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Hey, can anyone remember the scans, interpretations, or implications of the infinite dimensions that take place in the Alovenus thread, where part of the story does it come from?
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A Wild Last Boss Appeared Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
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Generally, you will find all that stuff in the last few chapters where Ruphas ascends to fight Alovenus and we get an explanation of the verse's cosmology dumped on us.
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Does the message that imply the infinite dimension come from this message?
Because the word "universe" in this context does not refer to the universe that exists in the same plane as Midgrad, it refers to the whole universe. Where the higher the universe in this story is equal to the higher dimension (evident when Alovenus created a universe beyond the universe), and in this text it says that the universe is infinite.
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- #324
Infinite dimensions don't exist, what you posted there is referring to infinite universes as its says.
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If so, does it mean that there is no higher dimension at first?(Before Alovenus will created a universes beyond the universes) Because if it is text Expressing a direct meaning This means that there are an infinite number of universes in the same plane as the Midgrad.
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- #326
There are higher dimensions and there are infinite numbers of universes.
Though yea whether higher dimensions always existed, or those higher dimensions are referring to Alovenus creating universes transcended into insignificance by other universes, is unknown, cause the statements about higher dimensions come after Alovenus created the transcending universes.
Though the stuff about software's and computers came before Alovenus universe creation, and you can probably interpret those as referring to higher dimensions.
Though yea whether higher dimensions always existed, or those higher dimensions are referring to Alovenus creating universes transcended into insignificance by other universes, is unknown, cause the statements about higher dimensions come after Alovenus created the transcending universes.
Though the stuff about software's and computers came before Alovenus universe creation, and you can probably interpret those as referring to higher dimensions.
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This explanation sounds very similar to the one about dimensions. Here an analogy is made where the universes is software and parallel worlds are the saved data. In the explanation about dimensions says that the universe and parallel worlds are contained within one dimension, and in the analogy, the universe and parallel worlds are contained in a folder, there many folders and those folders are in a computer, and there are many computers.
It sounds pretty much the same to me. I think it's 2 different ways of explaining the same thing.
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Comparison computer software and higher dimensional. As you can say, these two things are the same, just use a different analogy
1. Alovenus creates a universe beyond the universe. During Alovenus' creation, she spoke of the strength of the characters, "Story B can reveal that a single universe is like a larger copyright cell." “And then, this is where story C comes in and states that the multiverse is just a single cell of an even larger cosmos.” This means that each time Alovenus creates a bigger universe, she compresses not universe just one universe, but an infinite number all universe to create a bigger one.
I'm not sure if this qualifies for higher dimensions. The things below an infinite number are just insignificant things (cells) for the things on top. But it looked similar to the Dark Tower's cosmology.
2. Higher universe would exist in higher dimensions resulting from comparisons computers and dimensions to have the universe in one dimension, These single dimensions also exist in higher dimensions at all levels, because higher dimensions created by fusing an infinite number of similar dimensions.
If you remember, translators often complain about redundant analogy about cakes that took place in the chapter 185, I think that's the reason of different comparisons. Comparisons of computers, Bigger Universe in each step and higher dimension, When I consider at it, I thought it was the same thing. based on the author's habits, I think he wanted to write the same analogies but use different words and add new information in those different comparisons.
This is why I think the universe in the above post does not mean that the universe is on the same plane as Midgrad and Higher universe = Higher dimension
Unfortunately, if the English language is not written entirely correctly, Google Translate may be misleading because the text is quite long.
I think that a higher universes = higher dimension because
1. Alovenus creates a universe beyond the universe. During Alovenus' creation, she spoke of the strength of the characters, "Story B can reveal that a single universe is like a larger copyright cell." “And then, this is where story C comes in and states that the multiverse is just a single cell of an even larger cosmos.” This means that each time Alovenus creates a bigger universe, she compresses not universe just one universe, but an infinite number all universe to create a bigger one.
I'm not sure if this qualifies for higher dimensions. The things below an infinite number are just insignificant things (cells) for the things on top. But it looked similar to the Dark Tower's cosmology.
2. Higher universe would exist in higher dimensions resulting from comparisons computers and dimensions to have the universe in one dimension, These single dimensions also exist in higher dimensions at all levels, because higher dimensions created by fusing an infinite number of similar dimensions.
