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"Angela is a time lord"
That's not a cross over, it's a vague reference. Just saying
That's not a cross over, it's a vague reference. Just saying
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A Tale of Crossing Over Canons
- Thread starter Matthew_Schroeder
- Start date
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- Tags
- canon crossovers
- Status
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That was more a fun additional reference (the main meat is the Marvel stuff)
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GodzillaSaikou The Lewd King said:
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Still waiting for 4-B GodzillaSir Ovens said:
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So, from what I am getting from the scans, while searching for feats for the scooby doo gang (will provide scans later in a different thread)
Daphne and Fred are able to destroy mechanical dragons that were also able to spit fire.
Shaggy got Earth Manipulation and super speed thanks to his other transformation, Shaggy Marvel (He was able to make earthquakes by shaking his legs in fear), not to include some other powers that will be talked about in other thread, and resistance to mind manipulation and Fear manipulation, also to add that he also was possessed by the Phantom Stranger.
Velma got a transformation called Velma Marvel with Wind Manipulation and Resistance to fire and helped defeat Shazam enemies with Shaggy (She supposedly had more powers but she only showcased those two, just like shaggy.)
Scooby Doo have the whole Fear manipulation resistance, the thing while being possessed by the Spectre)
Shaggy and Scooby also have the power of the yellow ring of fear.
Daphne and Velma received training of Wonder Woman.
And there is a thing that I don't know how to talk about.
Is about a feat that I don't know if is just a joke for the words chosen to do a curse or if its a feat for reality warp of Shaggy.
Themyscera had a curse in which if a men put a feet in said Island, all the Amazoness would lose their power, but when Shaggy felt on his ass in the ground and not on his feet it happens like that.
" But how? Aphrodite's law clearly states that the amazons lose their powers if a man sets a foot on the island." The Duke of deception states.
" Maybe is because Shaggy's feet never touched the ground." Daphne says to him.
" Or like, maybe is because I am not much of a ma ..." Shaggy says desiorented.
And yes, shaggy saying that he isn't much of a man is in bold for whatever reason, so I wanted more info before talking about something like that.
Daphne and Fred are able to destroy mechanical dragons that were also able to spit fire.
Shaggy got Earth Manipulation and super speed thanks to his other transformation, Shaggy Marvel (He was able to make earthquakes by shaking his legs in fear), not to include some other powers that will be talked about in other thread, and resistance to mind manipulation and Fear manipulation, also to add that he also was possessed by the Phantom Stranger.
Velma got a transformation called Velma Marvel with Wind Manipulation and Resistance to fire and helped defeat Shazam enemies with Shaggy (She supposedly had more powers but she only showcased those two, just like shaggy.)
Scooby Doo have the whole Fear manipulation resistance, the thing while being possessed by the Spectre)
Shaggy and Scooby also have the power of the yellow ring of fear.
Daphne and Velma received training of Wonder Woman.
And there is a thing that I don't know how to talk about.
Is about a feat that I don't know if is just a joke for the words chosen to do a curse or if its a feat for reality warp of Shaggy.
Themyscera had a curse in which if a men put a feet in said Island, all the Amazoness would lose their power, but when Shaggy felt on his ass in the ground and not on his feet it happens like that.
" But how? Aphrodite's law clearly states that the amazons lose their powers if a man sets a foot on the island." The Duke of deception states.
" Maybe is because Shaggy's feet never touched the ground." Daphne says to him.
" Or like, maybe is because I am not much of a ma ..." Shaggy says desiorented.
And yes, shaggy saying that he isn't much of a man is in bold for whatever reason, so I wanted more info before talking about something like that.
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Sure Ant.
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- Thread starter
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No, absolutely not. Keep this open for all people to read and post, and stop overthinking and fearing anything.
I made this thread and I do not want everyone who isn't a Staff to be silenced. They have every right to comment.
I made this thread and I do not want everyone who isn't a Staff to be silenced. They have every right to comment.
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Matthew, what do you think about the Nickelodeon Multiverse and the Cartoon Multiverse, given by the Nicktoons Unite crossover and the Cartoon Network Punchtime Explosion XL Brawl games?
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But they already have commented, and a decision has been reached that we should modify the existing regulation. If the staff are going to hammer out the specifics of how to word it properly, we need to keep the discussion controlled and non-chaotic, without derailment.
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This does not need to be staff only.
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But a decision has already been reached. Now all that is left is to hammer out the details of the new regulation, and that is part of the staff duties per definition. If we keep this open for all to comment, it will be much harder to get anything constructive done.
