A Major Concern with current Reality-Fiction Transcendence page:

[Iamunanimousinthat]

eh...what do you mean? The book contains that lower realm as part of the story.

There are many examples in fiction where it's story and characters can interact with the actual storybook they are in on the same level

 

[Tarang123]

There are many examples in fiction where it's story and characters can interact with the actual storybook they are in on the same level

Have an example?

 

[AKUTO123]

Did still any staff don't came here ? 2 or 3 staff more must came here and that issue finish.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Have an example?

The never ending story, which ironically doesn't count for this

 

[Darksmash]

There are many examples in fiction where it's story and characters can interact with the actual storybook they are in on the same level

That would simply be evidence that the R>F layers are not legit. It's not rocket science.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That would simply be evidence that the R>F layers are not legit. It's not rocket science.

It's arbitrary.

 

[Darksmash]

It's arbitrary.

No it's not.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No it's not.

It is literally just deciding that a character gets a tier for existing in a space that is deemed superior and inaccessible but only through perception of fiction vs reality. The character being unable to affect the lower level is apparently irrelevant, even though the higher level is just as inaccessible to the lower one as well.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

For example, if both layers view each other as fictional, then it doesn't count, even though they are both equally inaccessible to each other.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Not to mention the major contradiction.

If in their own story, a character views characters as fiction, we rate them as Low 1-C and then we have it that they will view all tier two characters (from any story) as fiction.

BUT, in different stories, we have Low 1-C characters who view lower tiers in their stories as just as real as they are. Why should they view those lower tier characters as fiction, when even more powerful Low 1-C characters don't view them as such?

It is literally just picking and choosing who to give a tier based on nothing tangible.

 

[Jinsye]

For example, if both layers view each other as fictional, then it doesn't count, even though they are both equally inaccessible to each other.

Lad what in the nine hells are you talking about.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Lad what in the nine hells are you talking about.

If they both saw each other as fictional.

 

[Vietthai96]

At this point i believe that OP just trying to find some extremely rare, unusual cases to disprove the entire notion of R>F as a whole, while those cases is just not get qualify R>F, not the R>F system being wrong

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

At this point i believe that OP just trying to find some extremely rare, unusual cases to disprove the entire notion of R>F as a whole, while those cases is just not get qualify R>F, not the R>F system being wrong

This case isn't rare:

"If in their own story, a character views characters as fiction, we rate them as Low 1-C and then we have it that they will view all tier two characters (from any story) as fiction.

BUT, in different stories, we have Low 1-C characters who view lower tiers in their stories as just as real as they are. Why should they view those lower tier characters as fiction, when even more powerful Low 1-C characters don't view them as such?"

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

And I'm not disproving the entire notion of R>F. I'm calling to question, giving characters the higher rating without substantial feats.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

This case isn't rare:

"If in their own story, a character views characters as fiction, we rate them as Low 1-C and then we have it that they will view all tier two characters (from any story) as fiction.

BUT, in different stories, we have Low 1-C characters who view lower tiers in their stories as just as real as they are. Why should they view those lower tier characters as fiction, when even more powerful Low 1-C characters don't view them as such?"

Can you name the stories so we know what you’re talking about?

 

[Tarang123]

Lad what in the nine hells are you talking about.

What he's saying is that if you have two different realms that both view each other as fictional, would it count? The answer is no, simply because it's not a genuine R>F transcendence, but more akin to what happened in Pre-Crisis DC with Superboy Prime's Earth.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Can you name the stories so we know what you’re talking about?

DC and Marvel have tons of Low 1-C characters who interact with lower tiers. And they are Low 1-C for destroying/creating/affecting higher dimensional spaces. Let's call this Scenario A for ease.

Put this in contrast with a character who is simply Low 1-C for existing in higher level, that is determined to be higher level because while they are in the higher level, they view lower level beings as fiction. Let's call this Scenario B.

The Low 1-C in Scenario A is infinitely stronger than Scenario B. (destroying an entire space is infinitely more powerful than simply just existing in it)

In our vs battles, we pit two characters together. Now, under the current R>F transcendence, we have the Low 1-C in scenario B would view the 2-A being in Scenario A as fiction. But this is where the contradiction comes from. If an infinitely more powerful Low 1-C views the lower level character as real in their story, why would they suddenly become fictional when an infinitely less powerful Low 1-C sees them as real.

 

[Darksmash]

It is literally just deciding that a character gets a tier for existing in a space that is deemed superior and inaccessible but only through perception of fiction vs reality. The character being unable to affect the lower level is apparently irrelevant, even though the higher level is just as inaccessible to the lower one as well.