If you remember, translators often complain about redundant analogy about cakes that took place in the chapter 185, I think that's the reason of different comparisons. Comparisons of computers, Bigger Universe in each step and higher dimension, When I consider at it, I thought it was the same thing. based on the author's habits, I think he wanted to write the same analogies but use different words and add new information in those different comparisons.
This is why I think the universe in the above post does not mean that the universe is on the same plane as Midgrad and Higher universe = Higher dimension
Unfortunately, if the English language is not written entirely correctly, Google Translate may be misleading because the text is quite long.
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If you incorporate, the software analogy imo, a dimension is the the universe and the parallel worlds, the same as software and saved data. Each universe would have it's own saved data (parallel worlds) so a dimension would only consist of a single universe and its parallel worlds.
A folder=a higher dimension, which would be an infinite number of dimensions. There are many folders, so there are many higher dimensions, infinite number of folders aren't stated to exist, neither are infinite number of higher dimensions.
A super high dimension=a computer, and there are many computers.
You don't really get like a hierarchy here, besides there being many higher dimensions, we don't know how many there are, besides there being many, and their relation to each other, ie is there an hierarchy which goes up and up where the higher one infinitely transcends the bottom?
The only way you get something like an hierarchy is to tie in the "bigger/larger" universes Alovenus created and say those universes are higher dimensions where the bigger one transcends the lower in a reality/fiction sort of difference due to the paper analogy.
What's said about those bigger universes is that they transcend each other and the smaller one is a cell in the bigger, the transcendence is currently interpreted to be like the paper analogy, in other words, its higher dimensions, is this warranted, idk.
The software analogy talks about folders outside folders, universes beyond the universe etc, but are those being stated to mean being beyond in a reality fiction difference or is it just beyond/outside as in being literally outside, again only thing that proves a reality/fiction difference for anything is higher dimensional beings being stated to able to toss away lower dimensional beings like paper.
I am getting a headache trying to make sense of all this, this is why i don't like tier 1, too complicated. If we just got a single cohesive explanation about universes and parallel world existing and universes beyond that which are infinitely transcendent to that, and this repeats like an infinite number of times, it would be simple, but instead seems like we are taking multiple different things stated at different times, and trying to put it all together.
Currently the ratings of the characters is based on the paper analogy and Alovenus larger universe creation repeated a hundred times, software and all this other stuff isn't really considered, i made a blog with all the relevant stuff. The final point/realm of god i understand from the previous crt as being this infinite canvas that any number of hierarchy can be inserted, so from that Alovenus and Ruphas Low 1-A rating won't ever change but in terms of the ratings below that, very complicated to wrap my head around.
A folder=a higher dimension, which would be an infinite number of dimensions. There are many folders, so there are many higher dimensions, infinite number of folders aren't stated to exist, neither are infinite number of higher dimensions.
A super high dimension=a computer, and there are many computers.
You don't really get like a hierarchy here, besides there being many higher dimensions, we don't know how many there are, besides there being many, and their relation to each other, ie is there an hierarchy which goes up and up where the higher one infinitely transcends the bottom?
The only way you get something like an hierarchy is to tie in the "bigger/larger" universes Alovenus created and say those universes are higher dimensions where the bigger one transcends the lower in a reality/fiction sort of difference due to the paper analogy.
What's said about those bigger universes is that they transcend each other and the smaller one is a cell in the bigger, the transcendence is currently interpreted to be like the paper analogy, in other words, its higher dimensions, is this warranted, idk.
The software analogy talks about folders outside folders, universes beyond the universe etc, but are those being stated to mean being beyond in a reality fiction difference or is it just beyond/outside as in being literally outside, again only thing that proves a reality/fiction difference for anything is higher dimensional beings being stated to able to toss away lower dimensional beings like paper.
I am getting a headache trying to make sense of all this, this is why i don't like tier 1, too complicated. If we just got a single cohesive explanation about universes and parallel world existing and universes beyond that which are infinitely transcendent to that, and this repeats like an infinite number of times, it would be simple, but instead seems like we are taking multiple different things stated at different times, and trying to put it all together.