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Then make another thread entirely for fleshing out the new rules.... Leave this one open for the public.
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We can absolutely do that here. You're exaggerating the issues that will occur.
We can get things done in a thread that's not staff only. It's not like it's impossible to do here.
We can get things done in a thread that's not staff only. It's not like it's impossible to do here.
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Stop with the derailment through slippery slope, Antvasima. Seriously, you're always thinking the world will collapse if things aren't always immediately closed and dropped. Nothing will happen if we do not close this. And I'd like to hear the opinion of normal people yet.
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Okay. I think that it is much easier to organise a staff only thread, and don't appreciate that you keep accusing me of various issues in public, especially as I am just trying to do my job of seeing to the sustained longterm wellbeing of the wiki, but alright, let's try it your way.
Does anybody have an informed suggestion for a new regulation that takes into account that only canon crossovers should be used, and then only the ones that do not otherwise contradict the statistics of the franchises, along with that we need to use common sense for case-by-case analysis?
Does anybody have an informed suggestion for a new regulation that takes into account that only canon crossovers should be used, and then only the ones that do not otherwise contradict the statistics of the franchises, along with that we need to use common sense for case-by-case analysis?
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How would this effect composite profiles?
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I would say repeated cross overs between franhises should at validity to them. Should the character be segnificalty more powerful than an original counter part with the canon only flowing one way, then they should recieve a unique profile regarding on their counter part in said canon. SMT Dante is a pre existing example of what I meanAntvasima said:
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I agree with ant mostly, as it is (probably, I can't possibly know) easier to discuss the matter in a staff only, and while I understand why many would want otherwise, trying to say that he is overexagerationg is simply not true, if you disagree then it can be done whitout saying that how he wants to do it is bad, and should instead explain why in a respectful manner.
That said, I see noreason to make it staff only, as it doesn't seem to be chaotic, but I will just accept what ant decides, it has been agreed at what people want and its not like they are going to be ignore
That said, I see noreason to make it staff only, as it doesn't seem to be chaotic, but I will just accept what ant decides, it has been agreed at what people want and its not like they are going to be ignore
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Without reading through all responses, but just through the top, let me give my opinion on a few things.
Spare me "case by case basis" please. It is a terrible standard to have, as it is the standard of having no standards at all (and leads to inconsistent decisions and favouritism). If one sits down an properly fomulates what one wants to accept I am relatively sure one can cover the vast majority of all cases through proper criteria.
That aside to the suggestion itself:
Nobody has a problem with canonly shared universes, I believe. They are legitimate with our current standards. That are of course also all crossovers that canonly happened for both sides.
Likewise there is (in the current rules, I believe) no problem with using feats from a different franchise if they are explicitely referenced in the (one sided) crossover itself. For example if the 1-A descriptions of the Cthulhu Mythos are repeated in the crossover one can of course scale from that.
Buuut if they are not, then I am against using them. Without direct mention of the feats, we simply lack a sufficiently strong argument for consistency between canon and crossover, even if there are some franchises for which there aren't any inconsistencies. Actually, it would be a hastly generalization to assume consistency until proven inconsistent.
Spare me "case by case basis" please. It is a terrible standard to have, as it is the standard of having no standards at all (and leads to inconsistent decisions and favouritism). If one sits down an properly fomulates what one wants to accept I am relatively sure one can cover the vast majority of all cases through proper criteria.
That aside to the suggestion itself:
Nobody has a problem with canonly shared universes, I believe. They are legitimate with our current standards. That are of course also all crossovers that canonly happened for both sides.
Likewise there is (in the current rules, I believe) no problem with using feats from a different franchise if they are explicitely referenced in the (one sided) crossover itself. For example if the 1-A descriptions of the Cthulhu Mythos are repeated in the crossover one can of course scale from that.
Buuut if they are not, then I am against using them. Without direct mention of the feats, we simply lack a sufficiently strong argument for consistency between canon and crossover, even if there are some franchises for which there aren't any inconsistencies. Actually, it would be a hastly generalization to assume consistency until proven inconsistent.
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- Thread starter
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@DontTalk
Absolutely disagree. Case-By-Case is to understand that no two examples in fiction are alike, and to try to automatically categorize and asign a response to them all is folly, and tends to ensure in problems with the regulations whenever an example is found which does not align with it. I've never seen evidence of it leading to favouritism or inconsistent. In fact, absolute strict regulations tend to be inconsistently followed and often ignored, because they cannot hope to encompass all examples.
