A likely error in our Regeneration page

[Antvasima]

Hello.

This is just a note regarding that both Mid and High-Mid Regeneration seem to include healing from a severed head. We should probably remove it from the latter type.

 

[Everything12]

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown / cut to pieces, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a severed head, a single organ, or a finger.

Severed heads aren't particularly small.

Yeah just remove it, not sure what exactly you would replace it with.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

mid is u regenerating after being decapitated, u still have a body

High Mid is u regenerating when only ur head is left

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. In that case we should probably explain the distinction better in the page. However, it is far more impressive to heal from a finger than a head.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, the page already says "from a small piece of the user's body", which implies regenerating from a severed head.

 

[SamanPatou]

While we are at it, I think we should give a better explanation of what qualifies as as a Deep injury in the explanation of Mid-Low regen, because it creates some confusion when the explanation of Low-Mid says traditionally fatal wounds.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that a head is a large piece of a character's body, and a crucial one that contains consciousness at that, and that the page does not seem to mention anything about decapitations, so it currently still seems best to remove a head as an example for High-Mid regeneration.

 

[Antvasima]

While we are at it, I think we should give a better explanation of what qualifies as as a Deep injury in the explanation of Mid-Low regen, because it creates some confusion when the explanation of Low-Mid says traditionally fatal wounds.

Does anybody else have any comments about this?

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[SamanPatou]

Sorry for bringing on more troubles in what was meant to be a minor and quick revision, but I believe we should also tackle the issue I brought up here some time ago, as it seem to fall in a grey are, left to interpretation.

 

[Antvasima]

Please explain/elaborate further in an easy to understand manner.

 

[SamanPatou]

We rate recovering from severe brain damage as Mid, which in our system is superior to regenerating limbs (or reattaching them) and even recovering from disembowelment and horizontal bisection.

However, it's quite common in fiction for some characters to be able to heal from bullets and other objects driven into their head (reason why they are currently have Mid regen), while being instead unable of regenerating from the aforementioned things, which in-verse are considered a more impressive feat to achieve.

A solution might be replacing "severe brain damage" with "complete/major destruction of the brain", and make lesser brain damage as a Low-Mid feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am uncertain. Further knowledgeable input would be appreciated.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

We rate recovering from severe brain damage as Mid, which in our system is superior to regenerating limbs (or reattaching them) and even recovering from disembowelment and horizontal bisection.

However, it's quite common in fiction for some characters to be able to heal from bullets and other objects driven into their head (reason why they are currently have Mid regen), while being instead unable of regenerating from the aforementioned things, which in-verse are considered a more impressive feat to achieve.

A solution might be replacing "severe brain damage" with "complete/major destruction of the brain", and make lesser brain damage as a Low-Mid feat.

I actually agree with this 100%

I'm not sure why some brain damage like a bullet to the head is considered Mid. It's not like the head gots severed from the body or blown up.

As for the OP, if the head is still considered too large to be considered usable, I have no problem with removing it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the brain is a much more complicated organ than a hand, as far as I am aware.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well, the brain is a much more complicated organ than a hand, as far as I am aware.

But to the degree where it a small knife or bullet to the head equals someone regenerating blown off limbs and being cut in half horizontal? Major damage like most of the brain being destroyed or missing is one thing, but minor damage like a small knife wound or a single bullet that barely leaves a noticeable hole doesn't seem that great in my opinion. However if the brain is just that superior than I won’t argue, I just find it weird that virtually any from of brain damage like a bullet to the head or a small knife can get you Mid but some of those same characters can't regenerate lost limbs.

So I still think SamanPatou suggested is fine but I'll wait to see what everyone else thinks.

 

[SamanPatou]

The problem is that it may be true in real life, but it is often ignored in fiction.

I honeslty could bring several examples of characters that would be able to regenerate from an headshot, but couldn't do the same with a hand, an arm or such.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, regen sometimes has weak spots in fiction. There's vampires out there who can regrow a completely destroyed head but die from a stake in the heart, it's obviously going to be inconsistent sometimes, and if it is it should be detailed in the P&A description

 

[Antvasima]

Armorchompy makes sense to me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Honestly I'm for the head thing. I know that technically the brain is more complicated but you have people go down to wounds thst they shouldn't without our assumptions regarding mid-regen. I think Low-Mid is probably a better place for it to be unless its utter brain destruction or something.

For the thread I think the only confusion regarding High-Mid is how someone may misread the commas.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I don't think the head example is bad, but it also doesn't matter whether it's there or not. It should be removed if it causes confusion. We don't lose anything by removing it anyway.

We rate recovering from severe brain damage as Mid, which in our system is superior to regenerating limbs (or reattaching them) and even recovering from disembowelment and horizontal bisection.

However, it's quite common in fiction for some characters to be able to heal from bullets and other objects driven into their head (reason why they are currently have Mid regen), while being instead unable of regenerating from the aforementioned things, which in-verse are considered a more impressive feat to achieve.

A solution might be replacing "severe brain damage" with "complete/major destruction of the brain", and make lesser brain damage as a Low-Mid feat.

I do agree with this take though.

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean, regen sometimes has weak spots in fiction. There's vampires out there who can regrow a completely destroyed head but die from a stake in the heart, it's obviously going to be inconsistent sometimes, and if it is it should be detailed in the P&A description

It depends if it's actually a weak spot or not, vampires aren't a good example, as the heart is sometimes an explicit weakness.

