A likely error in our Regeneration page

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Promestein]

I can make a thread covering the implications of this revision so that people can deal with it on the CR board, and I can start compiling examples for Low-Mid through High-Mid. I feel like that's the most important category of stuff to depict, because there's a lot of variation in how these things can play out.

 

[KLOL506]

So basically

Low-Mid: Regenerating from severe organ damage, regenerating lost limbs and regenerating from limited brain damage (Bullet wounds to the head)

Mid: Regenerating from decapitation (Regenerating a brand new body from a head, or a brand-new head from a body), severe brain damage (Having half your head lopped off either vertically or horizontally) and vertical bisection

High-Mid: Regenerating from being blasted into pieces and the brain must also be damaged for this to qualify. That, or you can heal a brand-new body from a finger or from some other organ, like a heart, kidney, stomach, lung, etc.

Question: Would I qualify for High-Mid if I regenerated a brand new body from a head after it was already bisected?

 

[Promestein]

Personally if that's all that's left I'd say that's good enough for High-Mid

 

[KLOL506]

Personally if that's all that's left I'd say that's good enough for High-Mid

Yeah, just regenerating a brand new body from an already-cut-in-half head.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah we're really gonna have to come up with a set of consistent visual examples for what counts as Mid and what counts as High-Mid, especially when it comes to how many bits a character is actually left in and how large they are.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah there's an issue.

Solitel here regenerates from having her entire upper half annihilated. See? This is currently listed as a Mid feat, and for obvious reasons. She's not regenerating anything a Mid regenerator could not regenerate.

Ragyo regenerates from being sliced up here, including being vertically bisected. This is presented as a High-Mid feat.

Solitel regenerates way more of her body than Ragyo does, including the entirety of her brain, but isn't cut to bits. Ragyo is not regenerating anything that Solitel cannot regenerate. Same with this arguably High-Mid feat. These feats, despite being objectively less impressive than Solitel's, are and will continue to be listed as superior just because they involve people being cut to pieces.

I think there's a fundamental issue with how High-Mid is defined. Most High-Mid is just showcasing Mid and Low-Mid simultaneously, which makes no sense, because Solitel would also regenerate from what happens to Ragyo here. Being cut to bits is more impressive than regenerating from being decapitated, but... it's something that you could argue most Mid regenerators could heal from. After all, they're already capable of regenerating lost limbs, organ damage, even the destruction of their entire torso...

So what's the solution here?

Here are options.

1. High-Mid regeneration is regenerating from the total or near-total destruction of all vital structures. In other words, not needing anything vital to existence left to regenerate.
2. High-Mid regeneration is regenerating from singular bits, or from very finely chopped bits.
3. Being cut to bits is still High-Mid, but only if there's significant separation of the body parts.

I favor option #1 but I'm really not certain. I also hate option #3.

Also regenerating from plasma is regenerating from energy and should be High.

 

[SamanPatou]

I think option 2 is the best, although I'd like more elaboration on what is considered "Vital structure".

Also yes, regenerating from plasma is High

 

[Promestein]

I was thinking all vital organs.

It's listed as Mid-High right now.

 

[SamanPatou]

Then having your brain, heart and idk what else, a bunch of innards destroyed would be high mid even if the rest of your body is intact.

I think option 2 is the best, you already have most of your body and brain destroyed, but there's still more matter than just blood or such.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that option 2 seems best. Thank you for helping out so much here Promestein.

 

[Promestein]

Okay, that's fine by me. I'd want to prepare a bunch of visual references for Regeneration feats within this range, and in general, so that it's clearer and there's less ambiguity.

I can also write a more clear High-Mid regen description.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am obviously open to improvements. Feel free to show your drafts here.

 

[Promestein]

I'm working on my reference page.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. It is very appreciated.

 

[Promestein]

I spent some time on that but really I think we just need to come up with some good boundaries for High-Mid first. Look at examples, determine what isn't High-Mid and what is. We need good examples of characters diced to bits for it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should I call for our administrators or thread moderators to help out with input?

 

[Promestein]

I mean, I guess, but I don't feel it's necessary to call a bunch of people. Other people already in the thread, I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

I spent some time on that but really I think we just need to come up with some good boundaries for High-Mid first. Look at examples, determine what isn't High-Mid and what is. We need good examples of characters diced to bits for it.

I mean, I guess, but I don't feel it's necessary to call a bunch of people. Other people already in the thread, I guess.

Okay. No problem.

@Everything12 @Armorchompy @SamanPatou @LordGriffin1000 @Qawsedf234 @Ogbunabali @DarkDragonMedeus @Thelastmlg @Abstractions @KLOL506 @TheRustyOne @Epsilon_R @Elizhaa @Starter_Pack @CreatorJoe

Would you be willing to help out here again please?

 

[Armorchompy]

I assume this refers to the lower boundary?

 

[SamanPatou]

We need good examples of characters diced to bits for it.

Would something like this (minute 8.43) be good, even if Buu can regenerate from worse damage?

 

[Omnificence]

Well, I was for setting the requirement for Type 3 Immortality to be High-Low Regeneration, but now I don't think it's necessary. What I do suggest is that people should provide instances where a certain character's regeneration has saved them from instances where they were on the brink of death before they give the said character Type 3 Immortality, regardless of their level.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I can look at some characters a bit later that could maybe work for High-Mid.