Currently the ratings of the characters is based on the paper analogy and Alovenus larger universe creation repeated a hundred times, software and all this other stuff isn't really considered, i made a blog with all the relevant stuff. The final point/realm of god i understand from the previous crt as being this infinite canvas that any number of hierarchy can be inserted, so from that Alovenus and Ruphas Low 1-A rating won't ever change but in terms of the ratings below that, very complicated to wrap my head around.
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Alovenus Universe+, which chapter this scene ?? Thanks for answering
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I don't really get NEP type 2, but if you want to argue it, can give you the scans when I get home.
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Okey,
The state of Non-existence is refer to this sentence
"The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent."
This sentence meaning, alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed
I mean, you exist in State before your exist is Nep2 right??
The state of Non-existence is refer to this sentence
"The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent."
This sentence meaning, alovenus capable still exist in this state ( non existence state) where as same case before you existed
I mean, you exist in State before your exist is Nep2 right??
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I mean I'm all for it but idk if its enough, not sure the best with determining NEP. Sounds like something doe
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Ok back home now.
Alovenus gave herself the setting that she is immortal, can't die by any means
Now this is important cause we all know about Ruphas and Alovenus transcendence, ie whatever they face they will just transcend, be above in ap grant resistances etc. The baseline of a God is that they can create concepts, and paint their own colors on the blank white canavas that contains all creation
Alovenus setting of immortality then is very literal, and nothing will kill her, unless you're like Ruphas and just transcend above her.
As posted above, "The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent," is an ability Alovenus has, and it's again with fights on her level just a matter of ego, Ruphas could use this very same ability just by willing it, and it wouldn't kill Alovenus until Ruphas transcends higher again.
The translator of the series made a note about a previous translation, where another translator used the word "notion", which it more accurately means "concept". Examples of this:
"(i) During the fight between Alovenus and Ruphas, the “concept” of time was erased and time ceased to exist.
(ii) The raw for “The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.” (chapter 187) is “攻撃という概念を破壊して攻撃そのものを封じ、防御という概念を消し去って防御行動を取れなくする。” or strictly translated as, “The ability to destroy the very concept of attack to disallow attacking and the ability to erase the very concept of defense so that the enemy becomes unable to take defensive actions.”
(iii) Alovenus would come back even if her HP was erased” is strictly “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”."
So from this we can gather even if the concept of Alovenus HP was erased, she would still come back. And again from the above posted quote, even if she was made non-existent she would still come back.
Does that qualify for NEP2, idk, but in terms of AWLBA, no matter what ability you used against Alovenus, she won't die, unless you're Ruphas and just transcend above her.
Alovenus gave herself the setting that she is immortal, can't die by any means
Now this is important cause we all know about Ruphas and Alovenus transcendence, ie whatever they face they will just transcend, be above in ap grant resistances etc. The baseline of a God is that they can create concepts, and paint their own colors on the blank white canavas that contains all creation
Alovenus setting of immortality then is very literal, and nothing will kill her, unless you're like Ruphas and just transcend above her.
As posted above, "The ability to reverse time and make the opponent non-existent," is an ability Alovenus has, and it's again with fights on her level just a matter of ego, Ruphas could use this very same ability just by willing it, and it wouldn't kill Alovenus until Ruphas transcends higher again.
The translator of the series made a note about a previous translation, where another translator used the word "notion", which it more accurately means "concept". Examples of this:
"(i) During the fight between Alovenus and Ruphas, the “concept” of time was erased and time ceased to exist.
(ii) The raw for “The ability to seal all attacks and render the opponent incapable of taking defensive actions.” (chapter 187) is “攻撃という概念を破壊して攻撃そのものを封じ、防御という概念を消し去って防御行動を取れなくする。” or strictly translated as, “The ability to destroy the very concept of attack to disallow attacking and the ability to erase the very concept of defense so that the enemy becomes unable to take defensive actions.”
(iii) Alovenus would come back even if her HP was erased” is strictly “Alovenus would come back even if the very concept of her HP was erased”."
So from this we can gather even if the concept of Alovenus HP was erased, she would still come back. And again from the above posted quote, even if she was made non-existent she would still come back.
Does that qualify for NEP2, idk, but in terms of AWLBA, no matter what ability you used against Alovenus, she won't die, unless you're Ruphas and just transcend above her.
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Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl
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I think Aigokeros can get Time Manipulation.