No it's based on the idea that a R>F transcendence makes the upper layer bigger in size. Just because you cannot interact with subatomic particles it does not mean you don't scale above them.

 

[Darksmash]

For example, if both layers view each other as fictional, then it doesn't count, even though they are both equally inaccessible to each other.

Also this is a nonsensical notion. If A>B then B can't be >A.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

No it's based on the idea that a R>F transcendence makes the upper layer bigger in size. Just because you cannot interact with subatomic particles it does not mean you don't scale above them.

This doesn't make any sense. We are literally made of subatomic particles. We interact with them everyday. They make up our interaction.

Also this is a nonsensical notion. If A>B then B can't be >A.

It still happens in fiction.

 

[Gasper]

Ok there are many things wrong the post but I’ll address this one.



No it cannot. Let’s look at your example. Draw a flat plane on a 3D graph. What do you get? You get a flat, 3D plane that we simply describe as being 2D for convenience purposes. But make no mistake that flat plane you just drew on that graph is entirely 3D not 2D. Why? To quote you again:



Yes it is. That’s why. The 2 dimensions we describe, length and width, cannot be physically represented in our 3 dimensional space, which includes height and depth. It can only be metaphysically represented for simple understanding purposes.

The common thing we use to represent the second dimension, a flat line you can draw, is 3D. Because no matter how small it is, that line has depth to it. So your comparison falls flat because these things cannot exist in the same space because there is a fundamental difference between being two dimensional and three dimensional. They’re inaccessible to each other.

Disagree

No, higher dimensions don't see lower as infinitely small. That's not how tiering system works at all.

 

[Ren1999]

No, higher dimensions don't see lower as infinitely small. That's not how tiering system works at all.

it qualifies on this wiki, where do you claim Higher dimensions that see lower Dimensions as Infinitesimal are ineligible on this wiki

 

[Darksmash]

This doesn't make any sense. We are literally made of subatomic particles. We interact with them everyday. They make up our interaction.

Yet if a world existed inside a subatomic particle you will not be able to affect it. Just like how you cannot affect the dream inside someone else's mind. But that does not mean you do not transcend it.

It still happens in fiction.

Then that fiction is simply wrong and would not qualify for tier 1 in the first place unless an alternative solution is proposed.

 

[Gasper]

it qualifies on this wiki, where do you claim Higher dimensions that see lower Dimensions as Infinitesimal are ineligible on this wiki

No, that's why we don't use dimensions as the basis for high 1-B anymore. You need to prove the dimensions in question are superior to each other in the specific verse. That's the main reason why people want to downgrade marvel and DC.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yet if a world existed inside a subatomic particle you will not be able to affect it. Just like how you cannot affect the dream inside someone else's mind. But that does not mean you do not transcend it.

Stop using real life as examples. Worlds don't exist inside subatomic particles, and you do not transcend anything. This is just making stuff up and applying it to fiction.

Then that fiction is simply wrong and would not qualify for tier 1 in the first place unless an alternative solution is proposed.

A fictional world can't be wrong. There is nothing false or wrong about a story where two worlds see each other as fiction.

 

[Ren1999]

No, that's why we don't use dimensions as the basis for high 1-B anymore. You need to prove the dimensions in question are superior to each other in the specific verse. That's the main reason why people want to downgrade marvel and DC.

do you think, only R>f can qualify High dimension, also infinitesimal can qualify in this wiki if you bring marvel and dc that's a different case and also you see in system tier in this wiki, if you say infinitesimal doesn't fulfill high dimension requirement then I will downgrade all the verses in this wiki without the concept of R>f that's your version right

 

[Gasper]

do you think, only R>f can qualify High dimension, also infinitesimal can qualify in this wiki if you bring marvel and dc that's a different case and also you see in system tier in this wiki, if you say infinitesimal doesn't fulfill high dimension requirement then I will downgrade all the verses in this wiki without the concept of R>f that's your version right

That's not what I'm saying.
Dimensions are just axis of movement and not some kind of higher infinites or something lol.

If you are infinitely larger than something you would absolutely qualify for transcendence.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

do you think, only R>f can qualify High dimension, also infinitesimal can qualify in this wiki if you bring marvel and dc that's a different case and also you see in system tier in this wiki, if you say infinitesimal doesn't fulfill high dimension requirement then I will downgrade all the verses in this wiki without the concept of R>f that's your version right

How many verses actually have characters or worlds that are infinitesmally smaller than others? And I mean in actuality, not the we just say it is because its' "superior".