Aside from that.
I don't believe you understand. My point is that if a Verse is unarguably canon to another, even if only one-sidedly so, then scaling ought to be fine. One does not need the quotes to be repeated in your face in the crossover, as the crossover already assumes the reader / audience to hold familiarity with both sides, and would rather not treat you like an idiot.
Nobody is assuming consistency until proven otherwise. The basic assumption is that if a Verse is included in another's cosmology, it will automatically scale, because it is basic logic. Likewise, many crossovers are essential to the plot of at least one side, and thus cannot be written off as meaningless cameos or references.
Likewise, if the events of a story where a character performs a feat is Canon to another universe, and a character from said universes faces off against him, then it should, if not proven inconsistent, scale. To suggest otherwise is to imply that though all of a character's stories happened, their feats cannot count because... Reasons. This notion of "Feats cannot apply unless every story repeats them" is absurd, and needs to stop. It demands the audience be treated as idiots and spoon-fed information, and basically treats a character's entire history as a "Schrodinger's Cat" phenomena, where it simultaneously happened and did not happen depending on the moment.
Absolutely disagree. Case-By-Case is to understand that no two examples in fiction are alike, and to try to automatically categorize and asign a response to them all is folly, and tends to ensure in problems with the regulations whenever an example is found which does not align with it. I've never seen evidence of it leading to favouritism or inconsistent. In fact, absolute strict regulations tend to be inconsistently followed and often ignored, because they cannot hope to encompass all examples.
Aside from that.
I don't believe you understand. My point is that if a Verse is unarguably canon to another, even if only one-sidedly so, then scaling ought to be fine. One does not need the quotes to be repeated in your face in the crossover, as the crossover already assumes the reader / audience to hold familiarity with both sides, and would rather not treat you like an idiot.
Nobody is assuming consistency until proven otherwise. The basic assumption is that if a Verse is included in another's cosmology, it will automatically scale, because it is basic logic. Likewise, many crossovers are essential to the plot of at least one side, and thus cannot be written off as meaningless cameos or references.
Likewise, if the events of a story where a character performs a feat is Canon to another universe, and a character from said universes faces off against him, then it should, if not proven inconsistent, scale. To suggest otherwise is to imply that though all of a character's stories happened, their feats cannot count because... Reasons. This notion of "Feats cannot apply unless every story repeats them" is absurd, and needs to stop. It demands the audience be treated as idiots and spoon-fed information, and basically treats a character's entire history as a "Schrodinger's Cat" phenomena, where it simultaneously happened and did not happen depending on the moment.
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Ok then
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Can we please focus on the main issue of how to word the new regulation text so it takes into account any potential problems?
Just letting people freely use any crossover, such as scaling Gan and the Glory from the Cthulhu Mythos and Marvel respectively, would obviously be a bad idea, as would scaling Bugs Bunny and Scooby-Doo from any crossover they have appeared in, so we have to take precautions.
Simply taking for granted that people will consistently properly use common sense without any guidelines whatsoever, or causing lots of problems for the staff that have to deal with many very unreasonable content revision threads is wishful thinking.
I am fine with revising the rules according to my previous post though, and Ryukama seemed to reason in similar ways if I understood his own post properly.
Just letting people freely use any crossover, such as scaling Gan and the Glory from the Cthulhu Mythos and Marvel respectively, would obviously be a bad idea, as would scaling Bugs Bunny and Scooby-Doo from any crossover they have appeared in, so we have to take precautions.
Simply taking for granted that people will consistently properly use common sense without any guidelines whatsoever, or causing lots of problems for the staff that have to deal with many very unreasonable content revision threads is wishful thinking.
I am fine with revising the rules according to my previous post though, and Ryukama seemed to reason in similar ways if I understood his own post properly.
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"Just letting people freely use any crossover, such as scaling Gan and the Glory from the Cthulhu Mythos and Marvel respectively, would obviously be a bad idea, as would scaling Bugs Bunny and Scooby-Doo from any crossover they have appeared in, so we have to take precautions."
Nobody is going to do either. You are exaggerating.
But yes, we do need to form of regulation, preferably a set of guidelines that help users understand when Crossovers are accepted and when they are not. It would also be best to recommend users to make threads asking if one crossover can be accepted as canon, posting their reasoning as to why they think so.
Nobody is going to do either. You are exaggerating.