In any event, it was originally arcane magic that would not have actually changed the day and night, however, such common sense from back in the game did not apply in this world, after all.
Aigokeros had actually changed this world’s time to night time. The sky was enveloped by creepy darkness as if the world was about to end.
Or moooorrrrreeee like… it’s that thing, you know. Like, what the hell is actually happening with the stars and rotation of the planet in this world?
If day and night were swapped in an instant, that meant that the planet just spun around at an incredible speed. Shouldn’t the sudden change in the speed of the spin be incredibly bad… Seriously, think about it logically for a moment.
To begin with, the rotation of the planet was governed by the law of inertia and I would have thought that once the speed was changed, it would stay in the changed state.
Taking the Earth, for example, it was believed that back in the day, each day was only five hours long, but because the speed of rotation slowly decreased over time, the day is currently 24 hours long.
So in the distant future, it’s hypothesised that the length of the day might further increase… oh, I derailed again.
Well, but yeah, it’s definitely that. Yeah, really, in this world, the Law-of-Physics-san really is not doing its job at all.
Chapter 87
In any event, it was originally arcane magic that would not have actually changed the day and night, however, such common sense from back in the game did not apply in this world, after all.
Aigokeros had actually changed this world’s time to night time. The sky was enveloped by creepy darkness as if the world was about to end.
Or moooorrrrreeee like… it’s that thing, you know. Like, what the hell is actually happening with the stars and rotation of the planet in this world?
If day and night were swapped in an instant, that meant that the planet just spun around at an incredible speed. Shouldn’t the sudden change in the speed of the spin be incredibly bad… Seriously, think about it logically for a moment.
To begin with, the rotation of the planet was governed by the law of inertia and I would have thought that once the speed was changed, it would stay in the changed state.
Taking the Earth, for example, it was believed that back in the day, each day was only five hours long, but because the speed of rotation slowly decreased over time, the day is currently 24 hours long.
So in the distant future, it’s hypothesised that the length of the day might further increase… oh, I derailed again.
Well, but yeah, it’s definitely that. Yeah, really, in this world, the Law-of-Physics-san really is not doing its job at all.
Chapter 87
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It's not really time manipulation, he just rotates the planet at a fast speed, which btw I did see before but dismissed because It's a massive outlier.
Calcs for this sort of feat are like 5-A at least.
Calcs for this sort of feat are like 5-A at least.
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl
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I see, I didn't pay much attention to it.
After I looked back at it, it turned out to be really not a time manipulation.
Alright then, thanks for the explanation
After I looked back at it, it turned out to be really not a time manipulation.
Alright then, thanks for the explanation
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Guys where i can read AWLBA with a good translate??
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Guys i had a question : is Ruphas Fear Manipulation (Coercion) is Passive??
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No, coercion has to be activated.
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IIRC that skill was active independently and Ruphas need to turn that ability off first even its a hard one
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It was activate at first when Ruphas didn't know what was going on, or how to use her skills, then she turned it off, to suggest the ability is always on 24/7 is wrong though.
After that first instance, it's something she always activates, otherwise she wouldn't even be able to walk around a city.
After that first instance, it's something she always activates, otherwise she wouldn't even be able to walk around a city.
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Anyway can Ruphas/Alovenas Intereact with AE1 Being?
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Technically, they haven't done that, however concept manipulation would allow them to, since they can destroy concepts.
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IIRC destroy Concept≠NPI
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Also Celestial,is that true White Room is does'nt had Concepts of size but it size is Infinite???
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It's a blank canvas which is infinite with no space or time.
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Is that the blank canvas that stated to "does'nt had Concepts" or something?
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It's a blank white canvas which has black spots scattered on it, those black spots being universes, and we know infinite universes exist.
It spreads in all directions and is infinite and endless, the concept of size doesn't exist, because it's meaningless to it, as any "size" can fit into it.
Anyway the concepts that don't exist there are size and time.
It spreads in all directions and is infinite and endless, the concept of size doesn't exist, because it's meaningless to it, as any "size" can fit into it.
Anyway the concepts that don't exist there are size and time.
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Imma do some little calcs here <(")
The Earth Ouroboros decided to throw away his laxness towards the fight and flew out into space.
As she observed his actions, Aquarius quickly turned pale after figuring out what he wanted to do.
This is bad… we can’t let him do what he’s about to do!