An example is Captain America, who doesn't have explicit weak spots, and could recover from an headshot overtime, but afaik there's no indication he could regrow arms or heal from gruesome disembowelmet or horizontal bisection.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think it's misunderstood. Mid regeneration is growing your head back after your head was severed. But regenerating the rest of your entire body when nothing but your head or brain is remaining is considered High-Mid.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Permission from saman to comment here, sorry for taking long, had work.

in my point of view, the third level of the low to high categories is always a sorta of bridge to the next one, low deals with small wounds but high-low has minor organs damage, mid deals with important damage but high-mid allows you to make a body from a tiny piece and high deals with rebuilding your body from physical elements but the higher level of high uses energy instead.

So in this case, the difference between mid and high-mid is that mid is still dealing with recreating parts while high-mid is starting to deal with rebuilding, both use heads but one recreates just the head while the other creates the body from the head.

IMO i think recreating your body from your head should be part of mid instead, but a higher form of it, after all, mid can already deal with everything from below your neck, so being reduced to a head and healing it is just a somewhat wider form of it, not something more complex, while high-mid is for the same but when the piece is even smaller and less significant.

I think making it so the brain has to be destroyed alongside the body would fit high-mid, since now you need to deal with both the loss of the brain and the organs at the same time while relying on something irrelevant to your fuctions like a toe.

Also i think minor brain damage should be on low-mid, is minor for a reason, if it doesn't affect the brain fuctions drastically like a coma or your body not fuctioning, or at least a large amount of damage is done, it should fit with the "organ healing" introduction of low-mid.

As for the low category debate, i think wounds that would normally incapacitate and kill quickly you should be low-mid, like that one vein on your neck that if cut just instakills you, while wounds that take time to kill you would be high-low, though this one seems very debatatable.

As for the "fiction inconsistency" stuff, i think weakeness about their regeneration should suffice, though that depends on if i'm allowed more comments after this one, because idk how this works exactly

 

[Antvasima]

I think it's misunderstood. Mid regeneration is growing your head back after your head was severed. But regenerating the rest of your entire body when nothing but your head or brain is remaining is considered High-Mid.

Growing a new brain seems too impressive for Mid Regeneration. I think that regenerating one's body back from only a head is what is implied, and that this is technically less impressive.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think so. That's regrowing more than 91% of your body mass, including a huge amount of nervous tissue, considering the spine has almost as much as the brain itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Perhaps both are comparable then.

 

[Armorchompy]

I believe the reason we consider the brain hard to regenerate at all is that the human body cannot regrow neural tissue at all, while it can at least attempt to regenerate any other type.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, that and that our consciousness mostly resides in our brains according to regular science.

 

[Armorchompy]

Eh, regeneration isn't a conscious act, and while I'm obviously not a biologist I believe it's handled "locally" if that makes sense, by the parts of the body near the wound.

 

[Abstractions]

We rate recovering from severe brain damage as Mid, which in our system is superior to regenerating limbs (or reattaching them) and even recovering from disembowelment and horizontal bisection.

However, it's quite common in fiction for some characters to be able to heal from bullets and other objects driven into their head (reason why they are currently have Mid regen), while being instead unable of regenerating from the aforementioned things, which in-verse are considered a more impressive feat to achieve.

A solution might be replacing "severe brain damage" with "complete/major destruction of the brain", and make lesser brain damage as a Low-Mid feat.

I've made commentary on this before and find it fine.

Regarding the rest of the thread, I don't believe I can put it into better words than it already has been explained by others. Thanks.

 

[KLOL506]

Yes, I was sort of conflicted over giving Mid regen to normal headshot wounds (Then again a large enough caliber should do tremendous damage to the brain regardless). It should be fine to give Mid regen to those that have a hefty chunk of their brains blown out tho.

Still not sure what to give regenerating from a head tho. Growing a full head from an existing body should at the very least be fine for Mid regen.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Apologies if I shouldn't be commenting here, but I have a question.

What about people who have been shown to regenerate some brain damage (Like this, bottom right), and have also shown to regrow an entire body from just a severed head? But have been stated and shown to be killed by total brain destruction.

What rating should they receive?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well to break it down

• Somethin like this, this or this where the object strikes the head but doesn't cause major head trauma shouldn't get a mid rating
• Something like this, this or this where the brain/head is critically damaged or gibbed and they heal from it should be fine for a Mid regen rating

So being shot and possibly stabbed in the head and surviving would be Low-Mid. But if the head is massively damaged, destroyed or the person is decapitated they would keep the Mid rating.

 

[KLOL506]

• Something like this, this or this where the brain/head is critically damaged or gibbed and they heal from it should be fine for a Mid regen rating

Oh yeah, I was gonna ask about how we'd treat regen for cleaving heads in half or where massive chunks of the brain fall out of one's head.

 

[Antvasima]

The last few posts seem to make sense to me.

This is just a note regarding that both Mid and High-Mid Regeneration seem to include healing from a severed head. We should probably remove it from the latter type.

Anyway, returning to my initial suggestion...

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean, healing from just a head us much better than any other Mid regen feat. The passage also mentions healing from things like a single finger or an organ.

The only confusion really is someone misunderstanding regenerating a head from your body vs regenerating your body from the head.

 

[Antvasima]

Just to remind everybody what is currently said in our Regeneration page:

Mid: The ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine.

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown / cut to pieces, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a severed head, a single organ, or a finger.

I want the "severed head" part for High-Mid to be removed.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Sorry for commenting on a second time, but thoughts on my first comment?

I think any significant damage to the brains should be mid, as in, if it realistically would've make it stop working, with minor damage being on low-mid.

 

[Antvasima]

But I think that we already use that definition.