• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Abeloth and Luke upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
There was actually going to be a thread about this, but yes Luke and the Ones should scale.

Seed, Sadow used the Force to power a weapon that could bust stars and Jerec became powerful enough to cause supernovas with a thought in the Valley of the Jedi.
 
Theirs also a feat apparently with a force power being explicitly stated to be able to destroy entire solar systems, or something like that.
 
Can we turn this thread into a general Star Wars upgrade? There's Repp's calc with Viviate. Ever and I have agreed to upgrade the Sith Lords / Jedi Masters that scale.
 
@Matt

As I said before, it's Lina's calc, not mine. I just preserved it on a blog during the previous mishap.

As for Jerec, Ever told me that he never managed to actually get this level of power since he was stopped first. The statement it comes from is a warning as to what would happen if he did get that power. So I don't think it would scale to anyone aside from The Ones, the most powerful Force beings in the Galaxy.

That said, the Vitiate calc would scale to a number of top tier Jedi and Sith such as Mace Windu, Yoda, and Sidious.
 
also, maybe an upgrade for Boba Fett? legends continuity? ill get to that after we do the most important upgrades
 
@Crop

The Ones are literally The Embodiment of the Force

The Daughter is the Light Side, The Son is the Dark Side, The Father is the Balance between Sides, and Abeloth (The Mother) is the Chaos between Sides.

They scale to literally everything in the Verse, there are multiple statements that they are the most powerful beings in the SW Universe (Safe for the Low 2-C obscurities) and the Father is stated multiple times to be the most powerful Force user in all of Star Wars.
 
That really doesn't matter much once you understand that the Force is what binds the entire Star Wars Universe and is a part of every being. The Ones are the most powerful characters generally.
 
well, they were capable tearing the fabric of the universe. that's a feat that doesn't apply to any but them, its safe to assume that they are the most powerful
 
In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can. The Father maintained balance between his Daughter and his Son, who expressed affinity to the light and dark side of the Force, respectively. The Father knew his days were numbered -- facing his impending demise, he needed to find another to keep the balance. His goal was the same described in an ancient Jedi prophecy -- the rise of a Chosen One who will bring balance to the Force.
Source: The Star Wars Databank

https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153

Abeloth was no castaway, no mere woman marooned here for thirty years. She was much more - a manifestation of an ancient power so dark and hideous it was beyond human comprehension.
Source: Fate of the Jedi: Abyss

You're working with Abeloth.
I am programmed to obey a strong will. The girl is strong, you are stronger, Sword of the Jedi, but neither of you can break the hold she has on me. She is older and more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Source: Fate of the Jedi: Allies

"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other."
Source: The Clone Wars: Overlords

The three all powerful beings of Mortis can assume strange shapes and exemplify the dark side, the light side, and the principle of balance.
Source: Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side: The Science of Creating Life

Our abilities were bestowed by the spirits. The Winged Goddess and the Fanged God [Daughter and Son] bestow the passive and aggressive energies that animate every creature and allow each to draw breath.
Source: Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side: Wild Power

During the Clone Wars, an immense monolith appeared in the Chrelythiumn system, broadcasting an ancient Jedi distress code. Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ahsoka Tano investigated the kilometers-wide artifact, and were drawn into a paradise realm inhabited by unspeakably powerful Force-wielders. These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force.
Source: StarWars.Com

That good already?
 
" Tear the fabric of the Universe " . Doesn't that sound kinda tier 3 to me ? I agree with an upgrade for Luke and Co.

Real questions : Who scales to The Ones, and who scales to World Razer ?
 
if we make this a general star wars thread then i suggest we all take a look at this and bring the problem and answer it in this thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/828007
 
However, The Ones COULD be 3-A considering how they are literally The Force, and The Daughter dying was affecting the entire Force.

As the Daughter dies, the Force beings to fall out of balance. Using her last strength, the Daughter serves as a channel for the Force, releasing her ebbing life energies to revive Ahsoka and remove the dark side's stain.
Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

I need Ever's thoughts, however.
 
@Matt

It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

But real talk, wanna summarize all the changes we have planned? We've barely covered them currently.
 
So. "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" for The Ones and Grandmaster Luke Skywalker, or just "At least 4-A"?
 
The striking strength of Force users seems way too low. If they can damage other Jedi/Sith and use the same source they generate multi-continental energies with to amp their physical stats, why is it millions of times lower than their AP?
 
That is one falsehood that will change. Ever and I found so much wrong with the profiles.

Luke literally broke three of Abeloth's ribs with a punch. That confirms that their Striking Strength scales.
 
I always had the same question, way thier Striking Strenght didn't scale from their AP?


I mean, both are via Force amp
 
It's because there's been a lot of downplay in our Star Wars profiles, mostly because people only watch the movies / cartoons and think that the Jedi are barely superhuman.
 
Even in the Disney Canon you have low-tiers doing Town level feats and Jedi moving at Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic+ speeds.
 
Their speeds were downgraded severely in the Disney Canon; they are only Relativistic in the Extended Universe, and even that calculation seems to be iffy.

Anyways, regarding the Striking Strength of Star Wars characters, ChaosTheory and I had a conversation about this.

Spoiler
Lina Shields wrote
I was wondering, would it be appropriate to place all the Jedi/Sith at Class GJ striking strength? I know that you have done actual calculations for this. However, it just seems to me that those were casual strikes, and not representations of their true power.
Also, didn't the Jedi/Sith at one point tank and push back Force Pushes from other Jedi/Sith? Wouldn't it take Force augmented physical strength to perform something like this?

It's kinda like in Dragonball Z/Fate series where a Solar System level character does a casual ki blast, or a punch, and we only see parts of a cliff/boulder destroyed. AKA: fiction.