But yes, we do need to form of regulation, preferably a set of guidelines that help users understand when Crossovers are accepted and when they are not. It would also be best to recommend users to make threads asking if one crossover can be accepted as canon, posting their reasoning as to why they think so.
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Well, Ant, frankly, I wouldn't be able to scale Shaggy and the others to the DC characters because they are the Super Friends version, and I don't know how strong they are.
But to say about Scooby-Doo Crossover, it appears that Flinstones and the Jetsons as other Hannah Barbera characters exist at the same universe as the Super Friends DC universe.
Other thing to say is that FoP and Jimmy Neutron are canonly accepted crossover with three crossover movies and a lot of games, giving the prep feat to Jimmy as 2-C because he stalemated an amped Crocker that was able to defeat a lot of soldier fairies and Jorge Von Strange.
And there is also Shirley from that same crossover, who I think is 2-C for merging two universes (FoP and Jimmy Neutron universe)
But to say about Scooby-Doo Crossover, it appears that Flinstones and the Jetsons as other Hannah Barbera characters exist at the same universe as the Super Friends DC universe.
Other thing to say is that FoP and Jimmy Neutron are canonly accepted crossover with three crossover movies and a lot of games, giving the prep feat to Jimmy as 2-C because he stalemated an amped Crocker that was able to defeat a lot of soldier fairies and Jorge Von Strange.
And there is also Shirley from that same crossover, who I think is 2-C for merging two universes (FoP and Jimmy Neutron universe)
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Given that I have dealt with thousands of content revision threads at this point, I have seen plenty of them with even more stupid premises than I gave examples for, so I do not think that I am exaggerating at all. Regulations have to take several precautions, or I and other staff members have to deal with the fallout.
However, again, I would appreciate help with wording a regulation text based on what I posted earlier.
However, again, I would appreciate help with wording a regulation text based on what I posted earlier.
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@Cursed
You are not helping.
You are not helping.
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Sorry.Matthew Schroeder said:
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I'll try to figure this out in the afternoon with Everlasting, who was of great help in writing the OP.
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@Matthew
Okay. Thank you for the help, but please try to understand that I am not being paranoid here. Rather, I am talking from experience, and trying to do my job regarding ensuring structural stability for the wiki.
Okay. Thank you for the help, but please try to understand that I am not being paranoid here. Rather, I am talking from experience, and trying to do my job regarding ensuring structural stability for the wiki.
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I just want to help really.
Even If I sound weird or simply idiotic.
Guess I was a bit enthusiastic at the idea, my bad.
Even If I sound weird or simply idiotic.
Guess I was a bit enthusiastic at the idea, my bad.
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@Ant
Okay, but I don't think you seem to understand that even if people suggest stuff such as 4-B Scooby Doo based on a Crossover where he becomes a Yellow Lantern, it's very obvious bullshit that won't ever get accepted.
Serious people won't do shit like "Hey the Warrior of Light scales to Shinryu let's make Doctor Who scale from Marvel". The only one who would even think of suggesting that shit are either wankers, severely misinformed, or trolls.
Okay, but I don't think you seem to understand that even if people suggest stuff such as 4-B Scooby Doo based on a Crossover where he becomes a Yellow Lantern, it's very obvious bullshit that won't ever get accepted.
Serious people won't do shit like "Hey the Warrior of Light scales to Shinryu let's make Doctor Who scale from Marvel". The only one who would even think of suggesting that shit are either wankers, severely misinformed, or trolls.
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you uinderestimate the power of wank, but I doubt it would get through
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I should mention that the Scooby-Doo DC Team Up crossoer comics are there own thing and have their own canon. They make constant references to their previous adventures and have a decent amount of internal consistency. It's not PC Superman, it's their own universes version of Superman.
That said, Flash in the comics has a Low 7-C feat which should scale to Yellow Lantern Shaggy.
Edit: Also the comics are canon to Space Ghost: Coast to Coast. So that's a thing.
Edit 2: This was about the Scooby-Doo Team Up comics, not any other Scooby-Doo DC crossover, but I hear the Brave and the Bold crossovers were canon.
That said, Flash in the comics has a Low 7-C feat which should scale to Yellow Lantern Shaggy.
Edit: Also the comics are canon to Space Ghost: Coast to Coast. So that's a thing.
Edit 2: This was about the Scooby-Doo Team Up comics, not any other Scooby-Doo DC crossover, but I hear the Brave and the Bold crossovers were canon.
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