• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Why Joe Goldberg is a Genius?

So lets talk about why he is a genius. In his profile he is rated as Gifted for now. I will be giving his greatest intelligence feats for several different categories to explain to you why he is a genius.

Knowledge​

  • (Before the show) Runs a bookstore, and is extremely knowledgeable on many books. For example, he had to read every book in the bookstore because Mooney didn’t want inexperienced people working at his bookstore, Joe also remembers nearly everyone of them.
  • (3x10 13:15) Joe was able to give just the amount of a drug to Theo (who was severely injured) so that his head injury wouldn’t get worse and he would sleep. By looking at this we can say that he has some knowledge on chemistry.
  • (4x1 03:15) We see Joe, who uses the name Jonathan Moore and lives in London now, and is a literature professor specializing in English. The original Jonathan Moore had only gone to Columbia College and has achieved nothing in particular so Joe became a professor purely by himself. One of the requirements to be a literature professor is that you need to have a “Doctor of Philosophy” degree. Now, without the required knowledge of this level, Joe would stand out pretty quickly but he doesn’t, and people say he is a really good teacher, when Joe is just teaching for fun and also for money, so we can say he has a Doctor level of knowledge, or at least knowledge really close to it. Another requirement is that you need to be fluent in a language other than English, and this language is likely French for Joe. To make this feat more impressive, Joe achieved this knowledge without ever going to college so this also shows his fluid intelligence.

Knowledge/Engineering​

  • (4x8 09:47) Joe designed and assembled the advanced version of Mr. Mooney’s cage by himself in two days. Even a high level inventor could only do this on paper and not actually do it in real life under the conditions Joe was in. First I want to explain how we know he did this by himself;
    • Joe couldn't have gotten help from someone because he knew he couldn't reveal the location of the cage.
    • Joe was able to move the cage to another location within hours, which shows that he made the cage, otherwise he would not have known how to dismantle the cage.
    • In the exact timestamp I mentioned, we can see tools lying on a table.
  • This cage is a cage equipped with technology, its door can only be opened by entering a password on a digital keypad that was programmed to send a message to Joe when the wrong code was entered (in Mr Mooney's cage it could be opened with a key), he added an electronic button (it opens automatically when you press the button) to the part where Mr Mooney stated to use for money transfer, he also made a ventilation system there (or at least adapted the system for the shop above to the cage) and made a lighting system that turned on at day and turned off at night. To do all these, he needs to have broad electrical (which includes math and science) knowledge. In addition, Marianne stated that he built the cage so good that it was flawless.

Memory​

  • (4x2 23:15) Joe decides to enter the building where Simon’s art ceremony is taking place, from the back. While he is searching for a way he sees a woman and approaches her. He sees the woman trying to enter the building so Joe asks if he could come too, the woman agrees. Joe memorizes her appearance. When the woman is trying to open the door, Joe looks down for a split second, and he sees the woman carrying a card of some sort. Even though Joe doesn’t know what this card is useful for, at that moment, he memorizes: the address and the name of the hotel that the woman is staying in, and the room number. What makes this feat more impressive is that the text was upside down to Joe’s perspective. Joe uses this information hours later, when this woman splashes paint over one of Simon’s paintings, and Joe and Kate go on to hunt her down.
  • (4x8 27:35) Joe was able to remember him killing the riches, which was done by Rhys (his second personality). A person with DID can’t remember the things done by his other personality so this is an excellent memory feat.

Memory/Observation​

  • (4x1 12:10) Joe had observed every artist's haunt in Paris over and over. He did this because he was searching for Marianne who is an artist. Later in the scene, when Joe sees a painting similar to the one at Marianne’s house, he instantly recognizes it. Joe had only seen the painting at Marianne’s house for less than a minute and he could still remember it in perfect detail a few years later.

Social Skills/Adaptation​

  • Throughout the series, Joe adapted into 3 different countries and 5 different cities/states in total. USA, France, UK; NY, LA, California, Paris, London.
  • (4x1 23:00) Despite Joe being poor compared to them, he instantly adapted into a rich friend group and became the best friend of some people there. This shows that he could adapt to any place, regardless of the conditions.

Manipulation​

  • (4x1 46:08) While Joe was in his second personality (Rhys), he said something so affecting to Lady Phoebe that he instantly became her best friend, she became obsessed with him, and her whole life literally changed. Lady Phoebe also later stated that no one ever saw her that clear.
  • (4x6 23:08) Connie says that what Joe said to him influenced him so much. He started doing good things in his life, he dropped drugs and joined rehab, and he started to be a good man.

