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmK-tDG9948

Eon used the Chrono Navigator to summon his minions with holes in time that he creates.

Gwen Tennyson: The holes in time... They're not closing!

The holes in time then gather to make time warps to other times and dimensions.

Professor Paradox: Careful, children! Crossing over the time warps can have disastrous consequences!

Eon: What is this, Time Walker? You tricked me!

Professor Paradox: On the contrary, I warned you. Stop this now or all of existence will be destroyed!

Eon: No! If I cannot rule the Cosmos then I will be the one to destroy it! Aaah!

Eon shoots out energy from the Navigator.
 
I dont see any reason not to treat is as hax, considering literally everything else the Chrono Navigator has done was hax-related. And again, destroying reality, which is a form of reality warping, is already listed as hax on this site
 
It seems I am not against this anymore but I still want to hear what Professor Kukui wants to say about this matter
 
Yeah and I would like Andy to clarify his stance and accept the weapons as hax-based. But both seem to be preoccupied.
 
Yes I am still on board with the upgrades, now what is even left to be discussed here?
 
dunno, it's been weeks and nobody has brought any rebuttal as for why the timebomb + the chrono navigator dont work via hax, and they would also have to explain why alien X doesnt scale to a weapon he recreated from nothingness using only its creation power.
 
@Crab ah but can I edit the pages of the Anihilaarg and CTB and put existence erasure on there as well as tell Kukui his hax point is moot now that the Chrono Navigator works via 2B space-time manipulation that scales to it's AP?
 
Bump, didn't really get an answer to my question and I'm gonna need explicit staff approval if I wanna edit those pages and some confirmation that 2-B space-time manipulation that scales to AP is accepted as well wouldn't hurt either.
 
The original chain of threads started in August... Regardless why don't you give your opinion Quicksilver? Kukui said that if sufficient staff agrees with a Chrono Navigator that has 2-B space-time manipulation (hax) scaling to it's AP then the thread is over.
 
Greenshifter said:
The original chain of threads started in August... Regardless why don't you give your opinion Quicksilver? Kukui said that if sufficient staff agrees with a Chrono Navigator that has 2-B space-time manipulation (hax) scaling to it's AP then the thread is over.
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I stand by what i said in the previous 2-B threads. Nothing has changed. I'm still in agreement.
 
But the thing is do you agree with the Chrono Navigator using hax that scales to it's AP or just that if the Chrono Navigator uses AP, that Alien X scales to it, since the former needs a lot less staff agreement since it only changes the working of the Navigator and as a side result Alien X scales to it regardless of hax or AP.
 
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