I may be going off a tangent here, but it seems to be that since the Jedi/Sith can perform from Town level to Small Island level feats via the Force (higher in the EU), shouldn't their Striking Strength correlate to their Force abilities since the Jedi/Sith directly use the Force to augment their physical capabilities?


ChaosTheory wrote
In general Class GJ is fairly broad as it trickles all the way down to Ahsoka for having physically not been completely or immediately overwhelmed by General Grievous way back in Season 1 of TCW. Skilled as she was, she was still a neophyte and hardly on her way to Knighthood.
Not how it works given you have things like Force Barriers and Defense to chew away at the energy being imparted onto a Force Users. It doesn't effect the muscles so much as form a layer of protection over their skin/body/etc to mitigate the force exerted.

The Force is bizarre in that their physical amplification is incredibly inefficient and there are few if any showings I can think of that would warrant higher striking power

Especially when the Force is largely what determines durability and needs to be consciously applied. Its why you can have Kas'im block Bane's TK with a Force Barrier but the Rakatan Temple collapsing still kills him. And that's not really an isolated example (notable being Mace Windu dying from free fall after surviving Sidious Lightning)


Lina Shields wrote
Another thing to ask: If a Force User's strikes were that much weaker compared to their other attacks, why would they bother physically attacking in the first place? Considering that their durability can go high enough to actually match their AP via force (Continent level), wouldn't this mean that the Jedi/Sith's AP would have to be Continent level in order to break through their passive force barriers? Their attacks would be bounced back with impunity otherwise...
Also, during Kas'im and the temple collapse, I did look over the part in the Bane novel again, and it seemed that Kas'im was very much drained of energy after that duel with Bane. This would mean that it does not apply to Kas'im's durability in this case, as Kas'im never had his force barrier up at that time.

In the Mace Windu example, he tanked a direct blast from Palpatine's force lightning; given how powerful Palpatine is, this would have likely placed Windu in a near-death state, meaning that Windu wouldn't have his force barrier up in this case.

Lastly: I remember that there was also a point where Darth Caedus "knocked away turbolasers and heavy blaster cannon fire which can generate kiloton to gigaton range yields" with his lightsaber. This speaks volumes of Darth Caedus' physical strength, which places him at Class TJ, or even Class EJ.


ChaosTheory wrote
Because, like I said, Force amplified defense is something they need to consciously apply and something that doesn't appear to be constantly applied in battle. If you were talking, say, the striking power of a lightsaber/sword strike broke through one of those Force Barrier Bubbles? Then sure, they'd need that kind of physical strength to do so. I've never seen an example of that though.
Bane had already negated the Force Barrier when the temple crashed, yes. It was something that Kas'im had to consciously erect and it wasn't something he had in use the entire fight though.

Windu was either too drained to amplify himself to super human, or just flat out unconscious

The point I'm trying to make is this shit isn't passive as you might find it in other series. They need to actively focus on keeping these stats up for them to stick around.

I'm going to wait for DarthAnt66 to finally post his Caedus respect thread before I even try touching that one. I've heard interpretations ranging from physical power to him using tutaminis.


So to keep the above conversation simplified...

The Class GJ Striking Strength comes from Ahsoka matching General Grievious, who is able to match Jedi/Sith in terms of physical strength, even with Force Augmentation. Here is a calculatio of Grievious' physical strength, for example. There is also a calculation of a different Jedi/Sith who punched through a wall, resulting in Building level AP.

  • The latter calculation is based on this segment of the video; the problem is that we do not explicity see Khem Val punching through said wall, thus this is be done via general Force Abilities instead.
    • What I am trying to say here is that since Grievious only has Building level (or Small Building level, if the latter feat is not accepted) striking strength, and the Jedi/Sith that matched Grievious would directly scale here.
  • In the third comment segment, I asked this question.
    • Another thing to ask: If a Force User's strikes were that much weaker compared to their other attacks, why would they bother physically attacking in the first place? Considering that their durability can go high enough to actually match their AP via force (Continent level), wouldn't this mean that the Jedi/Sith's AP would have to be Continent level in order to break through their passive force barriers? Their attacks would be bounced back with impunity otherwise...
    • The answer that I received was that Force amplified defense/durability is something that the Jedi/Sith need to concentrate to apply, and is not constantly applied in battle. An example of this would be that for a Jedi to survive a Continent-busting attack, said Jedi needs to place up a Force Barrier of equal strength in order to negate that attack; it is not a part of their natural durability. Another example here would be is when Kasim was not actively using the force to maintain his Force Barrier, a temple collapsing on him actually killed him, thus his durability without continually maintaining the Force Barrier would be much lower.
To sum it up, their Striking Strength cannot scale to their actual Force Abilities because

1. Grievious matched them in terms of physical strength, which all Jedi/Sith would directly scale to.

2. Jedi/Sith need to actively concentrate for a significant period of time to dish out their full power of their Force Abilities; it is not something that they can actively utilize in the middle of a duel with other users.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TegamiBachi25
Abeloth (Star Wars) vs Acheron (Honkai Star Rail)
Replies
29
Views
3K
DaReaperMan
DaReaperMan
StoneKillerz12
Star Wars Cosmology Revision (Part 1 of 4: Legends Cosmology Overview)
4 5 6
Replies
214
Views
13K
god_cat
god_cat
Alsotime
  • Locked
Rey Skywalker
Replies
23
Views
2K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Franstel
  • Locked
CRT: Fire Emblem Awakening massive manakete revision
Replies
19
Views
1K
Franstel
Franstel
Arkenis
Twin Star Exorcists - Part 1 Scaling Changes
Replies
0
Views
296
Arkenis
Arkenis
Back
Top