His strategy in season 3 finale​

  • (3x10 24:28) I will give a whole context to this first. Joe learned that Love had killed her first husband in 3x8. On Love's side, she found a bloody shirt in the trash can, the day Ryan (Marianne’s, Joe’s lover, ex husband) died, so she made the connection that Joe was willing to kill for another woman but not her, so she decided that she would kill Joe. Moving onto the present time, Joe and Love just talked about getting separated while eating dinner, but the conversation gets interrupted as Henry cries, Joe gets up to go check on him but Love insists that she will go and she leaves. The conversation goes on when Love comes back, she starts to talk about some unimportant things, then she admits that she actually killed her ex husband but not intentionally, the reason being she couldn’t adjust the doze and gave him too much, when Joe asks of what, Love says aconite (this is really important). While she continues to talk, she reveals that she had just used aconite on Joe too, and the effects of it start to kick in, Joe falls to the ground, unable to move. Love picks up his phone and texts Marianne to come over. When she arrives, Love tells that Joe has killed Ryan, she also says that killing Ryan was just the start and Joe has become obsessed with her, Love convinces Marianne to run away with his kid to escape from Joe. When she gets out of the house, Love goes to kill Joe, but right when she was going to slit his throat, Joe injects him with a syringe that kills her. Now, how did this happen? In a flashback we see that Love is planting something in the garden and Joe is observing him, Joe goes on to research what she is planting and finds out it is aconite. Joe searched what are the antidotes to this and one of them was biohacking (adrenaline), and Joe already had this because he chose to keep Cary’s stuff after putting him in a cage which contained a lot of medical things. He also prepared a syringe himself with just enough dose to kill Love. When Love left to check on Henry, Joe realized that Love was going to execute her plan soon so he took an adrenaline pill, this way, he was able to get the effects off him much faster. When Love came to kill her, Joe had already recovered but he was acting like he couldn't move, so just injected her the moment she came close by. Now moving onto the part where Joe plans his escape. Even though Joe had planned to escape with Henry, his son, he is forced to leave him to Dante who is his friend from the library he works at, but Joe didn’t forget to also leave Henry a note that he can read when he is older, so this part lowers the efficiency of the plan a little bit. For covering up Love’s murder, Joe made it seem like she injected herself with aconite, and he also wrote a suicide note that confessed basically every crime happened in the season. To get away from all this, Joe had to fake his death, he made it seem like Love was cooking something in the kitchen, then he cut off two toes, put one toe inside of the food he cooked, and the other one inside of Gil’s stuff (who Love framed for the murder of Natalie), then Joe put the food in the oven and turned it on at max settings, while he was waiting for the house to burn down Joe also spent time messing with the pictures of him and Love together so it would really seem like Love was mad at his husband and killed him. After all of this, we see Joe limping away from the house while it is burning down. Now let’s get onto the aftermath of this. The police DNA tested the stuff Joe had left and determined he was dead and Love was the killer.

His first strategy in season 4​

  • (Joe’s first grand strategy in the season, Part 1; 4x8 35:55) Joe sees Nadia, we came late to class. However, he doesn’t say anything and continues to observe her. He sees that she is acting too weird and anxious, and he also sees that she is on his phone. To get her attention, Joe asks him a question about a book they were supposed to read as homework, but Nadia says that she couldn’t read the book. Joe immediately understands that something is up with her because this has never happened before. Rhys says that she would be a problem, because he likely connected the dots and figured Nadia learned something about Joe. He then asks Joe to tell her to say, if he wants to find Marianne alive. This shows that Rhys instantly knew Nadia had found Marianne (who Joe was keeping in a cage). Joe listened to Rhys and asked her to stay. The conversation between them made Rhys understand more of her lies.
  • Joe’s first grand strategy in the season, Part 2; 4x10 05:10) When Nadia and Edward came to the place Joe had previously put the cage, they didn’t find anything. After her previous visit, Joe anticipated that Nadia would take Edward to see the cage too, so he moved the cage. This move made Edward trust in Nadia less, and partially made him think she is crazy.
  • (Joe’s first grand strategy in the season, Part 3; 4x10 34:55) Joe anticipated that Nadia and her boyfriend would come to his house to search for evidence, so Joe planted evidence (Rhys’ stuff) in his house. When Nadia and Edward come to his house, Edward waits outside while Nadia searches for evidence inside. Nadia finds the box Joe planted and spends time taking pictures of it. In this timeframe, Joe cuts Edward’s throat near their car. Nadia has finished taking pictures so she gets out of the house to go to their car. She goes near the car but can’t see Edward inside of it, right in that moment, she turns around and sees Joe, she gets shocked and drops her phone to the ground. Joe picks up the phone from the ground and deletes the pictures Nadia took. He starts walking towards Nadia so she backs away, right when she gets near the trunk of the car she sees the body of Edward. Joe makes her pick up a knife that he used to kill Edward, so that he could frame Nadia for it. He also planned to plant the box (Rhys’ stuff) into Nadia’s bedroom sent from an anonymous tipster, knowing that the police will think Edward sent it. So in one move; Joe killed Edward who was a threat to him, he framed Nadia for the murder of Edward, he framed Edward for the “Eat-the-Rich Killer” murders.