 

[Ren1999]

No, higher dimensions don't see lower as infinitely small. That's not how tiering system works at all.

then you clearly said, infinitesimal does not meet the requirements for transcendence, so I will downgrade all tier 1 verses that use the infinitesimal concept. whereas in this wiki it's clear accept if high dimension sees low dimension as infinitesimal, but you say it doesn't qualify in this wiki

 

[Gasper]

then you clearly said, infinitesimal does not meet the requirements for transcendence, so I will downgrade all tier 1 verses that use the infinitesimal concept. whereas in this wiki it's clear accept if high dimension sees low dimension as infinitesimal, but you say it doesn't qualify in this wiki

No i didn't. I said dimensions don't automatically see the lower ones as infinitesimal.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

DC and Marvel have tons of Low 1-C characters who interact with lower tiers. And they are Low 1-C for destroying/creating/affecting higher dimensional spaces. Let's call this Scenario A for ease.

Put this in contrast with a character who is simply Low 1-C for existing in higher level, that is determined to be higher level because while they are in the higher level, they view lower level beings as fiction. Let's call this Scenario B.

The Low 1-C in Scenario A is infinitely stronger than Scenario B. (destroying an entire space is infinitely more powerful than simply just existing in it)

In our vs battles, we pit two characters together. Now, under the current R>F transcendence, we have the Low 1-C in scenario B would view the 2-A being in Scenario A as fiction. But this is where the contradiction comes from. If an infinitely more powerful Low 1-C views the lower level character as real in their story, why would they suddenly become fictional when an infinitely less powerful Low 1-C sees them as real.

That’s through boomtubes iirc and when someone like Mr Mxyz does it he becomes weaker iirc

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

You can think of R>F as viewing something as flat since you would view a 2D object as flat because it’s missing an extra dimension making it infinitely smaller now apply that to 4D viewing 3D as flat or fiction and it’s the same thing

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You can think of R>F as viewing something as flat since you would view a 2D object as flat because it’s missing an extra dimension making it infinitely smaller now apply that to 4D viewing 3D as flat or fiction and it’s the same thing

That still doesn't answer the contradiction I brought up.

If a character is viewed as real by a Low 1-C in their story, why should they be viewed as flat by a weaker Low 1-C from another story.

That’s through boomtubes iirc and when someone like Mr Mxyz does it he becomes weaker iirc

Not all interactions are through boomtubes and there are more stronger characters than Mxyz.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

That still doesn't answer the contradiction I brought up.

If a character is viewed as real by a Low 1-C in their story, why should they be viewed as flat by a weaker Low 1-C from another story.

When did this occur? I don’t remember a character being viewed as real by a low 1-C and then be viewed as flat from a weaker low 1-C it seems like you’re making up hypotheticals

.


Not all interactions are through boomtubes and there are more stronger characters than Mxyz.

Are you saying anytime a higher dimensions being goes to a lower dimensional plane it’s not via boomtube and if that’s what you’re saying can you name and instance where it wasn’t by using boomtubes and Ik there’s characters above Mxyz

 

[PhantomØ4]

When this gets shut down just remember how much time you wasted on this that you could have spent touching grass perhaps maybe if you’d like.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

When this gets shut down just remember how much time you wasted on this that you could have spent touching grass perhaps maybe if you’d like.

Is the grass as edgy as this comment?

 

[PhantomØ4]

You don’t know? Truly a vsbw forum moment.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

When did this occur? I don’t remember a character being viewed as real by a low 1-C and then be viewed as flat from a weaker low 1-C it seems like you’re making up hypotheticals

Lower tier characters in DC interact with Low 1-C characters above all the time. They don't see them as fictional. They're just weaker.

Are you saying anytime a higher dimensions being goes to a lower dimensional plane it’s not via boomtube and if that’s what you’re saying can you name and instance where it wasn’t by using boomtubes and Ik there’s characters above Mxyz

I can't give you a specific DC moment at the top of my head, but if you need a concrete example, there is Psylocke being in the White Hot Room.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Lower tier characters in DC interact with Low 1-C characters above all the time. They don't see them as fictional. They're just weaker.


I can't give you a specific DC moment at the top of my head, but if you need a concrete example, there is Psylocke being in the White Hot Room.

I’m 99% sure when lower tier characters interact with low 1-C characters they’re either enlarged to exist in that plane or shrunk like Darkseid does because he doesn’t like using avatars I’ll try to find info on Psylocke and the white hot room I’ve never heard of those 2 things in dc before