“This is bad. Chase after him! Letting him get away would be really bad!”
“Eh?”
“Didn’t you hear him just now!? If you leave him be, he’s really going to destroy this entire solar system along with everything else nearby! The Earth Ouroboros can accomplish that!”
and
If the Earth Ouroboros was close to Midgard, they might have been able to make it in time to interrupt him. Unfortunately, the Earth Ouroboros had taken this possibility into account and moved away to the edges of the solar system.
It was an incredible speed. But with his large body, it was not impossible.
Let’s say that there was a giant human being that was bigger than a galaxy. If that person walked at the pace of an ordinary person, relative to their size, then their walking speed would easily be faster than the speed of light.
The distance from Midgard to the edge of the solar system was approximately 28 billion kilometres. For an ordinary person, it would be considered a vast distance that they would not be able to traverse.[3]
But for an ouroboros, with their size, it was not a distance that they could not reach. This was especially true if one considered how fast they could fly despite their large body.
In any event… it was impossible to obstruct him now.
*this was done within a short time frame btw( it took him like... 6 sentences of conversation between Aires and Aquarius to get there)
Aries replied with a slightly out-of-the-norm response whilst Virgo was flustered.
Exactly, at the end of it all, they were still living things.
Although one might retort that it’s too weird to claim that they were living things after having gone through such a large-scale battle, they were actually still living things.
If Sagittarius was here, then he might have been able to do something using his divine magic, but unfortunately, he was stuck in a battle with the Wood Ouroboros at this moment. They could not expect him to provide any assistance.
“… Damn it, we won’t make it in time!”
At the outer edge of the solar system, the Earth Ouroboros bit down on his tail and started drawing a circle.
- The calc: S= 28 x 10^9 km( pretty straightforward confirmed); as for the timeframe, I took the average speaking rate(150wpm) and with them speaking 80 words in total( I counted 1/1 btw ;-; ), the time frame would be about 32 secs => t = 30 seconds ( since they're abit rush u know, like who won't? =). It should be noted that raw scans would give us more appropriate timeframe for the calc but unfortunately I can't find them( would be appreciate if sbd helped me tho )
=> V= S/t = 28x10^9/30 = 9,33x10^8 km/s ( approximately) = 3112.153008199 Sol (Mftl+)
*All of the quotes are from chapter 179: https://twomorefreethoughts.com/awlba-c179/
- Ok so this is a speed upgrade for The Earth Ouroboros
- The feat: Earth Ouroboros flew to the edge of solar system
The Earth Ouroboros decided to throw away his laxness towards the fight and flew out into space.
As she observed his actions, Aquarius quickly turned pale after figuring out what he wanted to do.
This is bad… we can’t let him do what he’s about to do!
“This is bad. Chase after him! Letting him get away would be really bad!”
“Eh?”
“Didn’t you hear him just now!? If you leave him be, he’s really going to destroy this entire solar system along with everything else nearby! The Earth Ouroboros can accomplish that!”
and
If the Earth Ouroboros was close to Midgard, they might have been able to make it in time to interrupt him. Unfortunately, the Earth Ouroboros had taken this possibility into account and moved away to the edges of the solar system.
It was an incredible speed. But with his large body, it was not impossible.
Let’s say that there was a giant human being that was bigger than a galaxy. If that person walked at the pace of an ordinary person, relative to their size, then their walking speed would easily be faster than the speed of light.
The distance from Midgard to the edge of the solar system was approximately 28 billion kilometres. For an ordinary person, it would be considered a vast distance that they would not be able to traverse.[3]
But for an ouroboros, with their size, it was not a distance that they could not reach. This was especially true if one considered how fast they could fly despite their large body.
In any event… it was impossible to obstruct him now.
*this was done within a short time frame btw( it took him like... 6 sentences of conversation between Aires and Aquarius to get there)
Aries replied with a slightly out-of-the-norm response whilst Virgo was flustered.
Exactly, at the end of it all, they were still living things.
Although one might retort that it’s too weird to claim that they were living things after having gone through such a large-scale battle, they were actually still living things.
If Sagittarius was here, then he might have been able to do something using his divine magic, but unfortunately, he was stuck in a battle with the Wood Ouroboros at this moment. They could not expect him to provide any assistance.
“… Damn it, we won’t make it in time!”
