A problem with Saber's stats

[Verivici]

Her DC is based entirely on Excalibur without any statement about her sword attacks.

Excalibur is her strongest trump card and it requires a massive amount of prana to use it. She will only use if she has no chance of victory otherwise, so it would be good if she wasn't listed as 7-B as if she can easily that level with normal attacks.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Even if it's a last resort she should still be rated 7-B for it regardless.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Doesn't hurt than a literally dead on his feet Shirou Emiya more or less vaporized the Grail with a fake Excalibur in the Normal Ending of Heaven's Feel

IIRC, Berserker was strong enough to swat away Saber's less than full power, but in vastly better condition Excalibur blast in a bad end of the Fate Route

Prana Burst Saber's strikes roughly match Berserker's

Not that I remember all that fully nor do I care to get into a debate about Nasu, because they always end up being terrible and derailed anywhere I've ever read them

 

[KamiYasha]

Excalibur is her strongest trump card and it requires a massive amount of prana to use it.

Yeah...saber use (In fate/stay night) excalibur with that poor amount of prana of Shiro...

I don't see the massive there.

 

[Verivici]

Ooops, my bad. But still, she won't just go "Oh you wanna fight? EXUSU-KARIBAAAH!" the moment her enemy walks up to her, as its a trump card like I just said.

 

[KamiYasha]

Ooops, my bad. But still, she won't just go "Oh you wanna fight? EXUSU-KARIBAAAH!" the moment her enemy walks up to her, as its a trump card like I just said.

Technically she did that against Gilgamesh. IIRC she activated ávalon then rush to gilgamesh and excalibur.

Either way, she still should be rated that way. I mean, the Excaliblast that she used against rider (medusa) was calculated for his "could split a large cloud" thing (almost mostly of his blast was eaten by pegasus/rider)

And THAT was only with the poor amount of shiro's prana. (In that specific moment).

 

[Verivici]

I still think it would be worth noting, as the vast bulk of her combat consists of normal attacks.

How powerful is she with normal attacks, then?

 

[KamiYasha]

I think City level+ normaly.

With Excalibur goes from City level+ to Large Mountain level+ and likely Small island level

 

[Yamatohime]

Either way, she still should be rated that way. I mean, the Excaliblast that she used against rider (medusa) was calculated for his "could split a large cloud" thing (almost mostly of his blast was eaten by pegasus/rider)
And THAT was only with the poor amount of shiro's prana. (In that specific moment).

Well, actually Noble Phantasm do not detoriate with Master's Prana. So Excaliblast on the roof was close to its real max output. There is one moment where NP is actually weaker compared to its real output in the FSN VN. It happens when Saber tried to Excaliblast Berserker in the Forest. Activation drain all of her remaining Prana and Excaliblast was weak and didn't kill Berserker. She disappeared afterwards.

 

[Reppuzan]

At max power she can easily clash with and overpower Berserker, who is listed at Small City Level on physical strength alone and for deflecting a half-charged Excalibur, if Shirou's commentary is to be taken seriously. I suppose that's the reason for her ranking.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, it's true that Alter-Saber managed to overpower Berserker. But we need to take into account that Berserker was heavily damaged by "Shadow" already and continue to fight through his own Battle Continuation skill. Additionally Berserker was restrained by "Shadow" too so he moved sluggishly.

Otherwise I think even with powerboost from corruption Alter-Saber wouldn't manage to overpower Berserker who can't be overpowered even by Enkidu (which can restrain Gods like him with ease) through his sheer will to fight and protect Ilya. And the same Enkidu was used to completely restrain Bull of Heaven whose stomps make eathquakes and whose breath brings storms.

 

[Reppuzan]

Shirou said that Saber at her best (meaning not Alter) could easily overpower Berserker. The chain breaking part is anime only and did not occur in the original novel.

 

[Yamatohime]

Saber or Archer stated that if Hercules was summoned at proper class he could easily overhelm any servant of the Fifth War through his skill and strength. It is stated that Mad Enchantment get in the way of his combat abilities the wrong way. Basically he got more strength but lost much of his accurate motoric functions. The true strength of Berserker was manifested through Shiro's trace ability though...

And as far as I remember Shirou meant that Saber could overpower Berserker not through power (which even Rin stated that Hercules is physically the strongest enemy) but through her superrior skills (since Berserker lost all of his skills). Saber was on par with Lancelot and couldn't overpower him even without knowning his identity. Because Lancelot even under his Mad Enchantment had all of his skills and motoric functions.

Actually chain-breaking feat occured in the Novel. When Berserker was pierced by Gilgamesh the final time he managed to break of them (since his Mad Enchantment lost its effect he managed to manifest his true strength and will) to offer his hand to Ilya so she could die proud of him. He disappeard almost instantly afterwards. Gil didn't even mock Berserker like he usually did to others...

 

[Reppuzan]

Nevertheless, she's on par with him striking force wise (assuming Mad Enhancement bumped up his strength stat a rank they should be at almost the same rank without it). But yeah, given his skills Berserker is definitely Heracle's worst class (but also the one he's most famous for).

Lancelot certainly had superior stats against her (especially after drawing Arondight) and equal if not greater skill, but one most acknowledge that a significant part of the reason why she struggled against him is the psychological trauma she has and the guilt she feels over his fall. She probably would still have been beaten if she had gotten over it (dragon-slaying sword anyone) but she probably would have put up a better fight.

 

[Yamatohime]

Not actually on par since when they clashed swords Saber was pushed back by several meters with each clash (at least in the novel). But close. And yeah. In the original FSN Novel Berserker was not strengthen by ME (only vs Gilgamesh Ilya used ME and Command Spell to order him retreat).

Heracles as Archer would obliterate even prime Saber with ease though. Pity that he got into class that make all of his skills and intelligence useless.

We should remember that Lancelot was fighting Saber without his sword and even then Saber has a hard time to push him back.