His second strategy in season 4​

  • First of all, I should mention that this man is an illuminati level billionare who became the founder of a worldwide successful investing company while he was only 26.
  • (Joe’s second grand strategy in the season, 4x10 13:03) Joe decided to kill Tom Lockwood, Kate’s father, after talking with her and seeing how much he damaged her. While talking with Kate he learned that she and his father talked at a workshop. Joe figured that she was probably talking about an airplane hangar (she mentioned that her father was fixing planes). Joe took Kate’s phone to text him but he didn’t know the password, but somehow Rhys knew the password and said that it was Mark Rothko’s birthday. Joe opened the phone, checked Google Maps and saw the location of the hangar. To make his strategy more reliable, he assumed that Tom had a bodyguard with him. He texted Tom Lockwood acting as Kate, and said that they should meet tonight and the workshop, Tom accepted. Joe decided to buy things like chloroform, rope etc. to ensure Tom doesn’t run away. When it was night time, Joe waited outside the hangar to evade a guard, and he entered the hangar right before the gate closed. He snuck up behind a desk, waited for the right moment to take him out with chloroform, but just when he was about to, Tom turned out. Joe however didn't panic and played along while being calm. He started saying things like he said the text etc. to not give Tom time to think. He said that the reason he came to talk with him is that he needed to talk to him about the DNA found on Rhys’ body (who Joe killed under the orders of Tom). He said that acting as Kate was the only chance he would have to talk with him because otherwise he couldn’t really say something like “I need to talk with Tom about the man I killed” to his assistant. When Tom was walking around with his back turned to Joe, Joe succeeded in taking him out with chloroform. Joe tied him up to a chair. When Tom woke up he tried to deceive Joe by saying that Kate doesn’t care about him, but Joe quickly shut him up. Then Joe heard Tom’s bodyguard coming into the hangar, so he hid. When the bodyguard came close to him, Joe attacked him from behind. After some talk between them, Tom said that Joe and him are the same in an attempt to deceive Joe’s mind, but Rhys warned him. Joe then taped a plastic bag around Tom’s head, this way he strangled him to death. After Joe killed both Tom and his bodyguard, he made a plan to get away with it. He put together a made-up story about how the bodyguard (Hugo) was doing badly financially, so he tried to rob Tom Lockwood and got what he wanted but accidently went too far and killed him. Joe successfully framed him for Tom Lockwood’s murder, but Hugo had to vanish too. He drove near a forest and buried Hugo’s body there. Now, Joe has taken care of two bodies.

Reasoning/Prediction​

  • (4x6 26:39) Nadia approaches Joe and asks did something happen, because a really rude waitress was dragging Phoebe somewhere to talk with the cops. Joe quickly observes around him and sees the detectives, so the waitress must have been lying. While Joe is downstairs, the waitress locked Phoebe into a room and kept her hostage there. While trying to find the location of them, in 14 seconds Joe made a very thorough guess in basically a skyscraper, here is how. He said that the kidnapper would know about the cameras around the perimeter of the building, so the kidnapper couldn’t get her out of the building, so that means they are still in the building. Joe also ruled out the basement because there wouldn’t be enough time for the kidnapper to do something. He said that she is in one of the hotel rooms, one with a few or no adjoining walls in case Phoebe screams, a place near the fire escape in case something unexpected happens. While doing this, keep in mind that Joe had to visualize the whole building. Joe went upstairs, and on his first try, he pointed out the exact room, he got close to the door and when he heard them talking inside he was sure.

My prediction for his IQ score​

  • Given all these, I'd give him an IQ score about 180+.

Votes​

Agree: 69Blood69, King_Dom470, Golden_Void, Renitr, DarkDragonMedeus, E6pire, Accelerated_Evolution
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top