At the outer edge of the solar system, the Earth Ouroboros bit down on his tail and started drawing a circle.
- The calc: S= 28 x 10^9 km( pretty straightforward confirmed); as for the timeframe, I took the average speaking rate(150wpm) and with them speaking 80 words in total( I counted 1/1 btw ;-; ), the time frame would be about 32 secs => t = 30 seconds ( since they're abit rush u know, like who won't? =). It should be noted that raw scans would give us more appropriate timeframe for the calc but unfortunately I can't find them( would be appreciate if sbd helped me tho )
=> V= S/t = 28x10^9/30 = 9,33x10^8 km/s ( approximately) = 3112.153008199 Sol (Mftl+)
*All of the quotes are from chapter 179: https://twomorefreethoughts.com/awlba-c179/
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also, as far as I'm aware, Earth Ouroboros' AP should get: Solar system level ( with time prep). This has been stated by Aquarius( who used to be under his control so she must knew him very well ):
“This is bad. Chase after him! Letting him get away would be really bad!”
“Eh?”
“Didn’t you hear him just now!? If you leave him be, he’s really going to destroy this entire solar system along with everything else nearby! The Earth Ouroboros can accomplish that!”
Aquarius was originally a tool used by the deity. As such, she had general information about the ouroboroses. This allowed her to quickly realise the despair-inducing situation that they were about to encounter.
- In fact, he could have done so, if not for Libra(whom I will make a similar calc in the future)
The Earth Ouroboros used Black Hole Eclipse!
Pluto’s HP: 0 / 500 000
Pluto: “My adventure sadly ends here!”
Neptune’s HP: 0 / 850 000
Neptune: “Are you supposed to be a machine that only kills planets or something!?”
Uranus’s HP: 0 / 999 999
Uranus: “Cami—… You are my—…!”
Saturn’s HP: 6 300 002 / 6 500 000
Saturn: “Humph, as if an attack like this will—…”
Saturn’s HP: 0 / 6 500 000
Saturn: “Don’t use your Z skill!”
Jupiter’s HP: 0 / 4 200 000
Jupiter: “May there forever be glory to our solar system!”
Venus’s HP: 5 000 000 / 5 000 000
Venus: “I got away.”
welp, that's pretty legit i would say <(")
* edit: I'm a huge fan of SM and seeing this almost killed me ;-;
“This is bad. Chase after him! Letting him get away would be really bad!”
“Eh?”
“Didn’t you hear him just now!? If you leave him be, he’s really going to destroy this entire solar system along with everything else nearby! The Earth Ouroboros can accomplish that!”
Aquarius was originally a tool used by the deity. As such, she had general information about the ouroboroses. This allowed her to quickly realise the despair-inducing situation that they were about to encounter.
- In fact, he could have done so, if not for Libra(whom I will make a similar calc in the future)
The Earth Ouroboros used Black Hole Eclipse!
Pluto’s HP: 0 / 500 000
Pluto: “My adventure sadly ends here!”
Neptune’s HP: 0 / 850 000
Neptune: “Are you supposed to be a machine that only kills planets or something!?”
Uranus’s HP: 0 / 999 999
Uranus: “Cami—… You are my—…!”
Saturn’s HP: 6 300 002 / 6 500 000
Saturn: “Humph, as if an attack like this will—…”
Saturn’s HP: 0 / 6 500 000
Saturn: “Don’t use your Z skill!”
Jupiter’s HP: 0 / 4 200 000
Jupiter: “May there forever be glory to our solar system!”
Venus’s HP: 5 000 000 / 5 000 000
Venus: “I got away.”
welp, that's pretty legit i would say <(")
* edit: I'm a huge fan of SM and seeing this almost killed me ;-;
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Post these in a blog to get them evaluated.
The speed feat would only just scale to the Ouroboros flight speed.
We already rate the Earth Ouroboros as 4-A with cyclical world. It's stated that the attraction of cyclical world was faraway pulling stars, plus we have statements about destroying the solar system, along with everything else nearby.
The speed feat would only just scale to the Ouroboros flight speed.
We already rate the Earth Ouroboros as 4-A with cyclical world. It's stated that the attraction of cyclical world was faraway pulling stars, plus we have statements about destroying the solar system, along with everything else nearby.
