Ayewale
He/Him- 1,070
- 778
So this is a rather simple one.
Currently, every single character in the Undertale verse has Durability Negation on their profiles. This comes from the fact that they use soul magic, and all of their attacks target the soul, which probably means it gets past conventional durability. Which seems simple enough, however there's one glaring problem: attacks in Undertale undeniably are not just soul-based in nature, and are mostly physical. The proof of this are the items in the game, which include:
One could try to argue that every single item in the game actually affects the 'soul', and thus they are not conventional, but this is a ridiculous claim. For one, all of the items are presented as they appear, and there is literally nothing indicating that any of these 'actually' affect the SOUL. For two, we actually have proof of the opposite: several items can be interacted with in the overworld and they act as normal. Butterscotch Pie is exactly that: it's a normal pie that Frisk eats, and it also heals damage. The Popato Chips (yes that is how it's spelt) are just potato chips. The tutus are tutus and papyrus acts and calls them such. So an argument that they are unconventional in some way is also false.
All of this are things that the wiki already treats as true; I haven't said anything that we don't already know. The reason why I'm repeating it is because all of this proves that conventional armor reduces damage from monster attacks (which is also proven by it's contrapositive: conventional weapons increase damage dealt to monsters).
However, every single monster's Attack Potency is noted as ignoring conventional durability.
This...simply isn't true. Conventional armor does reduce their damage. Therefore, their Durability Negation should be Limited to reflect the fact that their attacks very clearly don't ignore conventional armor.
This is a very simple change but it requires getting rid of every single cross-verse UT battle. Which is fine, because all of them assume monster attacks entirely ignore conventional durability; something that is hilariously easy to disprove.
That's all from me.
Agree: CurrySenpai, Deonment, TauanVictor, JAFTEN, Moritzva, Mad_Dog_Of_Fujiwara, Ikelaggan, Roachman40, Tllmbrg, pineappleman, Eficiente, ShadyBoi
Neutral: Thetechmaster36 (Leaning Agree), ShockingPsychic, Shmooply, TheMonkeMan, thelastmlg (agrees with revisions to how soul magic is described),
Disagree: Arceus0x (?), Comiphorous, Lord_JJJ, Originlima
Edit 1: A similar thread was made here proposing a more extreme downgrade from Durability Negation to none at all, one that many users seemed to accept. Since that was seemingly accepted, no reason why this shouldn't go through as well, seeing as we're making the exact same arguments.
Edit 2: Assertations that Frisk magically converts all SOUL damage to physical damage (or other monsters) have zero citation and amounts to wiki headcanon. The much simpler conclusion is that magic deals both physical and magical damage, hence it doesn't entirely negate durability.
Edit 3: this assertation is further debunked by Flowey getting smacked by Toriel's fire (thanks Jaften). Flowey is explicitly soul-less: you couldn't possibly explain this by saying that he intentionally converted the damage...which leads to the obvious conclusion: there 'is' no such conversion, monster magic simply deals both magical and physical damage. It is also worth pointing out that Toriel had no knowledge of Flowey's nature and so was using her regular fire magic.
Currently, every single character in the Undertale verse has Durability Negation on their profiles. This comes from the fact that they use soul magic, and all of their attacks target the soul, which probably means it gets past conventional durability. Which seems simple enough, however there's one glaring problem: attacks in Undertale undeniably are not just soul-based in nature, and are mostly physical. The proof of this are the items in the game, which include:
- Conventional weapons like a toy knife, a glove and a empty gun.
- Conventional armor like the Temmie Armor, an apron and a ******* bandanna.
Conventionalhealing items like the Pies and Spider Candy.
One could try to argue that every single item in the game actually affects the 'soul', and thus they are not conventional, but this is a ridiculous claim. For one, all of the items are presented as they appear, and there is literally nothing indicating that any of these 'actually' affect the SOUL. For two, we actually have proof of the opposite: several items can be interacted with in the overworld and they act as normal. Butterscotch Pie is exactly that: it's a normal pie that Frisk eats, and it also heals damage. The Popato Chips (yes that is how it's spelt) are just potato chips. The tutus are tutus and papyrus acts and calls them such. So an argument that they are unconventional in some way is also false.
All of this are things that the wiki already treats as true; I haven't said anything that we don't already know. The reason why I'm repeating it is because all of this proves that conventional armor reduces damage from monster attacks (which is also proven by it's contrapositive: conventional weapons increase damage dealt to monsters).
However, every single monster's Attack Potency is noted as ignoring conventional durability.
This...simply isn't true. Conventional armor does reduce their damage. Therefore, their Durability Negation should be Limited to reflect the fact that their attacks very clearly don't ignore conventional armor.
This is a very simple change but it requires getting rid of every single cross-verse UT battle. Which is fine, because all of them assume monster attacks entirely ignore conventional durability; something that is hilariously easy to disprove.
That's all from me.
Agree: CurrySenpai, Deonment, TauanVictor, JAFTEN, Moritzva, Mad_Dog_Of_Fujiwara, Ikelaggan, Roachman40, Tllmbrg, pineappleman, Eficiente, ShadyBoi
Neutral: Thetechmaster36 (Leaning Agree), ShockingPsychic, Shmooply, TheMonkeMan, thelastmlg (agrees with revisions to how soul magic is described),
Disagree: Arceus0x (?), Comiphorous, Lord_JJJ, Originlima
Edit 1: A similar thread was made here proposing a more extreme downgrade from Durability Negation to none at all, one that many users seemed to accept. Since that was seemingly accepted, no reason why this shouldn't go through as well, seeing as we're making the exact same arguments.
Edit 2: Assertations that Frisk magically converts all SOUL damage to physical damage (or other monsters) have zero citation and amounts to wiki headcanon. The much simpler conclusion is that magic deals both physical and magical damage, hence it doesn't entirely negate durability.
Edit 3: this assertation is further debunked by Flowey getting smacked by Toriel's fire (thanks Jaften). Flowey is explicitly soul-less: you couldn't possibly explain this by saying that he intentionally converted the damage...which leads to the obvious conclusion: there 'is' no such conversion, monster magic simply deals both magical and physical damage. It is also worth pointing out that Toriel had no knowledge of Flowey's nature and so was using her regular fire magic.
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