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Nice self Inserts that are NOT on the in the current description but you pushed to further your agenda but Whatevs.The current tier list has it that in order to be Low 1-C in AP, you must be capable of affecting/creating/destroying an entire 5D space. Affecting any finite structure isn't enough.
Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level
Characters or objects that can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)
1. "In order to" and "you must be"? It Cleary state characters or Objects that CAN affect, create and/or destroy the entire of spaces.
There is a clear difference in context here:
What the Tiering Page is saying is that at this Tier (Low 1-C) characters CAN do X, Y and Z
It did not say Characters MUST be able capable doing X, Y and Z to be in Tier (Low 1-C)
2. You noticed that "whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model". Guess what sirrrr? A 5-D to any higher Dimensional is infinitely greater than the size of a universal model. A 5-D Pebble will always be infinitely greater in size than a 4-D Timeline because of the difference in dimensional size.
Yeah, other than pointing out the complete contradiction that the Real Layer should be considered INFINITELY larger than the Fictional Layer but that Higher Dimensional objects (so 5-D, 11-D, 13-D, etc) objects not infinitely larger than 3-D or 4-D objects? I dont have to say this but I will..... NO ONE WILL ACCEPT THISThe Real layer is considered to be infinitely larger than the fictional layer. Higher dimensional objects are not considered infinitely larger than lower dimensional objects. Lower dimensional objects, and beings can exist alongside and interact with Higher dimensional objects and beings.
Also Lower Dimensional Objects existing alongside and interacting with Higher Dimensional Objects and Beings? Thats VERY SUBJECTIVE to in-verse feats and context as mechanics can vary from verse to verse..... But to make it a default standard based on no objective proof that lower dimensional beings and objects can interact and exist with higher dimensional beings and objects? Automatic No
All that's really needed here is a description fix... Nth moreThe purpose of this thread is to call out that the current R>F transcendence page doesn't align with the current tier page.
LatterEither, characters need to be able to affect the entire space, once R>F has been confirmed, or the tier page needs to be changed to reflect the current R>F standards.
You should be honest and say it doesnt make sense to you because it makes sense to everyone else that have disagreed with this thread which is 95% of people and staff included. Your argument essentially means that real layers are finitely bigger than fictional layers. There is a finite gap than separates a Real Layer from Fictional Layer. Thats not a qualify difference sir..... thats quantity. That would give Fictional Layer characters to become real layer characters through quantity amps rather than qualify amps. That completely ignores and destroys the Ontological Difference that has been established for R>F1. Assuming that fictional layer is infinitely smaller than the real layer, doesn't make sense and is arbitrary. Unless the story itself dictates these things, we should not apply it to all fiction. Fictional things do not have size to compare. Saying something real is infinitely bigger than something imaginary is like saying an Apple is infinitely more apple than an orange is an apple. It's just silly talk.
Anyways no doubt this will be rejected
Also your example makes no sense AT ALL
Here is an that makes more sense:
An Apple thats Real vs an Apple thats a Drawing
One has all the texture, the taste, the smell and qualities of an Apple
And the other is a Drawing that has no qualities of an apple
So basically your argument here is that........... Lower Dimensional Beings that exist as Fiction should NEVER EVER be capable of reaching Higher Dimensional Beings that exists as Real. And if teh context of the verse describes that is EXACTLY ehat is going on here, then we should ignore it and say that the fictional world is no longer fictional but just another world as real as the higher dimensional world......?2. There are tons of examples of Lower Dimensional beings interacting with Higher Dimensional beings. These beings are Higher Dimensional because they can affect and entire Higher Dimensional space. When compared to a being that is simply Low 1-C for existing in a higher plane, these Higher Dimensional beings are infinitely stronger. So when lower dimensional beings interact with Higher Dimensional beings, these Higher Dimensional beings do not view the lower dimensional beings as fiction, but just as real as them. The only difference between them is that the HD beings are much stronger.
Yeah......another sad point that everyone will disagree with
Also that notion that characters that gain Low 1-C because they destroyed an entire 5-D space being INFINITELY stronger than characters who gain Low 1-C because they can exist in ontological higher planes. Highly subjective to context, interpretation and feats. NEVER something we assume be default
Another Disagree
YesSo I asked the question: In VS Battles, we pit two characters against each other. If we pit a Low 1-C via R>F (let's call them Character A for ease) against a 2-A character (Character B), under our standards Character A will see Character B as fiction. However, in Character B's story, Low 1-C characters interact with them and see them as real beings (weaker but still real). Why should Character A view Character B as fiction, when in character B's story, an infinitely more powerful Low 1-C sees them as real? We would be giving Character A an unearned ability and handicapping Character B.
Because Verse Mechanics
Verse Mechanics are Ignored here
Thats like saying every Dragon Ball Character should get Acausality because of how time works in DB and going back in time to kill Goku A wouldnt affect goku A but kill Goku B.
Or like saying because in Jojo, only stand users can see other stands then no character outside of Jojo should be able to see stands.
Or that likes saying because in Bleach, all things have souls then at should apply in a Versus Debate
Any mechanics that does not depends on the characters but depends on how a verse functions will be completely ignored. VBW Standards takes precedence here, we cant accommodate for the verse mechanics of every verse. If in characters B story he is a fictional character but a higher dimensional (real) character saw them as just as real as they are then unless their is any context further than that.... Character B will be fictional in comparison to any higher dimensional being. Verse Mechanics be damned
Ontological Difference again....3. People have mentioned that characters that gain higher tiers view R>F, would lose that tier if they are brought into the lower layers. Characters who are Low 1-C via affecting an entire 5D space, would be Low 1-C, in any layer they are in. And without R>F, a Low 1-C character could be be indistinguishable from a lower a tier. We can get things such as, "yes this character's best feat is destroying a tree, but that tree was infinitely larger than an infinite multiverse because they viewed this world like it was fiction".
Due to R>F, they would have that Tier once they in a higher layer of existence and can affect higher dimensional objects infinitely beyond the capacity of an infinite multiverse multiplied by infinite over and over. They would lose that Tier however once they are no longer in that Higher Dimensional Plane because they no longer possess a Quality of existence infinitely greater than 4-D
Also
yes this character's best feat is destroying a tree, but that tree was infinitely larger than an infinite multiverse because they viewed this world like it was fiction
Objectively speaking..... Yes. The tree is a 5-D Object. Any 5-D Object by inception and nature is INFINITELY MORE LARGER AND COMPLEX than a 4-D OBJECT no matter how many their are. An Infinite Number of 4-D Timelines multiplied by infinity over and over again wont compare to a 5-D object.
I can tell you right now that little to none of this will be acceptedIf this goes through, then R>F will have some stricter standards and different guidelines. If it doesn't the, the tier page needs to changed to reflect this.
The most that will be done is description change and thats it