Btw, for examples does it need to have a visual like video, comics, manga or books and novels work too?

 

[Omnificence]

Btw, for examples does it need to have a visual like video, comics, manga or books and novels work too?

I think scans would help better detail the character's regeneration, yes.

Anyone else agree?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Immortality Type 3 is a very case by case thing; some characters have it via Low-Mid while others have Low-Mid but don't have type 3. I'd say it depends on regeneration method and whether or not it's regenerating damage that would otherwise kill a human instantly. Reaerating entire limbs should definitely not grant Immortality type 3, but something like being able to reform your heart would.

As for determining a baseline for High-Mid, I know small piece of your remaining body is the typical method, but "Small part" doesn't sound specific enough. I would at least say losing the head and torso are some minimums to be taken into account. Most common examples of High-Mid feats is like regenerating your entire body from just a hand or foot.

 

[Promestein]

We're not talking about type 3 Immortality in the general sense.

Most common examples of High-Mid feats is like regenerating your entire body from just a hand or foot.

Definite High-Mid.

Would something like this (minute 8.43) be good, even if Buu can regenerate from worse damage?

That feat is a High-Mid feat, yeah.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We're not talking about type 3 Immortality in the general sense.

I should have made that clear, but it was specifically a response to CreatorJoe. But agreed that isn't part of the topic.

Back on topic, how about regenerating from limb(s) or severed organs being the baseline.

 

[Thelastmlg]

i think that's fine for a baseline.

i also agree that immortality type 3 should only be given if they are shown to survive lethal wounds with it.

 

[Zaratthustra]

"losing the head and torso are some minimums to be taken into account" would change some things if this would be the baseline.

For example, 666:Satan (The God of High School) regenerated his arms and the torso which is currently put as Mid. If this would be the new baseline then he would get upped at High-Mid.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, I take issue with that. He should be Low-Mid or Mid. The idea is that High-Mid is now being diced to bits with more or less complete organ destruction, or regeneration from a single chunk.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm fine with "Complete destruction of all organs" being the baseline for High-Mid. Pretty much nothing but severed arms and severed legs is allowed to exist and/or entire body is sliced and diced to shreds.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody explain the problems with what is currently written in the Regeneration page please? It seems good to me in its current state.

 

[Promestein]

The issue is that regeneration feats that are worse than Mid are being rated as High-Mid because they involve dismemberment or being blown to bits, even though the Mid feat is recreating way more tissue. I made a post about this already, Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not understand. Here are the two definitions:

Mid: The ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine.

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown/cut to pieces, brain included, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a finger, or the heart.

The first one apparently involves regenerating from just a head, after it has been cut off, and the second one from having the head and body blown to tiny pieces. What is the problem here?

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah there's an issue.

Solitel here regenerates from having her entire upper half annihilated. See? This is currently listed as a Mid feat, and for obvious reasons. She's not regenerating anything a Mid regenerator could not regenerate.

Ragyo regenerates from being sliced up here, including being vertically bisected. This is presented as a High-Mid feat.

Solitel regenerates way more of her body than Ragyo does, including the entirety of her brain, but isn't cut to bits. Ragyo is not regenerating anything that Solitel cannot regenerate. Same with this arguably High-Mid feat. These feats, despite being objectively less impressive than Solitel's, are and will continue to be listed as superior just because they involve people being cut to pieces.

I think there's a fundamental issue with how High-Mid is defined. Most High-Mid is just showcasing Mid and Low-Mid simultaneously, which makes no sense, because Solitel would also regenerate from what happens to Ragyo here. Being cut to bits is more impressive than regenerating from being decapitated, but... it's something that you could argue most Mid regenerators could heal from. After all, they're already capable of regenerating lost limbs, organ damage, even the destruction of their entire torso...

So what's the solution here?

Here are options.

1. High-Mid regeneration is regenerating from the total or near-total destruction of all vital structures. In other words, not needing anything vital to existence left to regenerate.
2. High-Mid regeneration is regenerating from singular bits, or from very finely chopped bits.
3. Being cut to bits is still High-Mid, but only if there's significant separation of the body parts.

I favor option #1 but I'm really not certain. I also hate option #3.

Also regenerating from plasma is regenerating from energy and should be High.

Never mind. I suppose that the second option seems to make sense, but it depends on what other people here think.

 

[KLOL506]

Isn't Option 2 basically Option 1 but more OP? Regenerating entire bodies from just limbs or fingers basically assumes you can heal without any of your vital organs remaining.

 

[Antvasima]

Good point. I am fine with either option 1 or 2, depending on what other staff members here think.

 

[KLOL506]

Good point. I am fine with either option 1 or 2, depending on what other staff members here think.

I'd argue Option 1 and 2 are basically the same. Option 2 would basically be a higher form of High-Mid. I believe Option 1 should be the starting point of High-Mid.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is also a good point. What do the rest of you think?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Someone only mentioned torso and arms, but seemed to forgot to mention to include that the head was destroyed alongside those. Meaning he regenerated when the only thing left was the legs. But KLOL makes sense to me.